Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle

Never got those guys that want a zillion buttons on each control. But ok, each their own.

Was actually about to preorder this throttle, but with the store going bananas and the recent announcement of Kommodo Sims to finally open their online shop, I decided to wait. Sorry, but I'd rather buy a collective. :P

Edit: if I'd make suggestions: use metal for the surfaces.

It just feels so much nicer than plastic.

I know that it's also more expensive, but I think there would be people willing to pay the extra bit (like me) for the improved feel and durability.

In Simracing, pretty much all custom/semi-custom controls we get are either metal or carbon fiber, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible here as well. ;)

What does 'functionally equivalent' mean?

To be able to map the same functions on equivalent axes/hat switches/mini-sticks/buttons. Not necessarily in the same position or with the same shape, but all must be available (and if there are extras, so much better).

Any throttle which does not have an analog mini-stick is not functionally equivalent, for instance. A hat switch will not be able to perform the same function as an analog mini-stick.

Yes, that's a good definition of 'functionally equivalent', but unfortunately it's not an all-encompassing one. The definition will change depending on who you ask. Just as you feel that a hat switch is not able to perform the same functionality as an analog mini-stick, someone can argue that a hat switch also can't perform the same functionality as the speedbrake (ON)-OFF-ON switch. Another person might feel that an analog stick on the thumb is not functionally equivalent to an analog stick on the index/middle finger.

This is why I'm saying that we should stop comparing the T-50 throttle as 'functionally equivalent' to the Warthog throttle, because not only is it a vague term, but the Warthog throttle itself is not very well-suited for a number of sims. Let's instead talk about the features we want to see in the next version of the T-50 throttle, starting with the mini-stick.

Just as you feel that a hat switch is not able to perform the same functionality as an analog mini-stick

It's not a "feeling". One is digital (either on or off, nothing in between), the other is analog.

I'm not asking VPC to produce a replica of the Warthog throttle. What I'm after is a throttle that gives me at least the same number of 4-way, 3-position etc on the grip as the warthog throttle, and of course with a better slew control, and of course with better overall quality. I can use all the switches on the Warthog throttle's grip without looking at it, and that is good not only for the A-10C but also for other "modern" aircraft.

My TM-WH throttle is still working, but it's aging. The slew control has been shitty from the beginning, and the China Hat tends to stay in the forward position. And I definitely don't want to try to repare it.

So I want something that can replace my TM-WH throttle for use with all aircraft, without loss of functionality.

Not quite... I have a CH Pro throttle, and the Warthog. I like the ergonomics of the CH Pro, but also want additional controls that allow me to use the more complex jets (like the A10-C). So, what I really want is a CH Pro crossed with a Warthog, but bettererer...

 

Which, I hope, the VPC unit will do a fairly good job of. I think the reality is, that I will start getting into building my own add-on control boxes at some stage, so whatever switches/buttons end up being missing, I’ll build an add on box myself to cover it. The controls on the grip itself are probably my priority.

 

I do agree with you, though, we really all want a throttle that can perform the functions at least as well as a Warthog, but we want it to be better.

 

:thumbup: So, I think, we are actually in agreement.

 

Z...

I use my CH Pro Throttle and Fighterstick with the A10C everyday and they do an excellent job. I made a point of spending time to figure out the best bindings.

https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/102385542845985326590/6507339302968430386

I'm not asking VPC to produce a replica of the Warthog throttle. What I'm after is a throttle that gives me at least the same number of 4-way, 3-position etc on the grip as the warthog throttle, and of course with a better slew control, and of course with better overall quality. I can use all the switches on the Warthog throttle's grip without looking at it, and that is good not only for the A-10C but also for other "modern" aircraft.

My TM-WH throttle is still working, but it's aging. The slew control has been shitty from the beginning, and the China Hat tends to stay in the forward position. And I definitely don't want to try to repare it.

So I want something that can replace my TM-WH throttle for use with all aircraft, without loss of functionality.

I could care less about the metal toggle switches on the warthog. I do use them on the f15 and in elite dangerous to map some functions but besides that they don't get much use. Oh and of course better quality internals. I've had the warthog set less than a year and I've already had to replace buttons.

I like how the t-50 throttle has those dials but I don't know what they could be used for. Perhaps when they get out in the wild and people share their configs it will be easier to see. Now I'm sure they can be set to dial radio frequencies which may or may not be useful for people that fly in VR. I'd probably use them. The T-50 throttle looks great and I have no doubt it's great quality too.

Just hope my warthog lasts long enough until the mini stick version is out or perhaps another model with other inputs.

I use my CH Pro Throttle and Fighterstick with the A10C everyday and they do an excellent job. I made a point of spending time to figure out the best bindings.

 

https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/102385542845985326590/6507339302968430386

But why the Warthog throttle? Why not compare the T-50 throttle to the Saitek X56, TM T.16000M, CH Pro Throttle, or even the long-discontinued TM Cougar and Saitek X65? You guys are holding the Warthog throttle as a gold standard, that if the T-50 throttle can have the same controls as it does, then it will be good for all modern aircraft. But by the same logic, I can also say that if it has the same hats, switches, and axes as the Saitek X56, then it will be good for all modern aircraft.

What you guys are asking for is not for a better throttle, but a drop-in replacement for the TM Warthog. Just take a look what you guys said:

I'm not asking VPC to produce a replica of the Warthog throttle. What I'm after is a throttle that gives me at least the same number of 4-way, 3-position etc on the grip as the warthog throttle

Yup this is what I meant when I said better throttle. Just that it should have those hats, boat, China, and brake switch can be used in other aircraft not just the Hog.

If the T-50 has the same 4-way hats, boat switch, speedbrake switch, and china hat, how is it at that point not a replica of the Warthog throttle?

I get it, you guys want a throttle that has at least the same number of bindable buttons and axes as the Warthog does, and that's totally fine. But don't make the claim that it be a better throttle overall, because the Warthog is far from the best throttle for all sims.

It's not a "feeling". One is digital (either on or off, nothing in between), the other is analog.

You really missed the point. I'm not talking about the difference between digital and analog, I'm talking about the difference between what 'functionally equivalent' means. Just as a hat is not the same thing as an analog stick, a hat is also not the same thing as a latching toggle switch.

But why the Warthog throttle? Why not compare the T-50 throttle to the Saitek X56, TM T.16000M, CH Pro Throttle, or even the long-discontinued TM Cougar and Saitek X65? You guys are holding the Warthog throttle as a gold standard, that if the T-50 throttle can have the same controls as it does, then it will be good for all modern aircraft. But by the same logic, I can also say that if it has the same hats, switches, and axes as the Saitek X56, then it will be good for all modern aircraft.

 

What you guys are asking for is not for a better throttle, but a drop-in replacement for the TM Warthog. Just take a look what you guys said:

 

 

 

 

 

If the T-50 has the same 4-way hats, boat switch, speedbrake switch, and china hat, how is it at that point not a replica of the Warthog throttle?

 

 

 

You really missed the point. I'm not talking about the difference between digital and analog, I'm talking about the difference between what 'functionally equivalent' means. Just as a hat is not the same thing as an analog stick, a hat is also not the same thing as a latching toggle switch.

I mainly fly the hog and my warthog will die soon, should I spend more money on just a warthog throttle even if components inside are crappy? When I have had it less than a year?

I don't think I should, and I'm sure others would agree, they would want something of better quality (than warthog, than x52, than the cm1600) but with the ability to map everything they need for an aircraft they normally fly.

Better quality but ability to map everything in particular to ones situation ...I think people use the warthog because it's the most complete module in dcs where it happens to have a lot of functionality that is very useful to have a hotas for.

Now I completely understand we won't be able to cover everyone's needs, but in general, a few more 4/5 way hats + push hats/ switches + a ministick I think would do enough justice for several Western modules.

Simply put out of all the available DCS aircraft the A-10C had the most functionally complex throttle and people looking for a replacement want to be able to map those functions to the new throttle. If the M2000 had a more complex throttle then I would be looking if a new throttle was able to map is functions as a baseline.

Any other available throttle you mention aren't able to map those functions so they don't meet that requirement. Personally I still fly with an X-65 throttle as it is able to map all the A-10 functions plus has 2 rotaries. The newer Saitek examples have less hats so I have stuck with this one. Same reason why I haven't got the Warthog throttle as well since the x-65 had rotaries.

By the looks of it the mini stick virpil throttle may be able to replace my current setup. But one of the requirements is an I asked to map the A-10 controls to it completely?

You guys are holding the Warthog throttle as a gold standard, that if the T-50 throttle can have the same controls as it does, then it will be good for all modern aircraft.

I'm sorry, but this statement is so dumb it made me laugh out loud. The Warthog currently is the gold standard for flight sim HOTAS throttles. Other than being a contrarian (which you're doing admirably,) I don't think anyone can disagree.

If the T-50 throttle has as many or more controls as the Warthog throttle, it will be able to perform as well as the Warthog throttle in simulating a variety of airplanes. Combined with superior construction, that would make it a superior throttle. If it has superior construction, but reduced features, it will not be able to simulate as many airplanes, and to those who do not exclusively fly a non-existent T-50 simulator, it will be an inferior throttle. This is logic that children understand.

But by the same logic, I can also say that if it has the same hats, switches, and axes as the Saitek X56, then it will be good for all modern aircraft.

Except that nobody thinks the X56 is better than the Warthog for simulating modern combat aircraft. This is a worthless hypothetical.

I'm convinced that you're just here to argue, because you're posting nonsense and ignoring the obvious.

Simply put out of all the available DCS aircraft the A-10C had the most functionally complex throttle and people looking for a replacement want to be able to map those functions to the new throttle. If the M2000 had a more complex throttle then I would be looking if a new throttle was able to map is functions as a baseline.

 

Any other available throttle you mention aren't able to map those functions so they don't meet that requirement. Personally I still fly with an X-65 throttle as it is able to map all the A-10 functions plus has 2 rotaries. The newer Saitek examples have less hats so I have stuck with this one. Same reason why I haven't got the Warthog throttle as well since the x-65 had rotaries.

 

By the looks of it the mini stick virpil throttle may be able to replace my current setup. But one of the requirements is an I asked to map the A-10 controls to it completely?

Flaps can be controlled with the lever on the t-50 throttle or be set to any other switch. All other warthog functions can be mapped to any other available buttons on the T-50.

If you use a t50 grip you will just have to change your counter measures in cockpit with the mouse.

I like the Warthog throttle but when it will break, and it will, as mine I've had less than a year and it's already acting goofy, you want to put your money in this hobby on something that will last you.

If the T-50 throttle has as many or more controls as the Warthog throttle, it will be able to perform as well as the Warthog throttle in simulating a variety of airplanes.

On "papper", Apple and Orange:

Warthog throttle: 32 buttons (push/toggle/momentary) + 1 x 8 way POV HAT plus push button (included in 32) = 40 buttons + 3 axis + "slew".

T50 throttle: 23 buttons (push/toggle/momentary) + 3 x 4 way HAT's (12 buttons) + 1x 4 way HAT plus push (5 buttons) + 3 encoder (1 button clockwise, 1 button counter clockwise) plus push (9 buttons) = 40 or 49 buttons (depends on how count encoders) + 6 axes (2 in rotaries) - no "slew".

What have "more" depends on player needs, but certainly the "best" throttle for DCS A-10C is Warthog throttle. :D

For some players an T50 throttle with mini-stick will be sufficient for A-10C, with pluses (encoders) useful for other games - can be used for trim/reset trim in IL2:Bo'x and other games as well the rotaries (e.g. DCS Spit Mk.IXe trims).

As "universal" throttle for different planes/genre/games T50 seems offer more functionality.

Thoughtful response, as usual Sokol. HOTAS functionality is what matters most to me, at least. If I just wanted more buttons, I have a keyboard for that. If I want more switches, I could buy a switch box.

You really missed the point. I'm not talking about the difference between digital and analog, I'm talking about the difference between what 'functionally equivalent' means. Just as a hat is not the same thing as an analog stick, a hat is also not the same thing as a latching toggle switch.

No, I did not miss the point. You said that the functionality difference between a digital hat switch and an analog mini-stick is a matter of "feeling".

Just as you feel that a hat switch is not able to perform the same functionality as an analog mini-stick

Hey guys - please ignore the pricing on the .by webstore, this is a bug on the store db which is getting sorted out as we speak.

 

The confirmed pricing will be announced shortly!

Hello Cyph3r.

Is the price announced on the EU webstore the real one???

It's 100€ more than you told us in a previous post...:(

Regards

I believe EU store includes vat.

Hello Cyph3r.

Is the price announced on the EU webstore the real one???

It's 100€ more than you told us in a previous post...:(

Regards

https://virpil-controls.eu/payment-info

"All prices are listed in Euros (€) with VAT included. When purchasing from within an EU member country, you will not be expected to pay any additional customs fees. "

Full price of the throttle (without the current 10% discount) is 359.95 euro (this is with 21% VAT).

So full price without VAT is 297.48 euro. Still almost 60 euro over the initially announced price of 239.95 euro.

The lights are nice, but a lower price would have been nicer.

The version I am interested in (with an analog mini-stick) will probably be even more expensive.

Full price of the throttle (without the current 10% discount) is 359.95 euro (this is with 21% VAT).

 

So full price without VAT is 297.48 euro. Still almost 60 euro over the initially announced price of 239.95 euro.

 

The lights are nice, but a lower price would have been nicer.

 

The version I am interested in (with an analog mini-stick) will probably be even more expensive.

I'm hoping for the same price point (or very close). Surely, a thumbstick does not cost too much more than a hat? Perhaps I need to research this...

Z...

Thoughtful response, as usual Sokol. HOTAS functionality is what matters most to me, at least. If I just wanted more buttons, I have a keyboard for that. If I want more switches, I could buy a switch box.

Whilst yes, that works, remember, that is no longer working as a "HOTAS", being purely technical.

Z...

Are there any dimensions for the throttle ? Also full throttle dimensions ?

I currently have a Warthog Throttle in a simpit and would like to know if the VPC will also fit in the same space

Thanks

As far as I know (and I am quite sure) it has the same dimensions. It was mentioned somewhere, but I dont know the exact source anymore... :/

I'm sorry, but this statement is so dumb it made me laugh out loud. The Warthog currently is the gold standard for flight sim HOTAS throttles. Other than being a contrarian (which you're doing admirably,) I don't think anyone can disagree.

Why is it dumb if he argues against the Warthog throttle being the ideal throttle?

For example, I also don't consider it the ideal one as it has only two hats (besides the slew controller) and (more importantly) has no rotaries. It's obviously ideal for an A-10C which has no radar, but for a fighter I'd much prefer the X65 throttle (with a rotary encoder and two rotary analog axis plus two more hats).

However, I do agree that the Virpil throttle lacks those three position switches on the handle (X65 at least has one four position mode switch there). IMHO, two of those should be present ideally as they can be useful for switching modes, flaps, speed brakes, etc.

Are there any dimensions for the throttle ? Also full throttle dimensions ?

I currently have a Warthog Throttle in a simpit and would like to know if the VPC will also fit in the same space

VPC throttle base is slight width ( ~20/25mm,) than Warthog throttle but has the same length and same holes pattern for attachment.