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Old 02-21-2018, 06:03 PM   #61
SVTONY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkthunder View Post
I agree, but I think they should be held accountable for selling a product that was never finished.
In most industries this is a breach of contract. We should start to take these things more seriously if we want to encourage more quality in 3rd party offerings. These are actual registered companies, and should be held accountable for what they sell, just as anybody else does.
Voting with our wallets is one thing, but if you're advertising something as "the most realistic etc..." and then produce a beta that never gets finished, a refund is in order.
We have not bought into a kickstarter campaign, where you bet on a project knowing that your money could be lost / wasted. We bought an early access product that by all means should have been finalized.

This kind of business practice really stinks.
I'm really having a hard time understanding what exactly about the Mig-21 isn't "finished" and how you can reach such a conclusion. The Mig-21 is getting updated where it needs to, in order to keep pace with developments in the sim and squash the bugs that appear with each new version. There is nothing, literally nothing so broken about the Mig-21 that this aircraft can not be used in the sim or enjoyed. I use it every other day in the sim and I have pretty high standards for what I pay for in DCS. I do not understand how you can reach such a conclusion.

You are putting the Mig on the same level as the current status of the Hawk, a module literally unusable, which is a fallacy. Your post doesn't just do the developers an injustice, it does customers that might be interested in it an injustice. If I had never purchased this module and I read this on the forum I would be concerned about spending money on it, which no one should be.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:05 PM   #62
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SVTONY, you're presenting your opinion as a fact. You have every right to enjoy the module, and I hope you do.

But please respect the opinion of others, that had bought a full-fidelity sim for a lot of money and feel screwed by what they currently have.
Myself and a lot of other users would've never bought the MiG-21 if they knew that this would be the current and final state,well over 3 and a half years after beta release!
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:07 PM   #63
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2.5 is a turn point for DCS. From now on a lot of things are more clear from development point of view. This does not mean is final... DCS is a living beast and it transforms itself in time.

Most of developers, if not all 3rd parties were waiting for some final tools and procedures to finalize their work. I think that starting from now they will need roughly 1 year to conclude their modules.

DCS as it is right now offers enough variety to keep us busy for this year. Also I think that is important to stop bullying the devs and give them some credit for their work and dedication.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:19 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent90 View Post
SVTONY, you're presenting your opinion as a fact. You have every right to enjoy the module, and I hope you do.

But please respect the opinion of others, that had bought a full-fidelity sim for a lot of money and feel screwed by what they currently have.
Myself and a lot of other users would've never bought the MiG-21 if they knew that this would be the current and final state,well over 3 and a half years after beta release!
I do respect the opinions expressed. As an owner of the Hawk, I just think it's overblown compared to reality. I don't think some owners understand how less broken the Mig is compared to some other modules possibly.

If I may ask, what are the problems with the Mig you are having that you feel haven't been addressed? I'm asking because I don't see what others are seeing and maybe I missed something.

Last edited by SVTONY; 02-21-2018 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:29 PM   #65
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i did a small list on this a while back, although it is by no means extensive (for example, I forgot mentioning the weird SPO behavior)
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...9&postcount=77

For the extensive list, scrolling through the posted issues in the Leatherneck bug tracker should be sufficient: https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.io , although some are more important than others
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:14 AM   #66
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I have the Mig 21 since about 3 years and flew about 100 hours (must look in my logbook and will with an edit give the exact data) and enjoyed her a lot: trained to navigate and RTB in bad weather conditions.
Now I payed maybe Eur 40,-- for her, so I think that the cost was about Eur 0,40 / hour: surely nothing to complain

Now I understand, that there are still some issues and I read that the devs are working on it.
But then that complaining of these customers who payed some money (sure not that much) and are going to bash the devs and that bashing get worse all the time: I HATE IT!
Must be very demotivating for the devs!

To the devs: I thank you for developing the Mig 21: she is a fantastic aircraft and I have enjoyed her a lot and hope to do that some more in the future
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:31 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LupinYonder View Post
Not only that but on the Cold war server vs the Tiger, you regularly see over 20 players flying the Mig. That has to make it one of the most popular MP modules at the moment.
Popular for a reason. People, including myself are happy with the module.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:38 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavn View Post
I have the Mig 21 since about 3 years and flew about 100 hours (must look in my logbook and will with an edit give the exact data) and enjoyed her a lot: trained to navigate and RTB in bad weather conditions.
Now I payed maybe Eur 40,-- for her, so I think that the cost was about Eur 0,40 / hour: surely nothing to complain

Now I understand, that there are still some issues and I read that the devs are working on it.
But then that complaining of these customers who payed some money (sure not that much) and are going to bash the devs and that bashing get worse all the time: I HATE IT!
Must be very demotivating for the devs!

To the devs: I thank you for developing the Mig 21: she is a fantastic aircraft and I have enjoyed her a lot and hope to do that some more in the future
Well said
Everyone can find out by going into multi-player server browser that cold war, Mig-21 and F-5 server is constantly in top 5 if not 3 of most most populated servers (after 104th server, BF and free flight, aerobatics server). It is like this since a long time, even before Viggen and Harrier had been added. Surelly MiG-21 gained it's popularity thanks to being utterly broken and rotten with bugs module

Some people are really exaggerating. There really should be a way on the forum to red flag statements like this :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Bridges View Post
Well the good thing is once the Mig-19 comes out, I can delete this module.
Such statements are clearly giving impression to stay away from the module. It's easy to write crap on the forum but think that this will drive some potentiall customer away from purchassing the module - directly affecting developpers revenues and maybe even the stability.
Guess what: go to to bug, to do list for some other modules - assuming that they are even pulicly available to begin with. Maybe that'll be a bucket of cold water that will bring you back to the reality

MiG-21 is a great module, absolutelly funcional and usable. It's also one of the most fun to fly . Yes, there are some bugs but none are show-stoppers. Also comparing to other DCS modules there is nothing that would make MiG-21 particullary outsanding from the average in a negative way. Countrary, considering average state of modules in DCS MiG-21 is one of the more complete ones.

I think a lot of people are giving M3 a hard time right now due to the announcement of the CE. But that's purelly not fair
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:01 AM   #69
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I support the game, it's actually a very expensive game. But not people who sell me broken stuff.

And at the end of the day none of this makes sense. Stuff like giving the Mig-21 a set of individual sound files could take no longer than a day.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:14 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Bridges View Post
I support the game, it's actually a very expensive game. But not people who sell me broken stuff.

And at the end of the day none of this makes sense. Stuff like giving the Mig-21 a set of individual sound files could take no longer than a day.
The MiG-21 is hardly "broken" though.

You can start the bird up, take off, navigate with the working on board equipment, fire the working ordinance and land with working landing gear and slow down with a working parachute.

The only thing I can think of that's truly broken is the cockpit lighting in 2.5

And 2.5 is still in beta. The lighting works fine in what is still the release version.

Everything else is just stuff that can be improved upon an doesn't work exactly the same as in the real aircraft. I do look forward to the module being improved of course.
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