Jump to content

Monitor Advice 4K Downgrade


Recommended Posts

Hello all. As many of you know playing DCS in 4K is absolutely stunning, but the model spotting issues are becoming tiring. So I have been looking at picking up a 1080P monitor to see just how different it is.

 

So here is my question. Do any of the gaming monitor specific technologies such as GSync, High Refresh Rate, etc have any benefit or bearing on DCS gameplay? I don’t mind investing in tech if the rewards are worth it. So is there a consensus on what is best for DCS? I thought about going to my local Best Buy and picking up a cheap monitor but wanted to defer to the expertise and experience found here.

 

Thanks folks!

i7-7700K @ 5.2Ghz

SLI 1080Ti

64GB GSkill Trident Z RGB 4133

Asus Maximus IX Extreme

Custom Water Cooling Loop

TM Warthog/ MFG Crosswind

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not really answering your question - but have you tried simply lowering the resolution on your monitor?

 

I may be out to lunch but I thought Nvidia had a feature that would lower a 1440 or 4k monitor down to 1080 and use the extra pixels as kind of an enhanced anti-aliasing... might be worth looking into rather than buying a whole new monitor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since a 4k monitor is exactly 2 times 1080p monitor diagonally and vertically, if you set 1920x1080 resolution in DCS, it will practically work like a native 1080p screen. Each pixel rendered by the game will be displayed by 2x2 pixels on the 4k monitor, no blurring or image degradation.

 

So unless you want the extra tech like G-sync or 144hz, no need to invest in a new monitor, just lower the resolution in DCS and you're done.

  • Like 2

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's quite different, as far as what you're going to see. I used to have a 4k monitor (died), moved to a 1440p144 (also died), and am now on triple 1080ps. Each step down was quite noticeable :P

 

And as Some1 mentioned, if you really want to see, just change your res. No money required.

 

Refresh rates are noticeable, also, of course, but only provided you can drive it at the required framerates, you've got a 1080ti looks like, so I think you could handle just about anything sub-4k @ high refresh rates.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since a 4k monitor is exactly 2 times 1080p monitor diagonally and vertically, if you set 1920x1080 resolution in DCS, it will practically work like a native 1080p screen. Each pixel rendered by the game will be displayed by 2x2 pixels on the 4k monitor, no blurring or image degradation.

 

So unless you want the extra tech like G-sync or 144hz, no need to invest in a new monitor, just lower the resolution in DCS and you're done.

 

^this^

Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Gainward Phantom GS RTX 3080 | 32GB DDR4@3200MHz | HP Reverb | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds | DCS PD 1.0 / Steam VR SS 170%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience you don't want G-Sync or high refresh if you're using TrackIR - the technologies just don't seem to play well together.

 

Smoothest results for me is to limit refresh rate to 60hz, throttle DCS to 60 max fps (with rivatuner), and set v-sync on either in DCS or in the NVIDIA control panel.

 

If I try running DCS uncapped or capped at 100fps, at 100hz with G-sync, I get lots of stuttering and tearing while panning with TIR. I'm also using a 1080ti.

i7-4790k @ 4.4GHZ, 32GB G. Skill Ripjaws DDR-2133 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti FTW3, Crucial M500 SSD, VKB MCG, TWCS Throttle, MFG Crosswind, TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience you don't want G-Sync or high refresh if you're using TrackIR - the technologies just don't seem to play well together.

 

Smoothest results for me is to limit refresh rate to 60hz, throttle DCS to 60 max fps (with rivatuner), and set v-sync on either in DCS or in the NVIDIA control panel.

 

If I try running DCS uncapped or capped at 100fps, at 100hz with G-sync, I get lots of stuttering and tearing while panning with TIR. I'm also using a 1080ti.

 

Weird, the whole point of g sync and freesync is to eliminate tear at super high frame rates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weird, the whole point of g sync and freesync is to eliminate tear at super high frame rates.

 

Just doesn't synergize with TrackIR for whatever reason.

  • Like 1

i7-4790k @ 4.4GHZ, 32GB G. Skill Ripjaws DDR-2133 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti FTW3, Crucial M500 SSD, VKB MCG, TWCS Throttle, MFG Crosswind, TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience you don't want G-Sync or high refresh if you're using TrackIR - the technologies just don't seem to play well together.

 

Can't say I agree at all. I use TIR at 1440p with gsync and vsync on all the time. Frame-rates vary from 50 to 100fps and never a tear. Gsync does not stop screen tearing by it's self. All it does is slow the refresh rate when the fps drop bellow it.

 

What I DO notice, is how choppy it gets bellow about 80fps. Not stutters or tearing, just the blurring and general non-smoothness due to low fps. I swear, the worst thing that ever happened to gaming was the idea that 60fps was somehow good when everyone switched over from CRTs to LCDs. 60-75hz on a CRT used to make people sick and cause headaches.

System specs: i7 3820 @4.75Ghz, Asus P9X79LE, EVGA GTX1080SC @2100mhz, 16GB Gskil DDR3 @ 2000mhz, 512GB 960EVO m.2, 2 X 512GB 860EVO SATA3 in RAID0, EVGA Supernova 850W G2, Phantek Entho Luxe White. CPU and GPU custom water-cooled with 420mm rad and lots of Noctua fans.

ASUS PG348Q. VKB Gladiator Pro w/MCG, X-55 throttle and MFG Crosswind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

60-75hz on a CRT used to make people sick and cause headaches.

 

Part of that is because the whole thing flickers as it is being redrawn on every cycle, even when there are no changes. LCD screens don't flicker or change at all except for the pixels that change frame to frame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weird, the whole point of g sync and freesync is to eliminate tear at super high frame rates.

 

The point of G-Sync is to eliminate stuttering when the framerate drops below the refresh rate of the screen.

 

What you're talking about is handled by either Adaptive V-Sync (which will enable V-Sync when the FPS hits the monitor refresh rate) or Fast Sync (somewhat different implementation to avoid the V-Sync induced lag, but requires a somewhat higher FPS rate to work properly IIRC).

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Part of that is because the whole thing flickers as it is being redrawn on every cycle, even when there are no changes. LCD screens don't flicker or change at all except for the pixels that change frame to frame.

 

Oh ya I know. And that was the stupid reason for the 60hz limit, it was "good enough" because it didn't flicker. The point was that if that flicker was detectable and caused confusion to your brain, than so can such low frame rates. The evidence is plainly visible today with the availability of high refresh rate monitors. If you sit a 60hz and 144 or 240hz monitor next to each other and run something like the heaven benchmark, the smooth panning will make it dead obvious how significant the increase is. Not to mention there is a reason that VR headsets require at least 90hz.

System specs: i7 3820 @4.75Ghz, Asus P9X79LE, EVGA GTX1080SC @2100mhz, 16GB Gskil DDR3 @ 2000mhz, 512GB 960EVO m.2, 2 X 512GB 860EVO SATA3 in RAID0, EVGA Supernova 850W G2, Phantek Entho Luxe White. CPU and GPU custom water-cooled with 420mm rad and lots of Noctua fans.

ASUS PG348Q. VKB Gladiator Pro w/MCG, X-55 throttle and MFG Crosswind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Fast Sync (somewhat different implementation to avoid the V-Sync induced lag, but requires a somewhat higher FPS rate to work properly IIRC)...

 

Fun fact. The rapid variation of time between when the frame was drawn and when it is displayed results in significant stutter when using fast sync. Yes it does reduce latency slightly while eliminating tearing, but I've always found that the stuttering far out weighs any minuscule reduction in lag. At 100hz the worst possible delay is 9.9ms, with a more likely delay of 5 or less (as it takes time for the GPU to render the image unless you have over 200fps).

System specs: i7 3820 @4.75Ghz, Asus P9X79LE, EVGA GTX1080SC @2100mhz, 16GB Gskil DDR3 @ 2000mhz, 512GB 960EVO m.2, 2 X 512GB 860EVO SATA3 in RAID0, EVGA Supernova 850W G2, Phantek Entho Luxe White. CPU and GPU custom water-cooled with 420mm rad and lots of Noctua fans.

ASUS PG348Q. VKB Gladiator Pro w/MCG, X-55 throttle and MFG Crosswind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't say I agree at all. I use TIR at 1440p with gsync and vsync on all the time. Frame-rates vary from 50 to 100fps and never a tear. Gsync does not stop screen tearing by it's self. All it does is slow the refresh rate when the fps drop bellow it.

 

What I DO notice, is how choppy it gets bellow about 80fps. Not stutters or tearing, just the blurring and general non-smoothness due to low fps.

 

I'm using the same monitor (PG348q) and my smoothest perceived performance when panning in track IR is G-Sync off, V-sync on, refresh rate 60hz, limit DCS to 60fps. I will go back and try G and V on 100hz refresh, capped around 100fps but I remember not liking those results before.

i7-4790k @ 4.4GHZ, 32GB G. Skill Ripjaws DDR-2133 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti FTW3, Crucial M500 SSD, VKB MCG, TWCS Throttle, MFG Crosswind, TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience you don't want G-Sync or high refresh if you're using TrackIR - the technologies just don't seem to play well together.

 

Smoothest results for me is to limit refresh rate to 60hz, throttle DCS to 60 max fps (with rivatuner), and set v-sync on either in DCS or in the NVIDIA control panel.

 

If I try running DCS uncapped or capped at 100fps, at 100hz with G-sync, I get lots of stuttering and tearing while panning with TIR. I'm also using a 1080ti.

I have absolutely an opposite impression. The high refresh rate is where you benefit most from the adaptive sync technology like G-Sync. Especially if the FPS go above the monitor max refresh rate.

No issue with TIR also, actually the higher refresh rate the smoother and responsive the experience is. 50-60 FPS and more is where TIR starts to provie an imediate feedback.

 

There are settings in Nvidia control panel that may affect stuttering - max pre-rendered frames. Lowering the value, for instance as far as 0 generally decreases the input lag (from a device like the mouse and TIR) but may introduce stuttering. Increasing does opposite. It's not a placebo effect, this setting actually can make a difference.

I'm running at max pre-rendered frames set to 1 or 2 as 0 was creating too much stutter. On opposite end, setting the value to 3 created a noticeable delay for TIR - comparable to the difference with turning on the precision mode in TIR software.

As for the Nvidia settings also try to set the threaded optimization to Off. Try to experiment with this setting as depending on this option may slightly inrease the performance and limit the micro-stuttering.

Another setting worth playing with is the preload radius in DCS, increasing it may actually decrease stutter when you move your head arround.

 

No harm feelings but getting a high refresh rate monitor with a G-Sync and a GPU that is capable to support it and then capping the FPS and turning on Vsync in favor of G-Sync sounds counterproductive.

Vsync has so many drawbacks that it should be avoided at all cost. The most noticeable is the tremendous input lag. It's pretty much a no go for any fast paced game like an FPS but also for a TIR users creates an extremely noticeable delay between turning the head and the image displayed on the screen.

 

I'm running a 100hz G-Sync monitor and wouldn’t like to go back from it. A screen tearing free experience is just amazing. No more of this:

 

screen-tearing-example.jpg


Edited by firmek

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No harm feelings but getting a high refresh rate monitor with a G-Sync and a GPU that is capable to support it and then capping the FPS and turning on Vsync in favor of G-Sync sounds counterproductive.

Vsync has so many drawbacks that it should be avoided at all cost. The most noticeable is the tremendous input lag. It's pretty much a no go for any fast paced game like an FPS but also for a TIR users creates an extremely noticeable delay between turning the head and the image displayed on the screen.

 

I'm running a 100hz G-Sync monitor and wouldn’t like to go back from it. A screen tearing free experience is just amazing...

 

Gsync does not eliminate screen tearing by it's self. Vsync does not negatively impact Gsync, nor does it significantly increase input lag.

 

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

 

However, with G-SYNC enabled, the “Vertical sync” option in the control panel no longer acts as V-SYNC, and actually dictates whether, one, the G-SYNC module compensates for frametime variances output by the system (which prevents tearing at all times. G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” disables this behavior; see G-SYNC 101: Range), and two, whether G-SYNC falls back on fixed refresh rate V-SYNC behavior; if V-SYNC is “On,” G-SYNC will revert to V-SYNC behavior above its range, if V-SYNC is “Off,” G-SYNC will disable above its range, and tearing will begin display wide.Within its range, G-SYNC is the only syncing method active, no matter the V-SYNC “On” or “Off” setting.

System specs: i7 3820 @4.75Ghz, Asus P9X79LE, EVGA GTX1080SC @2100mhz, 16GB Gskil DDR3 @ 2000mhz, 512GB 960EVO m.2, 2 X 512GB 860EVO SATA3 in RAID0, EVGA Supernova 850W G2, Phantek Entho Luxe White. CPU and GPU custom water-cooled with 420mm rad and lots of Noctua fans.

ASUS PG348Q. VKB Gladiator Pro w/MCG, X-55 throttle and MFG Crosswind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have absolutely an opposite impression. The high refresh rate is where you benefit most from the adaptive sync technology like G-Sync. Especially if the FPS go above the monitor max refresh rate.

No issue with TIR also, actually the higher refresh rate the smoother and responsive the experience is. 50-60 FPS and more is where TIR starts to provie an imediate feedback.

 

There are settings in Nvidia control panel that may affect stuttering - max pre-rendered frames. Lowering the value, for instance as far as 0 generally decreases the input lag (from a device like the mouse and TIR) but may introduce stuttering. Increasing does opposite. It's not a placebo effect, this setting actually can make a difference.

I'm running at max pre-rendered frames set to 1 or 2 as 0 was creating too much stutter. On opposite end, setting the value to 3 created a noticeable delay for TIR - comparable to the difference with turning on the precision mode in TIR software.

As for the Nvidia settings also try to set the threaded optimization to Off. Try to experiment with this setting as depending on this option may slightly inrease the performance and limit the micro-stuttering.

Another setting worth playing with is the preload radius in DCS, increasing it may actually decrease stutter when you move your head arround.

 

No harm feelings but getting a high refresh rate monitor with a G-Sync and a GPU that is capable to support it and then capping the FPS and turning on Vsync in favor of G-Sync sounds counterproductive.

Vsync has so many drawbacks that it should be avoided at all cost. The most noticeable is the tremendous input lag. It's pretty much a no go for any fast paced game like an FPS but also for a TIR users creates an extremely noticeable delay between turning the head and the image displayed on the screen.

 

I'm running a 100hz G-Sync monitor and wouldn’t like to go back from it. A screen tearing free experience is just amazing. No more of this:

 

screen-tearing-example.jpg

 

I understand the logic and what you're saying.

 

I've spent more hours than I care to count tweaking to high heaven but for me with a 100Hz G-sync monitor, TrackIR5, and DCS it always come back to the same. 60hz, 60FPS, Vsync On, G-Sync off, is the smoothest response.

 

See here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174828

And here: https://forums.naturalpoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=13991

i7-4790k @ 4.4GHZ, 32GB G. Skill Ripjaws DDR-2133 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti FTW3, Crucial M500 SSD, VKB MCG, TWCS Throttle, MFG Crosswind, TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gsync does not eliminate screen tearing by it's self. Vsync does not negatively impact Gsync, nor does it significantly increase input lag.

 

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

Thanks for the link. Using both G-Sync and V-Sync on is a bit different topic than just the G-Sync and V-Sync considered separatelly.

Only with the G-Sync on there is a hudge difference when it comes to screen tearing reduction. Also, the V-Sync on its own does add significant input lag.

 

 

The video is just for reference. I wouldn't call it subjective as it should be rather obvious and most should be really able to notice a difference with V-sync (only) on. How much one can tolerate it is is another topic but for me the V-Sync on makes the mouse feel like connected with the monitor through a rubber band.

 

You can also see that in practice the G-Sync/FreeSync with V-Sync on can give different results, sometimes also increasing the input lag (results at about 11:30 minutes):

 


Edited by firmek

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've spent more hours than I care to count tweaking to high heaven but for me with a 100Hz G-sync monitor, TrackIR5, and DCS it always come back to the same. 60hz, 60FPS, Vsync On, G-Sync off, is the smoothest response.

 

I've noticed lately that vsync and gsync are a little buggy, and maybe has something to do with the latest windows 10 updates. It seems that sometimes after tabbing out of a game, gsync does not turn back on like it's supposed to. What happens then is it will only use double buffer vsync, so if I cannot get 100fps (99) it locks to 50. If I am using a framerate limiter set to say 97, it will never change from 50fps. But as I said, sometimes it doesn't do that and gsync works normally.

 

Also, using the "windowed and fullscreen" setting for gsync results in massive problems. Mainly the fps will get stuck at like 24 with 8% CPU and 10% GPU usage. Tabbing out brings fps back to normal (double buffered vsync) but still throttled when switching back to the game.

 

Even weirder, if I have vsync off (in game and forced with nvidia), when I tab out the game is vsynced (which I believe thats normal) but upon returning the game is now running with vsync even though it's supposed to be off.

 

So maybe the reason 60hz vsync is smoother for you, is because maybe you tab out (simple radio, teamspeak etc) and then your fps gets locked to 50.

System specs: i7 3820 @4.75Ghz, Asus P9X79LE, EVGA GTX1080SC @2100mhz, 16GB Gskil DDR3 @ 2000mhz, 512GB 960EVO m.2, 2 X 512GB 860EVO SATA3 in RAID0, EVGA Supernova 850W G2, Phantek Entho Luxe White. CPU and GPU custom water-cooled with 420mm rad and lots of Noctua fans.

ASUS PG348Q. VKB Gladiator Pro w/MCG, X-55 throttle and MFG Crosswind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed lately that vsync and gsync are a little buggy, and maybe has something to do with the latest windows 10 updates. It seems that sometimes after tabbing out of a game, gsync does not turn back on like it's supposed to. What happens then is it will only use double buffer vsync, so if I cannot get 100fps (99) it locks to 50. If I am using a framerate limiter set to say 97, it will never change from 50fps. But as I said, sometimes it doesn't do that and gsync works normally.

 

Also, using the "windowed and fullscreen" setting for gsync results in massive problems. Mainly the fps will get stuck at like 24 with 8% CPU and 10% GPU usage. Tabbing out brings fps back to normal (double buffered vsync) but still throttled when switching back to the game.

 

Even weirder, if I have vsync off (in game and forced with nvidia), when I tab out the game is vsynced (which I believe thats normal) but upon returning the game is now running with vsync even though it's supposed to be off.

 

So maybe the reason 60hz vsync is smoother for you, is because maybe you tab out (simple radio, teamspeak etc) and then your fps gets locked to 50.

 

Do you have the monitor set to 144hz in windows' monitor settings? It's kind of buried in Win10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have the monitor set to 144hz in windows' monitor settings? It's kind of buried in Win10.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but that's not it. It's a 100hz monitor, and I had a 144hz back in 2012 so making sure the monitor is in fact running at the right refresh rate is second nature. Also this monitor tells you on the main menu the hz and that gysnc is enabled. Believe me, I've tried every setting possible. It's a bug on Nvidia and or Microsoft's drivers. It didn't do this 6 months ago, but then again 6 months ago I was able to use "windowed and fullscreen" gsync without massive performance problems.

System specs: i7 3820 @4.75Ghz, Asus P9X79LE, EVGA GTX1080SC @2100mhz, 16GB Gskil DDR3 @ 2000mhz, 512GB 960EVO m.2, 2 X 512GB 860EVO SATA3 in RAID0, EVGA Supernova 850W G2, Phantek Entho Luxe White. CPU and GPU custom water-cooled with 420mm rad and lots of Noctua fans.

ASUS PG348Q. VKB Gladiator Pro w/MCG, X-55 throttle and MFG Crosswind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...