Visibility

Ok looking into it more, and some big help from Jabbers, it does seem like that some of the unrealistic spotting, such as small objects beyond +50nm seem to have gone away.

I can confirm this and I am NOT in VR. Spotting distance, or the dots that you could see way out, have gone away. Before I was able to spot aircraft 'dots' at 40-50km or greater. This is no longer the case. Welcome change in my eyes.

Not a good change for me. Spottimg in VR is harder than in a monitor, that was somehow neglected by having a good spotting distance, which is now gone.

It would be nice if these changes where announced and explained the criteria behind them from the developers. Through the years DCS is going back on forth on this area.

I'm good if you cant spot a fighter at 30mn, the problem is that now what you could clearly see at 8mn is really difficult to see now. I need to test it more.

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Not a good change for me. Spottimg in VR is harder than in a monitor, that was somehow neglected by having a good spotting distance, which is now gone.

 

It would be nice if these changes where announced and explained the criteria behind them from the developers. Through the years DCS is going back on forth on this area.

 

I'm good if you cant spot a fighter at 30mn, the problem is that now what you could clearly see at 8mn is really difficult to see now. I need to test it more.

 

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Do you really think you should be able to see a fighter sized object at 8nm? That's 48000 feet. There is no way imo. You can barely see airliners at 20000 feet and they are huge.

Do you really think you should be able to see a fighter sized object at 8nm? That's 48000 feet. There is no way imo. You can barely see airliners at 20000 feet and they are huge.

This has been discused several times through the years, to simplify everything (im simplifying a lot excuse me):

Fighter at 20 mn you should not see it and i totally agree, fighter at 8mn you should be able to see it slightly better that in RL just to compensate for the lack of motion perception that human eye can see in RL. In such cases even if barely visible your brain will tell you that something is there cause it saw something moving.

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Mmm...maybe it’s not that obvious. AFAIK, as of today, more resolution means worse spotting...or so I understand (I’m currently playing @1080p so I can’t really tell the difference with a 4K setup).

Mmm...maybe it’s not that obvious. AFAIK, as of today, more resolution means worse spotting...or so I understand (I’m currently playing @1080p so I can’t really tell the difference with a 4K setup).

Only because DCS is (was?) using a dot sprite. Disregarding that, higher resolutions are always better.

Basically, as I see it, the best solution to this (in VR, that is) is in the hands of our hardware vendors, higher resolution HMD's driven by more powerful cards.

So, hopefully next year?

It will take very very high resolution HMDs to equate to 20/20 vision. Maybe not by next year... :music_whistling:

Very bad change, it used to be hard before but now at higher rez its pretty much impossible. the VR guys must be pissed of more now.

I dont get it, thread after thread was asking for improved spotting why was this change needed?

Basically, as I see it, the best solution to this (in VR, that is) is in the hands of our hardware vendors, higher resolution HMD's driven by more powerful cards.

So, hopefully next year?

Agreed. As another VR User I cannot help but feel I am operating at a slight disadvantage compared to Track IR users in combat. It’s not a complaint because I think the sense of immersion is amazing and when I have tried using a flat screen it just feels, well, pretty rubbish and DCS is then like a game and not a memorable experience anymore. However, when it comes to combat results VR is probably a bit of a hindrance compared to those using Track IR.

1. Clarity is higher...see things better. Like your instruments....quite a bit of my use of switches is without being able to read them.

2. Ease of lookout...check six with a twitch of your head. In VR you have to turn completely in your seat.

3. Zoom. The videos I have seen on YouTube that Track IR users employ is far superior to the VR zoom. It is quicker. It does not make you feel weird like in VR. Track IR zoom looks to achieve similar results to early stage target pod zoom..no wonder they can pick up shilkas in tree lines without having to overfly them!

4. You can use your keyboard, chat, checklists, notes...second screens, your hands more easily than in VR. The ergonomic challenge is significant.

5. Track IR is probably that less fatiguing...although I can go for a few hours at a time in VR.

None of this a complaint though because VR benefits far outweigh all of the above, for me anyway...and I simply would never consider playing DCS without it....but I will look forward to higher resolution when next gen headsets come out for sure.

I can see an airliner flying at 40.000 feet. I have as good sight as it would be required to be a fighter pilot thats true.

 

This has been discused several times through the years, to simplify everything (im simplifying a lot excuse me):

 

Fighter at 20 mn you should not see it and i totally agree, fighter at 8mn you should be able to see it slightly better that in RL just to compensate for the lack of motion perception that human eye can see in RL. In such cases even if barely visible your brain will tell you that something is there cause it saw something moving.

 

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And what you can see flat footed on the ground near a busy airport where you can glance around and see an airplane nearly any given direction is not the same as what you would see while in the air and EVERYTHING is moving.

You also don't see a 55ft x 55ft plane either. The wings, which are visible on the ground looking up, are just slits and effectively invisible. Headon or from the sides you are limited to spotting the fuselage only, which on most aircraft is probably 5-8ft tall and 10-15 ft wide. Yeah, you'd definitely be able to spot an object moderately larger than a small car at 8-10 miles, Captain Eagle Eyes @@

Guys, you know that the "dot" can be customized, right? You need to do a little homework but all the information is inside the Labels.lua file. Put a copy on C:\Users\YOURuserName\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View and change settings to your liking. Of course, this same file can be incorporated into your missions so it can be enforced on Multiplayer environment.

Very bad change, it used to be hard before but now at higher rez its pretty much impossible. the VR guys must be pissed of more now.

 

I dont get it, thread after thread was asking for improved spotting why was this change needed?

Same here, on my 4k I lose visual contact over 2 or 3Nm....:cry: That was bad before but now it is not playable.

Just did the update (looking at stepping backwards from this one) and yes DCS worked perfectly fine before the update so it's only the DCS update at fault.

Yep same here with Rift anything mor than 10 to 15 metres away looks like pixelated junk even on NTTR map.

Rift resolution is badly affected, any vertical lines on objects moves their position as you approach or pan your head as if there is a changing spacial difference where that vertical line should be displayed between frames. As well there seems to be very bad antialising making visibility useless even out to 100 mtrs, that's how low res it is now.

Also mouse no longer works on dialog buttons like "ok" and even main program "EXIT" I now need to use taskmanager to kill DCS, this also means i am not able to change settings.

Same here, on my 4k I lose visual contact over 2 or 3Nm....:cry: That was bad before but now it is not playable.

I concur with the above statement. Losing track of an enemy fighter at 2/3nm is frustrating as hell. I think this is my #1 grievance regarding the DCS engine.

I really do hope the developpers will be able to find a solution for users with high resolution monitors. Their price range make them more affordable nowadays and more and more players are going to pick them up as they upgrade their rig.

It's weird, but if I lock a plane with the radar, the appear in the distance as a feint dot. If they are not locked (because I haven't locked them yet) they are no where to be seen. This can happen at 20+ miles.

:book:

Just did the update (looking at stepping backwards from this one) and yes DCS worked perfectly fine before the update so it's only the DCS update at fault.

 

Yep same here with Rift anything mor than 10 to 15 metres away looks like pixelated junk even on NTTR map.

 

 

Rift resolution is badly affected, any vertical lines on objects moves their position as you approach or pan your head as if there is a changing spacial difference where that vertical line should be displayed between frames. As well there seems to be very bad antialising making visibility useless even out to 100 mtrs, that's how low res it is now.

 

 

Also mouse no longer works on dialog buttons like "ok" and even main program "EXIT" I now need to use taskmanager to kill DCS, this also means i am not able to change settings.

(Mouse not working on lower parts of screen) Issue already fixed internally and due out with next beta patch. Till then try setting windows desktop resolution to 1080p before you load dcs. Works for most ppl.

Ah here's the thread I was looking for..

Yes, this sucks :mad:

I can't see a frikking thing in VR over 4.5nm and even then it's incredibly difficult to spot now.

The sim seems to have gone from comparable spotting in VR to desktop to now a MASSIVE disadvantage for VR users.

ED didn't tell us about these changes either so we spend hours on end trying to work out whats happening on our end.

:helpsmilie:

The visual problem in DCS has always been the disappearing within a certain range within (within 10km range) aircraft do, this has never been sorted since the beginning.

The 60km visual that was implemented a while ago was total bs in my opinion and made dot hunting in Viggens, 21s, F5s, Korean era etc. ridiculously too easy. Yes it was fun killing F-15s in weaker aircraft but it never felt realistic at all.

Hopefully ED can come up with a solution that fixes all.

Just chiming in after a few hours trying to dogfight in the MiG21 Bis.

Just very difficult to see my opponent, so many times im right behind him, muck around flipping a switch, look back gone, never seen again.

My impression is that everything in Dcs is a bit blurry/hazy, there's little contrast and that's what makes it hard to spot other aircraft. The graphics have always had that 'im so pretty' look to it and it's a problem. Like a gal with way too much make-up.

On a positive note, flying the MiG21 is great fun :)

And what you can see flat footed on the ground near a busy airport where you can glance around and see an airplane nearly any given direction is not the same as what you would see while in the air and EVERYTHING is moving.

 

You also don't see a 55ft x 55ft plane either. The wings, which are visible on the ground looking up, are just slits and effectively invisible. Headon or from the sides you are limited to spotting the fuselage only, which on most aircraft is probably 5-8ft tall and 10-15 ft wide. Yeah, you'd definitely be able to spot an object moderately larger than a small car at 8-10 miles, Captain Eagle Eyes @@

Btw, for anyone that have seen fighter(4 times bigger than the regular car) in real life, yes, you can see one at 8/10 miles against the clear sky, that is not posible in OB9 right now

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I don't know exactly what ED have done or why... Trying to fly in multiplayer tonight was so stressful. I couldn't see jets or missile trails 90% of the time.

The prospect of sneaking up on people is officially gone!

I get there is an argument for realism, however it's a sim/game and my eyes don't zoom to see things further away like they do in DCS. There has to be a level of compromise.

Guys, you know that the "dot" can be customized, right? You need to do a little homework but all the information is inside the Labels.lua file. Put a copy on C:\Users\YOURuserName\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View and change settings to your liking.

The problem with having a customised labels file in that location is that the new labels options in 2.5.3 won’t work.

Hey ED! My eyes aren't getting any younger! Throw us a bone would ya?

Well, the big issue once again is that spotting heavily depends on how zoomed in you are. When full zoomed you can spot contacts at a fine distance, as soon as you zoom out they dissapear again.

I'm unsure what's going on with this right now, the changes being made to visibility seem arbitrary. The system we had before where we could see too far was not touched for months and months, then suddenly we regress again to what we've had before even that?

Was there some timetable on actual in depth changes for visibility? It was supposed to begin when the graphics engine was unified or stuff settled down or something? Honestly don't remember.

:book:

 

(Mouse not working on lower parts of screen) Issue already fixed internally and due out with next beta patch. Till then try setting windows desktop resolution to 1080p before you load dcs. Works for most ppl.

I have seen mixed reports on the mouse sync issues I'm currently back on the previous 2.5.2.x version where Rift resolution and image quality is somewhat better than it is under the 2..5.3.x so I'll hang off updating until the issues are resolved.

Cheers :thumbup: