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R-27ER update?


Schmidtfire

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  • 4 weeks later...

Has any of the recent updates broken the R-27? I've seen videos of several missiles missing in situations where they shouldn't miss. But maybe I'm missing something, idk. Just want to know if they are broken now, to see if the next time I fly the Flanker I should bother to take them or not lol.

 

I'm looking forwards the R-27 update. But it's not going to happen soon. ED has to change the SD-10 now, possibly the Phoenix too. The R-27 is a low-priority missile for them at the moment, after all only the targets use them so why bother

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Has any of the recent updates broken the R-27? I've seen videos of several missiles missing in situations where they shouldn't miss. But maybe I'm missing something, idk. Just want to know if they are broken now, to see if the next time I fly the Flanker I should bother to take them or not lol.

 

I'm looking forwards the R-27 update. But it's not going to happen soon. ED has to change the SD-10 now, possibly the Phoenix too. The R-27 is a low-priority missile for them at the moment, after all only the targets use them so why bother

Its possible, i dont know. In any case, except for any game breaking bug, we should wait for a complete update of russian missile in the same manner of the amraam.

 

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Its possible, i dont know. In any case, except for any game breaking bug, we should wait for a complete update of russian missile in the same manner of the amraam.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

 

I'm gonna be honest I don't think the R-27 is going to get an update as deep as the Spamraam's. That'd be a lot of work put in a missile that neither the community at large or even ED cares about. They'll just adjust the aerodynamic coeffs and call it a day

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I'm gonna be honest I don't think the R-27 is going to get an update as deep as the Spamraam's. That'd be a lot of work put in a missile that neither the community at large or even ED cares about. They'll just adjust the aerodynamic coeffs and call it a day

 

Basing this on what exactly?

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Basing it on the expectation that he wants R-27's, 20-30 years behind in technology compared to the slammer, to be competitive with the slammer.

 

ED is already correcting issues with chaff and how easy it is to notch any radar guided missile. The flight dynamics and mechanization are a huge change in and of themselves, giving a much more realistic and more lethal flight profile in the subsonic regimes of all missiles.

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https://zakupki.kontur.ru/0173100004515001647

 

That's why. 170-1 is R-77-1, and 13175178880 roubles is about 200kk US dollars spent on those missiles in 2015 money. If 1 R-77 costs as 1 120C (should be cheaper as usually though) then there were about 1000-2000 missiles ordered in that contract.

 

Btw, I'd say that about 80-90% of russian fighters are capable of carrying it and the remaining 10-20% are about to be replaced by new planes

 

That document is from 2015 order.

I am talking about R-27 since the begin to something like 2005-2010.

 

So you claim that Russians are stupid that they didn't have any single air-to-air capable missile to defend their airspace from what, '83 up until 2015+ when the order was made to get R-77....

 

So they never had anything better than mediocre R-27 missile as it was so terrible and bad, that anyone even with AIM-7F from 1976 could come to shoot their fighters down. And they just happened to wake up to situation that 32 years later....

 

They put serious money and time to upgrade radars, aircrafts and all, but just keep flying over 32 years with missiles that can't hit anything, can seek on anything and will just cause all those upgrades to be blown pieces by decades older missiles...

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I'm gonna be honest I don't think the R-27 is going to get an update as deep as the Spamraam's. That'd be a lot of work put in a missile that neither the community at large or even ED cares about. They'll just adjust the aerodynamic coeffs and call it a day

 

It is funny when people scream for realism so that they can blow things up on red for, but they do not want realism for ground units or red for that would put them in challenge to experience somewhat the reality.

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I'm gonna be honest I don't think the R-27 is going to get an update as deep as the Spamraam's. That'd be a lot of work put in a missile that neither the community at large or even ED cares about. They'll just adjust the aerodynamic coeffs and call it a day

Doesn't care about? As excited as I am with the 120 update, that in a vacuum doesn't do much when the other missiles are inferior by a huge amount. I want some good opposition to fly against, so updated R-27's and R-77 are just as important as AIM-7's and AIM-120's. It goes for the entire missile range. I want realistic R-33's, R-24's, R-13's, whatever.

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Doesn't care about? As excited as I am with the 120 update, that in a vacuum doesn't do much when the other missiles are inferior by a huge amount. I want some good opposition to fly against, so updated R-27's and R-77 are just as important as AIM-7's and AIM-120's. It goes for the entire missile range. I want realistic R-33's, R-24's, R-13's, whatever.
I am waiting for the moment when ED updates this missiles and one second later people would cry about R-27 having greater range than their 120s and since many people would be eating redfor missiles because of their improper notching techniques, no defensive maneuvers and new missile eating less chaff and no notch filter etc. ED would be forced to relook the missile.

People in hoggit literally crying to remove Mig 31 from PGAW since they are not getting missile launch warning when the R33 is in terminal stage in F-14 (last 3-5 seconds). I know it's a bug (not yet verified to be fixed by Dev yet) Speaks the length people would take to nerf down opposing missile just to get kills. And that's the harsh reality.

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I know the R-27 is not going to become magically as good as the Spamraam, but let's face it. They seem to be short on manpower, they have more "interesting" missiles to work on, like the Phoenix and the SD-10, and no FF Red plane that can carry the R-27 is on the horizon. It must be low on the priorities list, I wouldn't be surprised if ED half-assed the R-27 update. And what would be the issue? The R-27 is going to be worse than the Spamraam anyway, and most people use the Spamraam over any other missile so the change would be minimal, most of the people wouldn't notice it or even care about it.

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That document is from 2015 order.

I am talking about R-27 since the begin to something like 2005-2010.

 

So you claim that Russians are stupid that they didn't have any single air-to-air capable missile to defend their airspace from what, '83 up until 2015+ when the order was made to get R-77....

 

So they never had anything better than mediocre R-27 missile as it was so terrible and bad, that anyone even with AIM-7F from 1976 could come to shoot their fighters down. And they just happened to wake up to situation that 32 years later....

 

They put serious money and time to upgrade radars, aircrafts and all, but just keep flying over 32 years with missiles that can't hit anything, can seek on anything and will just cause all those upgrades to be blown pieces by decades older missiles...

 

There haven't been any notable upgrades to the R-27 family since the 90's. Period. There have been various concepts and active seeker proposals by Russia and Ukraine (Arten & Radionix) but those were never adapted. Lack of funds, sanctions and the fall of the soviet union were the main contributers. Ask yourself this - why would the russian DOD invest the already limited funds into an old fox-1 platform going forward? They are currently investing in further improving the R-77, namely the planned K-77M with convetional fins, better seeker and extended range. It's as if the US and its allies didn't go through the same process with the Sparrow in the past - any further upgrades for the Sparrow would have been complete nonsense.

 

 

Regarding this topic - the 27 family does indeed need the same or similar treatment the 120 fam. has received in terms of aerodynamics and guidence algorithms. It's still one of the most used missiles in multiplayer to this day. Realistically, every major missile we have in DCS needs this treatment.


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I know the R-27 is not going to become magically as good as the Spamraam, but let's face it. They seem to be short on manpower, they have more "interesting" missiles to work on, like the Phoenix and the SD-10, and no FF Red plane that can carry the R-27 is on the horizon. It must be low on the priorities list, I wouldn't be surprised if ED half-assed the R-27 update. And what would be the issue? The R-27 is going to be worse than the Spamraam anyway, and most people use the Spamraam over any other missile so the change would be minimal, most of the people wouldn't notice it or even care about it.

 

Of course it is going to be worse, it's an old Fox-1. That's not the point though, improved aerodynamics and PN guidence will give it more range and energy conservation, generally increasing the E-pole and F-pole and closing the gap a little bit more when needed. Doesn't mean it's going to match the Amraam but since this is a flight simulator you'd think every missile should get the same treatment and abide to the same aerodynamic laws. ;)

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I know the R-27 is not going to become magically as good as the Spamraam, but let's face it. They seem to be short on manpower, they have more "interesting" missiles to work on, like the Phoenix and the SD-10, and no FF Red plane that can carry the R-27 is on the horizon. It must be low on the priorities list, I wouldn't be surprised if ED half-assed the R-27 update. And what would be the issue? The R-27 is going to be worse than the Spamraam anyway, and most people use the Spamraam over any other missile so the change would be minimal, most of the people wouldn't notice it or even care about it.
After finishing up with Phoenix and SD-10, it'll be the time when Typhoon releases with Meteor, it'll break MP and ED would take over fixing meteor, further delaying 27/77s. Well that's that.
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[...] but since this is a flight simulator you'd think every missile should get the same treatment and abide to the same aerodynamic laws. ;)

 

Of course. But this isn't just a simulator, this is also a business. ED is currently chasing the money, pretty much. And a family of old missiles used by old planes that don't bring the fat stacks of cash that ED wants probably doesn't look great for whoever is making decisions in ED.

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Of course. But this isn't just a simulator, this is also a business. ED is currently chasing the money, pretty much. And a family of old missiles used by old planes that don't bring the fat stacks of cash that ED wants probably doesn't look great for whoever is making decisions in ED.

 

Absolutely. The absolute lack of beta testing which is quite evident by the latest OB update only makes it worse...

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Given the single player population, this makes no sense. You can make missions and campaigns with period appropriate aircraft and weapons which work just fine. So, there's your money.

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https://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/news/defense-aviation-news/2019-news/may/5086-russian-aerospace-forces-to-receive-upgraded-r-27-missiles.html

 

According to press release, there are R-27 upgrades, obviously if the missile is so aerodynamically inferior - those would not make sense. Probably an overhaul with replacing expired rocket engines with new better ones and probably new seekers. They probably have a large stockpile of R-27s nearing expiration date.

 

The only thing that is possibly mistranslated is:

R-27P1 homing warhead combines an active radar and inertial correction. They switch on in turn depending on the flight stage. The missile receives guidance from radars of the carrier aircraft or ground radars. It operates by the launch-and-forget principle and ensures information stealth of the attack.

 

I thought P was sort of a anti-radiation ("passive radar homing") missile not ARH ("active radar"). Maybe it is ment to be something like homing on active radar emission?

Back in the day IIRC there was a project or prototype R-27AE but never got into service.

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I don't think that the R-27 is inferior to the Aim-120 in terms of aerodynamics and kinematics.

 

With a lofted profile it would reach crazy ranges, because it gets much faster than the Aim-120. The added weight would help it to maintain its speed against the higher drag.

 

With a loft the brochure ranges of 120 km are perfectly plausible.

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aupower.net is very far from one of the best sites for accurate information given their agenda - you can't tell if their research is just poor, or if they're distorting things deliberately.

As long as you ignore any comparative sentences they write, you might get some reasonable information.

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aupower.net is very far from one of the best sites for accurate information given their agenda - you can't tell if their research is just poor, or if they're distorting things deliberately.

As long as you ignore any comparative sentences they write, you might get some reasonable information.

 

so their references (you can see them down in the page) isnt good cos dont say what you want... your are better based in? can you put here your specific references from an independent source based on non export version of the missiles so all of us can see?

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Have you even tried checking their references?

 

Have you even read the articles and counted how many times paper-only weapons are mentioned, or how many times he writes 'may' this or 'may that', or his sources do the same?

 

By the way, what's this about 'non-export versions'? You're just trying to make yourself look smart with that one, right? Because you couldn't possibly believe that actual operator's manuals, even for so called export versions, would somehow be inferior information to the references that you failed to check, right?

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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To quote that beautiful gem of a website:

 

 

"The available evidence demonstrates at this time that a mature production PAK-FA design has the potential to compete with the F-22A Raptor in VLO performance from key aspects, and will outperform the F-22A Raptor aerodynamically and kinematically. Therefore, from a technological strategy perspective, the PAK-FA renders all legacy US fighter aircraft, and the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, strategically irrelevant and non-viable after the PAK-FA achieves IOC in 2015"

How could you possibly not trust a website capable of such detailed, nuanced analysis?

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