stuck on grass

I disagree at this that "most have their undercarriage ripped off or end up buried to their axles" - either the one "delicate" type with small tyre diameter/footprint, really heavy ones and/or in wet/rainy/muddy conditions. We have videos of Mig15, Mig21, F5 and C-130 Hercules here in thread operating from dirt. I give you this champion too:

Its Soviet philosophy guys! Get it! Airstrips are everywhere! This tread here proofs how western thinking is pretty "boxed". Truth is elsewhere. Have fun reading this tread and don't get anything wrong. I'm here to stress on authentic and immerse flaws of this simulator so blame me for that.

https://frontlinevideos.com/blogs/videos/russias-a-10s-dont-have-a-gau-8-but-can-do-something-a-10s-cant

Have fun. :pilotfly:

In the picture - he's on a taxiway, it's just flooded.

The video - you can do that in DCS already.

I posted a track. Su-25A, full fuel load, landed on the grass. Stopped, Taxied then took off.

jackmckay, I'm still not sure what you're exactly after here?

Do you want ED to get soil samples at the corner of every airport and taxiway and model that?

Just hardened all the corners of every airport taxiway /widen the taxiways?

How about you wait and see what the new Caucasus map and taxiways are like first, that's getting released very soon in a few weeks.

I don't see this ground modeling being a priority if at all, as this is the first time I've see anyone complain about it here.

.

One final video to show what Weta43's tracks show in terms of the surface variability. I start from jackmckay's Gudauta hanger and go for a drive. Starting at around 6:30 I go through his "soft" area twice. There are places where you "sink"in but you can keep moving slowly forward until you're out again (in some locations this can take several minutes).

Are you just skipping the posts that don't fit with your worldview Fri13?

Yup, that is exactly what he does.

Oh c'mon, let's move the vegetation out of the equation.

OK, perhaps we should :D But as Weta discovered, ground unevenness and softness are simulated regardless.

Sure, and then look about all the other design reasoning behind the Soviet aircrafts? Their experience from the war conditions, what workforce they have to operate as to service them in their country.

 

This is not a discussion how someone would be driving rally with their fighters across the map. This is about being actually operate a military aicraft on the ground, around the already prepared area for a permanent use (that is rendered unusable in war time at sooner than later).

 

By rules you always need to stay on paved taxiways etc. But always some mishaps and other reasons happens that pilots slips outside, lands outside or roll too far etc. Not by their purpose (unless testing) but just accidents. They definitely get some paperwork to do about it or at least yelling from commanding officer.

 

 

 

A loaded cargo aircraft is one thing that is required to operate. Carrying more than just enough fuel to land or take-off.

 

Same thing is with fighters. You don't design fighters to operate in war time from road bases or from forest camps without weapons and capability complete their mission.

 

There are many main challenges what are required and what can be done. Like what weight of the aircraft, how many times and in what weather can something come and operate. Some airfields can work so that after every day field is repaired. Some are that it requires repair after every landing.

 

But when you don't need to stress things to their extreme limits, you don't do that. You avoid all possible degradations for airframe lifetime and extend service times etc. But things happens.

 

 

 

 

That is the pre-tests that airfield construction pioneers/engineers do. They have already database of suitable areas. They go to location to check them and then make plans what kind work is required to be done to get there specific kind operational capability.

 

It doesn't mean that every single area needs to be prepared fully, as there are semi-prepared as unprepared fields that can be used. Some requires lots of time to build the strip in a week. Some requires just hours if even that.

 

But even thinking that airfields every other area than paved one is extremely soft soil that is totally unprepared, that is just... Naive. Like no one ever did anything on those areas but left them as soft and grassy as possible.... So "let the grass grow!" audience would be happy.

 

 

 

The problem is that people think that every grass area just outside of the pavement on airfields are "soft", such way that aircraft's wheels just sinks in and get so badly stuck they can't move anymore.

 

It would be far more interesting too to get the weather system affect things like that. In a longer time in winter when the soil is frozen to around 1m depth, you can do whatever you want as long there wouldn't be snow to stop you. A fall with rain would likely cause trouble and cause you to sink so you get stuck worse. Or then have a summer with dry season when you have as well no problems.

 

It is not like we have waited for how many years to get the raindrops effects while flying? Turbulence affecting a another aircraft?

Synced clouds?

 

Some could just argue similarly against those "Just think that you have water going past" or "just fly further from another as you should" or "Just turn off the clouds as they block your view anyways!".

 

Once we have a Cray supercomputer running under our desk, we can still just wish things to be done as someone needs to program them.

 

A hot fix to just avoid aircraft to get stuck on the ground would be nice. No need to remove the rough bumpy area for that, even when unrealistic how bumpy it is.

 

 

Again, what more do you want modeled?

It is all there, just don't stop, with a fully loaded plane or you may get stuck! Like in real life.

Here it is again, now please watch this before complaining about something that is already implemented pretty well.

EDIT and the post from Ironhand two above mine...

I disagree at this that "most have their undercarriage ripped off or end up buried to their axles" - either the one "delicate" type with small tyre diameter/footprint, really heavy ones and/or in wet/rainy/muddy conditions. We have videos of Mig15, Mig21, F5 and C-130 Hercules here in thread operating from dirt. I give you this champion too:

 

 

 

Its Soviet philosophy guys! Get it! Airstrips are everywhere! This tread here proofs how western thinking is pretty "boxed". Truth is elsewhere. Have fun reading this tread and don't get anything wrong. I'm here to stress on authentic and immerse flaws of this simulator so blame me for that.

https://frontlinevideos.com/blogs/videos/russias-a-10s-dont-have-a-gau-8-but-can-do-something-a-10s-cant

Have fun. :pilotfly:

As some members of this community have shown pretty well, this is already modeled quite good (given the "importance") in DCS World.

If your MiG-21 "explodes" immediately on leaving the runway, ask the developer to adjust the damage model!

It isn't the ground that makes you explode, it is how the damage model handles the suspected damage, from going too fast over "rough" ground.

Make sure you don't use arcade mode/SFM as the simplified flight model does not handle this well. (Off runway and faster than x = explode).

All AFM, EFM, PFM planes can handle the ground model as implemented by the respective developer.

Fact is DCS World already models all you want in a pretty much 90% realistic way. Now if you roll a fully loaded Su-25 or a 40 ton armed to the teeth Flanker and roll it onto the grass strips and wait for it to sink in... Well, you are likely stuck.

If you know your plane and carefully taxi and roll over the lawn, you can manage.

...and again, improvised does not mean "unprepared"! As you and Fri13 insisted so hard, any airport is checked to be able to support a runway yaddayadda, and lo and behold so do the engineers before setting up an improvised air strip... :doh:

Apologies to Ironhand, I didn’t watch enough of his original video (& apparently can’t read :-) so I missed that he’d already demonstrated that it was possible to take off and the land on the grass.

I didn’t need to repeat what he’d already done.

Have you actually watched Ironhands video??? The one where he shows you how well you can taxi, start and land (!!!) on the grass and fields with an empty Su-27(!).

 

...

:) Not quite empty. 60% fuel and some missiles. Just under 25,000 kg for both videos.

Apologies to Ironhand, I didn’t watch enough of his original video (& apparently can’t read :-) so I missed that he’d already demonstrated that it was possible to take off and the land on the grass.

I didn’t need to repeat what he’d already done.

??? No apologies necessary. In fact, I eagerly downloaded your tracks. I love watching other people fly. Always something to learn.

I just saw this in a publication about the siting of airfields in Bomber County, and I immediately thought of this thread!

If a 3-ton (3.05tonnes) truck could be driven on a grass runway without leaving tyre marks it was deemed ready for action.

Although this refers to the runway, it's still grass (and muck...)

Looks like Su27 is not the issue here. Somehow that heavy plane manages to do impossible despite high load on tyre footprint. Ironically, the one designed to operate from unprepared runways obviously can't utilize design feature. :huh:

 

...

 

PS: It would be cool if all flyable modules would be tested it that conditions.

I somehow missed this when I was involved earlier. The Su-27 is normally my ride and, so, that's what I used. But this got me wondering about aircraft differences.

At any rate, using an off-taxiway spot at Tbilisi-Lochini that will stop you if you slow down, I used the various aircraft I have available to see what happens. The result was interesting:

• All aircraft would get stuck, if you slowed or stopped.
   
  
• SFM (Mig-29A, MiG-29S) aircraft "unstuck" very quickly. No damage.
   
  
• PFM (Su-27, -33, A-10C) slowly work their way out. No damage noted.
   
  
• AFM (A-10A, Su-25, Su25T) slowly work their way out but might incur steering damage.
   
  
• L-39C & ZA slowly work their way out but may incur steering damage (not sure of FM).
   
  
• F-86 slowly works its way out with no damage noted (not sure of FM).
  

So all aircraft would plow through, if you carried enough speed but would get stuck if you slowed down sufficiently or were too slow in adding power. After you're stuck, the outcome may depend on the flight model.

:) Also, the particular area at Tbilisi-Lochini I was using was interesting. In one area you could see water shimmering just beneath the ground surface adjacent to the taxiway.

It'll be interesting to revisit this after 2.5 is released.

I understand this thread boils down to an enhancement request on the game, but I wish this much energy would go into something related like grass airfields, as a feature, rather than variable amounts of grass stickiness. I'm sure, yes, we've all been there, it's annoying, and we tend to be super careful after learning the hard way, but the solution is to provide variable ground softness to the FM and I'm not sure if that is as worth while as so many other feature requests.

It might be that the solution combines grass airfields with soil density modelling, that would be ironic.

I understand this thread boils down to an enhancement request on the game, but I wish this much energy would go into something related like grass airfields, as a feature, rather than variable amounts of grass stickiness. I'm sure, yes, we've all been there, it's annoying, and we tend to be super careful after learning the hard way, but the solution is to provide variable ground softness to the FM and I'm not sure if that is as worth while as so many other feature requests.

 

It might be that the solution combines grass airfields with soil density modelling, that would be ironic.

As the "different and realistic ground behaviour" this is already implemented.

What we need is the "Start from ground" option and grass field support for more/all aircraft ?

I must admit, with the difficult taxiing characteristics of the propped aircraft - especially if you've not flown them for a while - it can be extremely frustrating when you are trying like hell to get the thing turned before the end of the matting and you go a foot over and come to sudden halt and end up having to restart the mission - especially if you've already spent some time in it, learning stuff on the ground, before moving off.

This was what stopped me using the Normandy map after it's first release (may have been updated since, I don't know) with any aircraft I'm not completely familiar with. Just seemd a bit daft, for aircraft that mostly operated from grass fields, to get stuck the instant I went off the Marsden.

I do hope, if not already, that it will be tweaked at some stage - at least for the WWII aircraft.

Stay on the taxi way, Use any NWS and stay off the grass its not difficult.

Select "Static Objects" - "Grass Airfields" - "Grass Airfield" ?

 

As the "different and realistic ground behaviour" this is already implemented.

 

What we need is the "Start from ground" option and grass field support for more/all aircraft ?

No way! the grass changes?! Did not know that, never tried to land on one because they are invisible. Is this in 2.2 only?

So why can't the solution to the OP be to put a grass airfield over the taxiways?

You can already start from ground but requires changing two lines of code in the base game. Also AI cannot, they explode, but players certainly can in fixed wing. Check mods and apps section somewhere.

Stay on the taxi way, Use any NWS and stay off the grass its not difficult.

Yeah, I always switch on NWS on my Spitfire and Mustang - it's not difficult...

Wheel brakes and rudders are fine for me :smilewink:

Grass runways would be nice :thumbup:

 

• All aircraft would get stuck, if you slowed or stopped.
   
  
• SFM (Mig-29A, MiG-29S) aircraft "unstuck" very quickly. No damage.
   
  
• PFM (Su-27, -33, A-10C) slowly work their way out. No damage noted.
   
  
• AFM (A-10A, Su-25, Su25T) slowly work their way out but might incur steering damage.
   
  
• L-39C & ZA slowly work their way out but may incur steering damage (not sure of FM).
   
  
• F-86 slowly works its way out with no damage noted (not sure of FM).
  

L-39, F-86, Mig-15 and others ED / BSK products has PFM

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/albatros/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/tiger/

L-39, F-86, Mig-15 and others ED / BSK products has PFM

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/albatros/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/tiger/

Ahhh... OK. Thanks. So that shoots down one of my hypotheses.

211 posts about grass. God I love DCS

211 posts about grass. God I love DCS

:) Almost 1 post per blade...

hello I have problems with DCS multiplayer since I updated I cant fly multiplayer because my dcs stay loading all the time and don't do nothing more and I have to restart the simulator to find that multiplayer never let me go inside the server any helpppppppppp please

211 posts about grass. God I love DCS

:megalol:

There is something to be said here. You really have to love a sim that has people worrying about the density of the dirt next to runway.

22 pages of this... The level of WHINE-age is epic..

<SMH>