How do you lure your prey?

No what it means is most of you dont know how to fight in a p51 and just making excuses

:thumbup:

An exceptional pilot can make an inferior fighter do well, when faced with less proficient pilots. That doesn't make the aircraft an equal to its opponent fighter. You who are making that fallacy should know this.

Exactly.

An exceptional pilot can make an inferior fighter do well, when faced with less proficient pilots. That doesn't make the aircraft an equal to its opponent fighter. You who are making that fallacy should know this.

Now lets extrapolate this.

Im going to use the p51 and k4 as my plane examples and you and Tecnam as my pilots. I would not say the p51 is inferior as a plane. They both have strengths and weaknesses.

For example turning low speed K4 better

Turning high speed 51 better

Fighting deck against k4 is very hard but as you start going above 26k the 51 will start being superior.

The plane will only be able to do what physics allow. Yes a better pilot will obviously be able to fly that plane closer to its limits.

So clearly Tecnam can do this and as a result does well in the combat environment with the 51 against the 109 and 190.

You fly exactly the same p51 that he does. If you cant admit that maybe you just need to get better, what is it exactly that you think you need to be successful against the axis planes like he is?

"I'd love to know why the P-51 struggles......"

Um, stay high and stay fast? That's part of how they survived in WWII in a lot of US planes. It doesn't struggle, there is just a way to fly it and succeed, and a way to fly it and get shot down a lot.

"I'd love to know why the P-51 struggles......"

 

Um, stay high and stay fast? That's part of how they survived in WWII in a lot of US planes. It doesn't struggle, there is just a way to fly it and succeed, and a way to fly it and get shot down a lot.

I tried to explain that a long time ago, but they want a different answer.

Maybe if I said.........turn tighter and blast them! They'd like it better.

You fly exactly the same p51 that he does. If you cant admit that maybe you just need to get better, what is it exactly that you think you need to be successful against the axis planes like he is?

Excuse me? That's three incorrect & baseless assumptions/accusations you've just made about/against me. Please refrain from this poor behavior in the future.

This is way off topic.. instead of arguing 'who's better', the more experienced pilots should explain to the 'novice' ones some good tactics against the 109 and 190. And then we can argue on those tactics.. Sounds sane?

Excuse me? That's three incorrect & baseless assumptions/accusations you've just made about/against me. Please refrain from this poor behavior in the future.

So whats wrong with the P51?

Do a search. It's been discussed to death, undeath, etc.

And i put it down to im not very good, change something to help me win.

I want a quick bullet point what you personally think is wrong with 51

Just had a quick flick through this thread and i will say that most of what i am reading is lack of experience and ability.

I fly the p51, not my best aircraft but i dont experience half the i cant defeat the 109 scenarios that have been mentioned. Desicion making his a huge factor and knowing what to do.

There is a video where i happened to be in a 4 ship and got to fly Tecnams wing. We fought 3 109's and 190's deck. All 4 were destroyed. I even managed to defeat a 109 defensive on the deck.

The K4 is a powerful machine and easy to fight in. But it has its weaknesses. 72" wont make things easier for anyone if your still making the wrong choices in combat.

I will try and dig the video up recorded by someone else. We all fly the same p51 in the sim. If its purely down to the 'inferior' plane then we all should struggle against good 109 pilots. Guess what, some of us dont.

I dont want this post to sound conceited, so i invite anybody to come onto ACG TS and fly with myself and Tecnam.

I love the P-51 and don't find a thing wrong with it. If they want to give it more MP fine. I doubt it will change much.

I'll fly the P-51 until we get the P-47. It's the only plane that I might like more. Maybe. Ok, i'll fly them both for different type missions.

Buzz is hitting in spot on. Look, the Mustang in real life was a turn fighter sorta. With combat flaps at high speed it could get around on a 109 or 190. At low speed the 109 has the advantage (depending on altitude), it has leading edge slats and didn't have the nasty wing snap that Mustang had; it did better vs 190 because the 190 had the same nasty habit, but more exaggerated.

To succeed in a Mustang you need to stay above the competition, and stay faster. You boom and zoom the enemy to death. If you can pair up with another pilot and use US Navy style 2 person bully tactics then you'll do even better.

There's two critical things missing from the equation that cannot be replicated here in a MP server:

1) by the time the represented module came to the fight the Luftwaffe was hurting for experienced pilots. Average newbies went into combat with 13 hours of flight time, compared to roughly 280 as a new Mustang pilot.

2) By the time the represented module came to the fight it enjoyed a 4 or 5 to 1 numerical advantage.

Those two reasons are a large part of why this plane was so successful. It was a fantastic airplane for sure, but vs a 109 in the hands of a veteran a Mustang pilot had his hands full, and if you read enough books you will see that repeated over and over.

Bouncing back to the original topic, I tried this descending scissors with a 109 on the RAF server. AI skill was medium-high. Started out at 360MPH or so, with the 109 behind me. About 16,000ft. Started diving, he followed suit. I pulled right, then snapped left and began the scissors. After 2 passes, I had pulled behind him. Fired a burst, missed (I think). He broke away and did a split-s. I climbed back up. Upon breaking low though, he apparently attracted 2 Spitfires and a Mustang, and they tore him to pieces before I could do anything.

Now this could be applied to a DCS 109 pilot that is "in the zone", or I like to call iron-gripping the stick, or not that experienced in the 109. Experienced...eh. I am not one, so I suppose break away after the first couple turns and start climbing. At that point I can dive away to flak, climb and restart.

You're stubborn. Your above method will only work against the inexperienced. Whether AI or human. Why even fool with it?

Practice what will make you a winner. Make believe you only have one life to give.

You're stubborn. Your above method will only work against the inexperienced. Whether AI or human. Why even fool with it?

 

Practice what will make you a winner. Make believe you only have one life to give.

Please, enough with your insults, attitude, and degrading comments. I did not create this thread to be a screaming match. I realize that you mean good, but it's not doing any good for the purpose of this thread.

The 109 came up to me, not vice versa. I was having trouble spotting anything against the ground (it was dawn, was relying on spotting reflections off aircraft). I couldn't out climb and make him stall, because at that point the 109 had been on me for a while. I heard him but couldn't see him, and he was too far for my tail warning to set off. Besides, if I simply dived away, I would gain some distance between us, but not a whole lot. With the scissors, he broke off. I could have also dived away after that point, and it would put a whole lot more distance between me and it. So the scissors can be used offensively and defensively. So when I climbed back up, I could have also continued for the base. But that was my decision. At the time, it looked like a good option to climb as the 109 had dived.

You could try going higher. If he's stupid enough to come up to you, you'll have the advantage. The P-51 was made for high altitude and performs better there.

I didn't realize being stubborn was an insult. You're a virtual fighter pilot. You should have thick skin.

Really it's a matter of what you're comfy doing. There are best practices for each aircraft, like high altitude b&z in the Mustang, but the plane will mix it up in the right hands. Once you gain confidence in just flying the plane and monitoring systems becomes second nature you will inevitably start trying different maneuvers to see what works for you.

As above he was posting a technique that worked for him, so it adds another trick to add to someone's bag. The only one trick pony that I know of who succeeded in WWII was....wait a minute, there wasn't one. I hate to choose a side here, but you can't bash/badger/be stubborn about someone offering up something that works for him. Now whoever read the previous page has two things to try, when one stops working switch and see if you get a result. It's how all of us learn what works for each of us individually.

Personally I stick to B&Z with this plane, but there are things to watch, like going too fast and pulling wings off. Stay in that 300-350 range so you can use your energy to get back upstairs. If you see "low hanging fruit" look around real good, then attack, keep your speed up still. Everyone going slow will out turn you, but every time they do they lose energy, speed, or altitude (sometimes all three at once!!), and eventually they will have nowhere to go but out in front of your guns. Also if they keep turning it's fine, climb up, look around to make sure you aren't about to get busted, then head back down. By maintaining your speed you will always have an escape route from the guy you are after. Reset, rinse, repeat......

If I find myself starting to get low and slow I disengage towards safety and get myself back up to a good altitude. Low and slow is no place to fool around in a Mustang.

~Rob

"I'd love to know why the P-51 struggles......"

 

Um, stay high and stay fast? That's part of how they survived in WWII in a lot of US planes. It doesn't struggle, there is just a way to fly it and succeed, and a way to fly it and get shot down a lot.

Ah, now we get back to the beginning of this thread.

I say: Stay high (30,000 feet or more) and all the online gangbangers and air quakers whine they don't have the time (read "patience") to climb that high and there's no one to fight up there (because no one else has the patience either).

So, we get back to simmers and gamers and then we go round and round and round again and again and again.

The problem here is many (most) of the posts are coming from MP pilots (gamers) and some from SP pilots (simmers) and we just aren't ever going to agree. :(

I think we've kinda exhausted this topic. Did we answer your question in your initial post, Magic?

MP will always be like... MP are.

Good luck Magic.

Nowadays, I load up 45% fuel, climb, and wait. Watching as best as my blind self can as I do so.

And, yeah, my best engagements are B&Z. As he's going up, I'm head down fast and his distance perception gets blown to pieces. I'm beginning to think that a lot of the better Krauts are too used to maneuvering in close quarters... or starting from above. Perhaps the Mustang pilots oughta say, "to Hell with all a y'all... come up and play. If they were all above 25K, things would get more interesting. Might bag a few Jerrys on their way home because NO FUEL. Might bag a few coming up to meet ya because they're slow and you cna pick the angle. Might bag a few staying fast. Might get home alive because you have altitude to trade for speed and distance....

I dunno. Just say SCREW IT and stay high. Besides, when the Forts get to be more present in server missions, there will be a reason for the Stang to exists in the first place. Come and get 'em, Jerry. You don't, we bomb the hell out of your frau's garden. You do, and we chew on your tail.

MP will always be like... MP are.

Good luck Magic.

LOL! Luv it!

Hiya, Demon! :lol:

I was surprised by how accurate this is to this thread. :D

MP will always be like... MP are.

Good luck Magic.

LOL...Perfect!

That's just mint!!!!!