Really digging the crosswind landings / realism. - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-23-2019, 11:44 PM   #1
FoxxyTrotty
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Default Really digging the crosswind landings / realism.

Yesterday I posted a couple points that need addressing, but this is one element of the DCS experience that is really well done, and across all the modules I have tried it in... The crosswind landings!


There's key elements here that are all simulated very well:

1) on finals, you need to "crab" or fly at an angle off centre to remain in-line, so if you're landing runway 36 with winds 270 at 18kts, (from West to east) you'll be heading/facing left some, to keep your course/track going north.

2) smoke, other AI, windsocks, even custom placed windsocks, all fly, drift, float or otherwise wave about responding to the corresponding winds.

3) when getting closer to the ground, the winds reduce somewhat due to ground clutter etc

4) to avoid excessive lateral motion on the main wheels and reduce risk of flipping over, crosswind landing is the rare exception where you get to "kick it straight" or push foot hard on the right rudder in the eg. A second or 2 before main gear touches.

5) the moment the rudder is kicked, right in this eg, the yawing motion causes the left wing to rotate forwards some, the right wing backwards some, inducing a roll to the right, this must be corrected by left stick movement (” stick into the wind")

6) ensure the flare isn't held more than a couple seconds over the runway, or aircraft will rapidly drift right, off the Centreline.

7) once the main wheels are down, the aircraft will immediately want to yaw into the wind (like the nose wheel is steering left by itself). Some people might mistakenly think the wind will continue to push the aircraft to the right, but this is opposite, because once the main wheels are down, they become the point the aircraft yaws around.
Because the rudder& tailfin is a much larger surface area than the cockpit (relative to the crosswinds) the wind here is now pushing the back of the plane right much harder, thus it twists around the main gear, hence pointing the nose to the left.

Stick Into the wind still! It's amazing DCS got this right too, even with the oldest A10C module.. the wind blowing left to right is now building up pressure under the left side wing, as it is partially trapped by the aircraft fuselage. This can easily cause the aircraft to roll/flip over to the right, in this example, as even below landing speed, with the winds/pressure under the left wing, much more lift is being generated.

9) keep dancing on the rudders and once stabilized on the roll out, gently apply wheelbrakes. Be EXTREMELY careful when re-engaging NWS, as rudder will be required all the time to stay straight.

10) finally, be especially careful exiting the runway at anything over 10kts or so, the stronger the wind, the happier it will be to help you turn off the runway, into the wind, and it will amplify your turn left, and soon you out if you let it...

DCS gets every single element right here, the crosswind landing as I've detailed out here, goes way beyond the initial crab.
Some aircraft are easier than others, while they all behave very differently, the mirage is much easier to pop a tyre, the a10, while slower and larger wings, also offers greater flight surfaces, the Russian mig15 is perhaps the most tricky alongside the Viggen.

Setting 10kts crosswind (ground) is a great starting point to see the forces in action, while 25-30kts with turbulence set to around 80-100 gives a nice challenge that is great fun and very rewarding to pull off.

Thanks for this brilliantly done element of the sim ED
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:23 AM   #2
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Unfortunately unless something changed recently you have a crazy amount of shear in DCS so while the landing mechanics are good the change in wind strength between ground level and 1000ft is a little over the top and unfortunately you can't change it.

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Old 08-24-2019, 09:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyTX View Post
Unfortunately unless something changed recently you have a crazy amount of shear in DCS so while the landing mechanics are good the change in wind strength between ground level and 1000ft is a little over the top and unfortunately you can't change it.

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What are you talking about? Of course you can change it. The wind strength and direction is a variable at multiple altitudes that are configured in the mission editor. How ''crazy'' it is is entirely up to the mission. You can set all to 0, or you can have hurricane force winds just above the ground level if you want.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:06 PM   #4
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Well the wind at 1600ft is based on the wind on the ground and they can't be changed independently. Put in a 22 it crosswind and you get 47 it's at 1600ft so a massive amount of shear that you cannot change. Try it.

And yes 0 gives you zero but try it and you will see what I mean.

Unfortunately it makes it hard to teach good crosswind landing techniques as the amount of shear is unrealistic for 98% of normally experienced conditions.

Oh and I did report it years ago but I guess like the wind direction being incorrectly reported it appears to be to tricky to correct.

Tbh there is a lot of other stuff I wish was fixed first and as we control the weather it's not that big a deal just thought I would point it out.

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Old 08-25-2019, 04:47 PM   #5
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Ah, I see
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:31 PM   #6
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Agree...they did a great job with crosswind landings. I jumped in another civilian Sim recently with reportedly the best,most realistic flight modelling, and the crosswind modelling flying the default Cessna was aweful.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:08 AM   #7
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+1 on that

It is strange how they made it impossible to edit wind at 1600

The transition from crabbing to straight just before touch down works pretty good (provided the rudders are calibrated properly... which mine aren't)

I made this clip for a different purpose, testing ATC in Powered Approach mode. I was checking if ED "secretly" fixed it but... it's still a mess There was a substantial crosswind during the test and it shows my attempt at straight in approach and transition to landing.


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Old 08-26-2019, 03:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxxyTrotty View Post
3) when getting closer to the ground, the winds reduce somewhat

4) to avoid excessive lateral motion on the main wheels and reduce risk of flipping over, crosswind landing is the rare exception where you get to "kick it straight"
3) As others have mentioned already, unfortunately the wind speed reduction due to the boundary layer is way overdone.

4) Especially in DCS it's important to note that there are aircraft which must be landed in full crab, e.g. the F-5 and the F-15. In the F/A-18 you should touch down with half the crab angle.

That said, I don't know which other simulators don't simulate crosswind similarly realistic.

Last edited by bbrz; 08-26-2019 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:11 AM   #9
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Especially in DCS it's important to note that there are aircraft which must be landed in full crab, e.g. the F-5 and the F-15. In the F/A-18 you should touch down with half the crab angle.

Where is this info from ? While you can land a T38 in a partial crab that was not the desired technique. We always kicked it straight in the flare.

Never flown an aircraft that is landed without either kicking it straight or side slipping it straight at least partially.



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Old 08-26-2019, 04:12 AM   #10
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MiG-29 is also able to land in crab per manual
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