ED Team NineLine Posted August 29, 2017 ED Team Share Posted August 29, 2017 You should check and see if you had the assists on for the TF. There is nothing wrong with the P-51D currently. As for you last sentence. 1.10 Product feedback and constructive criticism is encouraged when provided in a mature and courteous manner. However, feedback that is abusive, insulting or condescending is not welcome. Additionally, to bring up a particular issue repeatedly after it has already been acknowledged will be considered "trolling" - in such cases a warning will be issued to the author and the post will be removed. Keep it mature and constructive. Next time will end in warning points. I have to agree with Chuck. Just downloaded the P51 today after enjoying the TF51 for awhile and wanting guns. The flight model appears to be bugged... thought it was me so..... Set, checked and rechecked my control axes. No duplications. Set no weapons, just .50 cal at 50% Set fuel load at 50% Altitude 1500ft or so. Typical Normandy sunny day. That thing would barely take of from the runway, while the rudder is stupidly and hugely sensitive. Very hard to lift the nose, resulting in a bouncing takeoff. In the air the thing does not seem to want to go faster than maybe 220mph, despite 5 inches and 2750 rpm. Very poor response in pitch, it just mushes and I have mushed into the ground more than once. It tip stalls like crazy and adverse aileron yaw is brutal, even at moderate control inputs; leading to snap rolls in the opposite direction. The CofG appears to be somewhere far forward and despite the settings, it behaves like it's way overloaded. Considering I gave been flying the TF all weekend with full fuel in the mains quite happily then jumping into the lightly loaded P51 and found it barely controllable, something is going wrong with recent downloads, maybe something became corrupted at ED, or someone's torrent is corrupted. Mods this needs reporting. The flight model is crap. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 No reporting is needed. You've done something wrong. That's not how the DCS P-51 flys. Yes, the P-51 flies exactly how it's described in the manuals and seen on videos, not to mention pilot accounts from WW2. What controllers do you have? Stick, pedals, throttle? FFB? I recommend you use curves, around 15 %, maybe eve 20 for the rudder. Again, this depends on your controllers. Do you have the trim set properly? +2 nose down, 5 degrees right rudder? Flaps up? 3000 RPM and slowly accelerate to 46-52 inches. Make sure you have " takeoff assistance" turned off too. DCS is a high fidelity sim, one has a steep learning curve moving from type to type, let alone from another sim to this one. Do you expect flying the real P-51 would be easy? Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 There's your problem right there. You aren't supposed to eat it. :) I have to agree with Chuck. Just downloaded the P51 today after enjoying the TF51 for awhile and wanting guns. The flight model appears to be bugged... thought it was me so..... Set, checked and rechecked my control axes. No duplications. Set no weapons, just .50 cal at 50% Set fuel load at 50% Altitude 1500ft or so. Typical Normandy sunny day. That thing would barely take of from the runway, while the rudder is stupidly and hugely sensitive. Very hard to lift the nose, resulting in a bouncing takeoff. In the air the thing does not seem to want to go faster than maybe 220mph, despite 5 inches and 2750 rpm. Very poor response in pitch, it just mushes and I have mushed into the ground more than once. It tip stalls like crazy and adverse aileron yaw is brutal, even at moderate control inputs; leading to snap rolls in the opposite direction. The CofG appears to be somewhere far forward and despite the settings, it behaves like it's way overloaded. Considering I gave been flying the TF all weekend with full fuel in the mains quite happily then jumping into the lightly loaded P51 and found it barely controllable, something is going wrong with recent downloads, maybe something became corrupted at ED, or someone's torrent is corrupted. Mods this needs reporting. The flight model is crap. You have one very wrong assumption right there. TF-51 50% =/= P-51D 50% P-51D as a feuselage tank. That allows for more fuel. That tank is not present in TF-51. Not to mention guns and ammo weight. Take off only on 3000rpm. As long as you are climbing right after takeoff don't go low rpm. Only when you get some altitude and speed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Tako Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) This is a VERY long movie but in the beginning you can see that taking off is not a particular problem (but it took me several days to learn it though...a long time ago). And trying some low speed maneuvering is not a problem either. So there's nothing wrong with my flight model, it handles as it's always been handling. What it all comes down to is (just like somebody already mentioned), to learn HANDLING. At low speeds. For this particular flight, I don't bother with any trim or RPM-fiddling. You can fly for hours on end at full RPM as long as you manage throttle/watch the engine gauges and thus don't totally over-abuse it. To conclude: I'd be the last person to claim I know the Mustang systems and what's "right", "by the book" etc but I DO know how it handles. Edited August 29, 2017 by SFC Tako My Semi-Pro Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowTiger Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Like SFC Taco (and probably MANY others), it took me a few days of tearing up the runway before I was able to get the Mustang in the Air. It's like trying to learn to Hover with the Huey (or any other Rotary Aircraft for the first time). It takes time and practice but then it's like riding a bike ... same same. Tinkickef, if you wish to PM me, I'll gladly spend some time with you to help you get off the ground and back safely. I had to have help and I'm glad I asked (Thank you Shahdoh). Please also make sure your Hotas Preferences are set up properly and consistently for the SIM version for BOTH P-51 and TF-51. Each has to be customized/set up. They should be the same (IMO). Again, if you like, just PM me and I'll hook up with you on any Server you like (DCS 1.5 please), any time you like. Who knows, with the right couple of comments, something might take hold and you'll be flying like a champ in an hour or two. SnowTiger:joystick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkickef Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Thanks guys. I guess I let my frustration show through. Allow me to explain...... After the frustrations of setting all the control bindings, testing them, resetting them / inverting axes, having Normandy doing its crash on exiting missions thing to get to the main settings / mission editor panels and having to be restarted several times, and an odd thing whereby the fly again button meant that the lighting got progressively darker each mission, until it after 3 attempts it was black, and once again Normandy had to be restarted, my patience was about up. This frustration made me quick to wade into this thread to put my tuppence in without a little more research. Don't understand Siths bit about disrespect though, must be a difference in culture and normal use of language thing, it was certainly not intended. I found the TF an absolute delight to fly and expected essentially more of the same with the P51, I have only had an hour to mess with it inc control setup and rarely find time during the working week to use DCS. To my disappointment it wasn't the same..... However, thanks to someone mentioning the fuselage tank, I had a good read of the manual and found that it warned against any attempt at heavy manoeuvring while it had any significant fuel in it. It says the aircraft may readily depart from controlled flight if so. This may have been the problem. Also, never checked the TF "assists" as I didn't know they existed, just used it in plain vanilla sim mode, certainly never switched them on. Maybe they are on as default? With the OPs obvious recent download and reporting of handling problems, and the negative behaviour in handling I encountered from what appears to be essentially the same airframe,it was easy to jump to the conclusion that something has gone awry with recent downloads. I will persevere with it, as the 51 in conjunction with Rift and buttkicker really does gives the best sensation of reality of all the modules I have, huey included. I doubt I will find the time to fire up DCS again before the weekend, so forgive my ignorance. Is there any way to prohibit the fuze tank getting fuelled? I don't do missions long enough to need it and it just seems a pain in the handling to have fuel in there. Otherwise I will just have to go train busting until it has burned off. Someone asked what controls am I using... TM Warthog hotas with 10cm extension and MFG Crosswind pedals. Don't use curves. Edited August 30, 2017 by Tinkickef System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Try to set your stick curves to 10 and rudder to 20 and see if it feels better. A 10 cm extension is good, but not as long as the real thing. Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 30, 2017 ED Team Share Posted August 30, 2017 Don't understand Siths bit about disrespect though, must be a difference in culture and normal use of language thing, it was certainly not intended. It is not socially acceptable to call someones hard work "crap" in most cultures and languages, especially when not doing your research or looking at what you yourself might be doing wrong. If I replied to you and simply said you were a "crap" virtual pilot, how would that have made you feel? Its disrespectful and rude. Hope that makes sense now. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Also, never checked the TF "assists" as I didn't know they existed, just used it in plain vanilla sim mode, certainly never switched them on. Maybe they are on as default? Most of assists of every module (and all of them for prop planes) are ON by default for every module, right after installing it, or after the recommended deleting of options.lua file and allowing the game to rebuild a new one. Also, some folks report the assists like to reset themselves every now and then after game updates. All and all, that's the first thing you should double check after installing every patch. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkickef Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) It is not socially acceptable to call someones hard work "crap" in most cultures and languages, especially when not doing your research or looking at what you yourself might be doing wrong. If I replied to you and simply said you were a "crap" virtual pilot, how would that have made you feel? Its disrespectful and rude. Hope that makes sense now. Sith. I was trying to eat humble pie. I was wrong in my actions when jumping to conclusions, and admitted it in the previous post. Unfortunately you have not understood, or chosen to not understand what I actually meant when I referred to the flight model as crap. I am sorry if I caused offence, however if you care to look back at the post in question, I waffled on at length about the possibility of a corrupted file causing the OPs problem and mine esp with the divergence from the handling of another mustang. In other words, I was not saying that the ED Devs work was crap, but rather that maybe a faulty upload or torrent made it so and requested that it should be reported and looked into. This is something completely different to what you allude to. Edited August 30, 2017 by Tinkickef System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkickef Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Most of assists of every module (and all of them for prop planes) are ON by default for every module, right after installing it, or after the recommended deleting of options.lua file and allowing the game to rebuild a new one. Also, some folks report the assists like to reset themselves every now and then after game updates. All and all, that's the first thing you should double check after installing every patch. Thanks for the reply Art. Where are these"Assists" at? I double checked all my aircraft under all the GUI panels and all I could see where these assists might possibly be was Game or Sim in the panel called gameplay, whereby all my aircraft are in Sim Mode and had no boxes checked except the one detailing F10 map. I am not super PC savvy and tend to avoid opening files and messing about round the back. If it's not on the GUI, I have no idea and would have thought something that affected the ease of the way the model flies away from reality should be very prominent. Edited August 30, 2017 by Tinkickef System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 It's under options>special>P-51. There is an "Auto Rudder" checkbox and a "Takeoff Assistance" slider 0-100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkickef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) It's under options>special>P-51. There is an "Auto Rudder" checkbox and a "Takeoff Assistance" slider 0-100. Thanks Frederf. I'll take a look at the weekend when I have time to fire up DCS and if it is on, turn the thing off and let the games begin...... I will be disappointed if the Hog, Tiger and Huey also have these assists on, after all I thought I was a steely eyed missile man, and to find out the PC was doing most of the work all along...... Is there a way to avoid the fuselage tank getting filled? Edited August 31, 2017 by Tinkickef System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Feuselage tank fillls up after wing tanks. If I remember correctly everything above 68% is going to the feuselage. One more thing. For most missions you do not need so much fuel. With full fuel tanks and drop tanks Mustang is capable of 8h of flight. Take 30% for most multiplayer missions. That will last for about 40min of low altitude flying. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromhunt Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 How many of you,all of you,are flying a real P51D? How many of you,all of you ,were pilots of P51D in WW2? Books,books and books references...let it be Say that friendly,buddies keep calm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkickef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) Feuselage tank fillls up after wing tanks. If I remember correctly everything above 68% is going to the feuselage. One more thing. For most missions you do not need so much fuel. With full fuel tanks and drop tanks Mustang is capable of 8h of flight. Take 30% for most multiplayer missions. That will last for about 40min of low altitude flying. Thanks Solty. Will give it a try. Edit: Managed to get on DCS this afternoon. Have a fuel load where I have around 60 galls in the wings and zero in the fuze tank. All assists are off and the Stang is transformed! Dunno what the assists do, but I certainly found taking off far easier without it. A bit of right rudder trim and she lifts off nice and easy without all the shimmying, tyre squealing drama that dogged my previous takeoffs. First try was a crash and burn mind, too much MP too soon had a wingtip scraping the runway and a graceful curve right into the path of a Bofors AA gun. 2nd and 3rd attempts were far better with a max boost of 45 inches by mid runway and 3000rpm. I found I could get a full 60 inches of boost as well now, when IIRC, last weekend, I could only get 50 inches. Need to ease myself into it and play with stuff, but I think I may just be able to get along with it after all. Thanks for the tips guys. You transformed my experience. If you love the Stang, or any piston engined plane, I recommend you get the Buttkicker esp in VR. When that Merlin lights off and the reduction gear is all clattering and banging, the sensation of reality is err well unreal as you shake rattle and roll in your seat. Edited September 1, 2017 by Tinkickef System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirlaway Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Currently, this sim IS quite inedible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted September 18, 2017 ED Team Share Posted September 18, 2017 I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Currently, this sim IS quite inedible. Little hot sauce always helps. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandacat Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 If you have difficulty flying DCS p51, most likely the problem lies with you setup or gears. I have come the way you are on right now. WWII planes are inherently more difficult to fly and have steeper learning curves cuz no computers can take care of this or that for you. Start with response curve setups. Check forum, there are many good suggestions. Also, good hotas matters. My old x52pro just won't cut it sometimes compared to Warthog, which has more precision. After that, practice practice and practice. American planes are powerful but need a lot of training. Lastly, make sure you don't take full fuel out on your flight. Nobody needs fully fueled mustang, which can fly for 1000 miles, for some local missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap_Chop Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 As the pilot climbed out of the aircraft witnesses say he exclaimed loudly "THIS PLANE IS CRAP !!" He then pushed a young airmen out of his way and stomped off to the pilots lounge. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotTom Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Ha! That's the next mod -- ground crew picking pieces! Gawkers hanging around with hands in pockets. :-) Exceptional engineering...and a large hammer to make it fit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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