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Why is the Viper getting TWS before the Hornet?


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I agree and disagree with you at the same time. The only reason there are unhappy players, is because those players completely misunderstand what Early Access means. You in particular have been quite vocal on your displeasure regarding the Viper being released. Your everyday interaction within the Forum has added nothing, and has proven that you understand the reason for EA, without actually understanding what EA means.

 

 

 

While not aimed specifically at you, I will say this about the community in general: I am truly sick and tired of coming to the forum, or view a Youtube clip about some new feature of the Viper/Hornet, only to come across a wall of cancerous text toxicity about how they "spent $400 on modules", or how ED "broke promises". Jeez people, it's a game! And a bloody good one at that!

 

 

 

If you truly believe that TWS will make a substantial difference to your MP experience, in either the Viper or Hornet, then it basically means you are crap anyway. This ridiculous focus on TWS means you're problably one of those pilots that only get a kill by spamming 6 AMRAAMS at someone and hoping they react too late once the missiles go pitbul.

 

 

 

I'm going to give the Forum a break for a while, because I honestly can't take the negativity and sense of entitlement from little kids anymore.

 

 

 

@Bignewy and the rest of the ED Team, good luck with this community.

Couldnt agree more. Thanks alot for writing it what I see lately better than me.

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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I agree and disagree with you at the same time. The only reason there are unhappy players, is because those players completely misunderstand what Early Access means. You in particular have been quite vocal on your displeasure regarding the Viper being released. Your everyday interaction within the Forum has added nothing, and has proven that you understand the reason for EA, without actually understanding what EA means.

 

While not aimed specifically at you, I will say this about the community in general: I am truly sick and tired of coming to the forum, or view a Youtube clip about some new feature of the Viper/Hornet, only to come across a wall of cancerous text toxicity about how they "spent $400 on modules", or how ED "broke promises". Jeez people, it's a game! And a bloody good one at that!

 

If you truly believe that TWS will make a substantial difference to your MP experience, in either the Viper or Hornet, then it basically means you are crap anyway. This ridiculous focus on TWS means you're problably one of those pilots that only get a kill by spamming 6 AMRAAMS at someone and hoping they react too late once the missiles go pitbul.

 

I'm going to give the Forum a break for a while, because I honestly can't take the negativity and sense of entitlement from little kids anymore.

 

@Bignewy and the rest of the ED Team, good luck with this community.

 

...as you want....(I will not make a caricature like you just did, it would not be very interesting here)

 

I know how an EA works, I just think that ED should finish it (hornet) before announcing others (viper) that's all.


Edited by hanab
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...as you want....

 

I know how an EA works, I just think that ED should finish it (hornet) before announcing others (viper) that's all.

 

They can't. It has been discussed already by Nick Grey:

 

"without early access we would spend 50% more time and money to engineer the products as developers work better and faster with direct user feedback and when they see their product in the market.

we would not be profitable.

we would be vulnerable to customer 'fade' as they switch to other products or genres.

we would not enjoy the 'right' to imperfection"

 

You may want them to finish the Hornet first, but the scale of that project is too great for them to just work on that, and that alone.

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...as you want....(I will not make a caricature like you just did, it would not be very interesting here)

 

I know how an EA works, I just think that ED should finish it (hornet) before announcing others (viper) that's all.

Give it a rest hanab. They clearly got your messages. No need to constantly posting same tone over and over again (look at your post history).

If you cant accept explanations from them then nothing from us will satisfies you. Keep going and you highly likely accomplish nothing.

 

Have a good day.

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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Give it a rest hanab. They clearly got your messages. No need to constantly posting same tone over and over again (look at your post history).

If you cant accept explanations from them then nothing from us will satisfies you. Keep going and you highly likely accomplish nothing.

 

Have a good day.

 

thank you for the advice, but I will continue to write what I think. have a good day too !

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Honestly ED should stop doing early access at all. The community just can't handle it. Give out the stable version only and only fully released modules.

Maybe beta versions, but only for people who apply for it and get checked. With the option to kick them out of the beta program, when they don't support the product.

 

Because they need money to continue operational. In my opinion, they shall charge, maybe 5 bucks, a month from each user to support DCS World.

:thumbup:

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….as F18c customer, with all curtesy i have, i politely say that the politics of push just the latest module and slow down (sometimes to a full stop, like combined arms) older modules still in Early Access is something i really dont like, and makes me unwilling to buy new modules.

sorry for that, tried to make as simple and polite as possible, but thats it.

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I agree and disagree with you at the same time. The only reason there are unhappy players, is because those players completely misunderstand what Early Access means. You in particular have been quite vocal on your displeasure regarding the Viper being released. Your everyday interaction within the Forum has added nothing, and has proven that you understand the reason for EA, without actually understanding what EA means.

 

While not aimed specifically at you, I will say this about the community in general: I am truly sick and tired of coming to the forum, or view a Youtube clip about some new feature of the Viper/Hornet, only to come across a wall of cancerous text toxicity about how they "spent $400 on modules", or how ED "broke promises". Jeez people, it's a game! And a bloody good one at that!

 

If you truly believe that TWS will make a substantial difference to your MP experience, in either the Viper or Hornet, then it basically means you are crap anyway. This ridiculous focus on TWS means you're problably one of those pilots that only get a kill by spamming 6 AMRAAMS at someone and hoping they react too late once the missiles go pitbul.

 

I'm going to give the Forum a break for a while, because I honestly can't take the negativity and sense of entitlement from little kids anymore.

 

@Bignewy and the rest of the ED Team, good luck with this community.

 

I disagree entirely. The term "Early Access" in itself isn't defined anywhere and is a very open to interpretation. On one hand you have Heatblur Early Access, where the plane has all the major systems, all weapons and most major features working on release with only smaller bug fixes, corrections and secondary system additions to be added down the road. On the other hand you have ED Early Access, where nothing is truly finished and a placeholder, not even a finished model or textures or proper RWR for that matter. I think there should be a general rule or even law as to what "Early Access" really means. I think the initial Early Access "pre-order" price should be a lot less than what it is now (up to 50% off) and if the developer hasn't finished the product or fulfilled the promised features that were annonced during the pre-oder phase a year after EA release, everyone should get their money back. And lets be honest, if any 3rd party released a module in the same state the F-16 or F-18 came out in, they'd lose the contract and get fired.

 

EDIT: This "premature access" model also doesn't pay out in the long run. People who know what's gonna happen will not pre-order any more new modules that are released in the same fashion. However, people will more than likely preorder something from Heatblur, Deka Ironworks or Leatherneck, as theor quality and support have proven themselves over the years.


Edited by Airhunter
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Not sure why this thread exists, other than to say, "Oh see, we caught you out, you couldn't keep to what you said!" Which is petty.

 

 

 

Crikey, I really wish TWS had been prioritised earlier, but ED did it this way and whilst the Dev is on the Viper the reasoning absolutely made sense, not to shuffle the dev around to give them stable time to get on and work. About the last thing anyone should want in this thread is to distract a developer. With a head full of code, an annoyingly timed email or just picking the incorrect song on your playlist can really delay you getting to the end of delivering a portion of code. It's basic common sense, don't mess with your devs, they need time to wire in and get a rhythm going, and then to be left alone without someone breathing down their neck.

 

 

The rest of this is pointless and normally I avoid threads like this in order not to bump them, but it just shows a frightening simplistic view on software development and a need to get overly involved to the point of detraction.

 

 

 

The point of undelivered commitment and the passion around TWS is well made by now. The time to have moaned about this was much earlier, the only question to really ask is why TWS was so delayed and why there was no outcry at the time when only a small part of the audience were asking why the hold up.

 

 

If folks are so passionate, where were you all months ago? This reeks of pettiness.

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EDIT: This "premature access" model also doesn't pay out in the long run. People who know what's gonna happen will not pre-order any more new modules that are released in the same fashion.

 

Speak for yourself. *I* would gladly buy into another EA like the Viper again, since I a) don't care how complete the initial release is and b) like taking part in watching it mature.

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...And lets be honest, if any 3rd party released a module in the same state the F-16 or F-18 came out in, they'd lose the contract and get fired.

 

EDIT: This "premature access" model also doesn't pay out in the long run. People who know what's gonna happen will not pre-order any more new modules that are released in the same fashion. However, people will more than likely preorder something from Heatblur, Deka Ironworks or Leatherneck, as theor quality and support have proven themselves over the years.

 

Agreed.

 

I think there are many dedicated fans on here who are more likely to give ED a break (as I am) as they know DCS is niche of a niche. They realise the devs didn't get into this genre to make their fortune, and that they're in this for the long game (e.g. updates still come out for A10/Ka50 almost 10 years later).

 

However...

 

Newer/more casual players simply aren't going to be interested in waiting 5 years for their favourite module to be completed, regardless of the good reasons ED may have for their choices.

 

My feelings are ED are probably trying to do the best they can for their customers, I just hope whatever business model they use is a success.

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And lets be honest, if any 3rd party released a module in the same state the F-16 or F-18 came out in, they'd lose the contract and get fired.

 

And you consider that weird?

That's looking out for their customer base.

If a third party would release a very basic EA version, and than would say "goodbye", it's ED who can clean up the mess.

Remember the Hawk? Wasn't that much of a succes story was it?

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And you consider that weird?

That's looking out for their customer base.

If a third party would release a very basic EA version, and than would say "goodbye", it's ED who can clean up the mess.

Remember the Hawk? Wasn't that much of a succes story was it?

 

Where did they say they considered that weird?

 

They only pointed out that ED aren't meeting the same standards they demand from 3rd parties.

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I am happy with the Hornet. There is nothing on this planet like what DCS has. My one focus is: carrier ops. (I'm ex-U.S. Navy)

 

I'm happy with the Viper. It's a work in progress and we're getting exposed to it early. I'm fine with that.

 

I bought the Tomcat because it is DCS. I've flown it a couple times (front seat) but dislike the plane as a plane (not a DCS thing, but a Grumman thing.)

 

I've bought most other modules, as well. The Russian gems are in my hangar but collecting dust. But, to reward Eagle Dynamics, I bought them anyway. The only thing in Russian I know is spacibo (let me look that up... благодарю вас.)

 

Sure, people will complain. I complain about EA bugs simply because the developers need to know what's happening in the wild. That's what EA is all about. I'm happy with that.

 

How Eagle Dynamics creates their magic is not my interest. I'm just happy they give me some incredibly awesome modules and several worlds to play in.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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I am happy with the Hornet. There is nothing on this planet like what DCS has. My one focus is: carrier ops. (I'm ex-U.S. Navy)

 

I'm happy with the Viper. It's a work in progress and we're getting exposed to it early. I'm fine with that.

 

I bought the Tomcat because it is DCS. I've flown it a couple times (front seat) but dislike the plane as a plane (not a DCS thing, but a Grumman thing.)

 

I've bought most other modules, as well. The Russian gems are in my hangar but collecting dust. But, to reward Eagle Dynamics, I bought them anyway. The only thing in Russian I know is spacibo (let me look that up... благодарю вас.)

 

Sure, people will complain. I complain about EA bugs simply because the developers need to know what's happening in the wild. That's what EA is all about. I'm happy with that.

 

How Eagle Dynamics creates their magic is not my interest. I'm just happy they give me some incredibly awesome modules and several worlds to play in.

 

Absolutely couldn't agree more. Stuff takes time, mean while I have a HUGE amount to learn about other air frames.

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Where did they say they considered that weird?

 

They only pointed out that ED aren't meeting the same standards they demand from 3rd parties.

 

Maybe weird wasn't the right word.

But the reasone why still stands.

If you don't understand that, than there is no reason to keep this discussion going.

DCS A-10C II Warthog, DCS AV-8B, DCS F/A-18C. DCS F-16C DCS KA-50 III, DCS F-14B. DCS AH-64 Apache. DCS Mirage F1. DCS F-15E.
System: Z690 - i9-12900k - RTX 3080ti - 32gb ram - 2tb NVME - 2x2tb HDD - TM Hotas Warthog - MFG Rudders - Trackir/VR

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