Jump to content

Feature Request: Realistic Mustang Start-up Dynamics


Magic Zach

Recommended Posts

OK. You wanted it, I will show it.

Here is an old Fw190D9 beeing started. At the end there are old P-51's beeing started. Skip to 6:37 to see the Mustangs turn their engines on. Notice the second Mustang.


Edited by Solty

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK. You wanted it, I will show it.

Here is an old Fw190D9 beeing started. At the end there are old P-51's beeing started. Skip to 6:37 to see the Mustangs turn their engines on. Notice the second Mustang.

Okay? Noticed? I don't recall asking for a 190 start video, but thanks for your contribution! :) I'll put up videos of other FW190D9s and some BF109K4s starting that I can find.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay? Noticed? I don't recall asking for a 190 start video, but thanks for your contribution! :) I'll put up videos of other FW190D9s and some BF109K4s starting that I can find.

Ehhhhhhh. Can you read? At the end you have 2xP-51D turning their engines on. It takes them a second and with no hiccups.:mad:


Edited by Solty

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ehhhhhhh. Can you read? At the end you have 2xP-51D turning their engines. It takes them a second and with no hiccups.:mad:
That's a stupid question. Obviously I can read, as otherwise I would not be here. :) Watch your salt.

The first Mustang did take a moment to turn over. The second was smooth. As I said in the original post, not all startups are rough, and that should be represented in DCS as well. This suggests that engine condition should vary from aircraft to aircraft. I'm actually starting to agree with the slider option for the engine's condition.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have no idea if the Mustangs were warmed up. Also, the air temp has a lot to do with how quick it smooths out. I know my buddies Mustang sputters and coughs when it stone cold.
I just ran a test in DCS 1.5.7. I took a Mustang, and used these air temperatures: 20C/68F, 35C/94F, and -40C/-40F. There was NO wind for any of these tests.

For ALL three of these temperatures, the coolant and carburetor reflected the same temperature as the air. The oil did as well, but the gauge hits its bottom at 0C, but we can assume the actual oil was also the same as the air temperature. If the air temp was 20C, so was the carb, coolant and oil gauge. We can dismiss the idea that the DCS: P-51D Mustang is warmed up when spawned in.

 

-40C took a bit of effort. The engine would slowly start to catch, instead of instantly catching. It took about 6 seconds for it to wind up to idle. I find it amusing, yet not surprising that I was contrailing at sea level. I wonder what taildragger pilots near my local airport think of winter, as we can hit those low temperatures.

20C was quick as a snap, just like any other time the DCS: Mustang is started.

35C felt no different than 20C.


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

We cheat a little bit and stated it, as the Mustang was released: at low temperatures the oil is pre-diluted. You can try start the engine at very low temperature, warm it up, fly for 10-20 minutes at maximal power, land and then leave the plane with stopped engine for an hour...

 

And for the second time you can dilute the oil for the next start-up.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there any chance that these start up effects and dynamics will be added to DCS in the future? I can only imagine that if it was then it would be after 2.5.


Edited by Magic Zach
Typo

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

We still alive here?d73733cb8c6100a00d05e1fc132beb89.jpg

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Another one:

 

Skip to 2:35. Or watch the entire video because the Mustang is beautiful, after all. This was at a show, and it was a hot start, but either way...:


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

If the dynamics won't be changed, maybe the sounds can.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/17758532448?view=permalink&id=10155300822962449

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one thing that has always bugged me, is that while starting, the propeller turns way too fast before any cylinders are firing.

 

In all the videos I've seen, both old and new, the propeller doesn't go over about 60-80 RPM untill cylinders start to fire. Then speed picks up in accordance with the number of firing cylinders.

 

Try turning over the Merlin with the fuel pump off and the magnetos both off. The propeller runs away at about 200-300 RPM, maybe faster.

 

You are supposed to turn the propeller 3 blades minimum before ignition, so before either magneto is on. As far as I know, during the war, this was done by hand. In a modern video, I've never seen a P-51 have its propeller turned by hand. I'm guessing that all the starters are modern these days, and can take a lot more turning before burning out. Our manual says 20-30 seconds.

 

So my start-up procedure is:

Breaks: parking, on

Fuel cock: open

Battery: on

Generator: on

Prop-RPM: 3000

Throttle: 'cracked' 1"

Fuel pump: on

Magnetos: off for now

Starter: on (count blades 1-2-3: <== from here on, even before any

- - cylinders could fire, the propeller is way too fast

- - magnetos: both on

- - primer: on (count 1-2)

- - primer: off

- - - allow engine to turn until it fires up, or 20 seconds, but it almost

- - - always fires by the time I release the primer, with few exceptions

 

It's minor, but it kind of feels *blähhh* :ermm:

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one thing that has always bugged me, is that while starting, the propeller turns way too fast before any cylinders are firing.

 

In all the videos I've seen, both old and new, the propeller doesn't go over about 60-80 RPM untill cylinders start to fire. Then speed picks up in accordance with the number of firing cylinders.

Never noticed it before, but now that I think about it, it does seem to be something that's out of place.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

This is still something my fingers are crossed for. Would be beautiful to have these dynamics.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Smoke (and flames) are missing, that's more of a visual, but I still want them down the road.

Even in this video, he is managing the engine as he turns it over, and a bit after, something that isn't required in DCS. In DCS, as soon as you knock the mixture to run, it runs smooth, even from a cold start. No management required. The times it takes to start up is always linear. I've watched Kermits startup in the C and D, and in 80% of the cold startup videos I've seen (not just Kermit), the engines do not run smoothly right from the get-go like in DCS. There are some, but are few and far between.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not an expert, I am merely making an observation of real life, versus experience in the simulator. The motions and timing I've seen in reality (both pilot actions, and engine) are not something I have needed to replicate in the simulator.

I am extremely positive that if I use the same structure for starting up (by the ED manual) that I use for a real life Mustang, I will not get it to catch, or it will catch, sputter, then die.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smoke (and flames) are missing, that's more of a visual, but I still want them down the road.

Even in this video, he is managing the engine as he turns it over, and a bit after, something that isn't required in DCS. In DCS, as soon as you knock the mixture to run, it runs smooth, even from a cold start. No management required. The times it takes to start up is always linear. I've watched Kermits startup in the C and D, and in 80% of the cold startup videos I've seen (not just Kermit), the engines do not run smoothly right from the get-go like in DCS. There are some, but are few and far between.

Flames means overprimed and AFAIK it's a feature for Spitfire Merlin and later added to P-51 IIRC. As I don't usually overprime don't recall seeying it :lol: .

 

 

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, flames flames are just for the Spitfire atm.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...