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TrackIR not as smooth in 2.5 as 2.2 and 1.5.8


Jacks

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Same issue here. If frame rate is not 60 or 120, trackir panning is jittery. 144Hz GSync monitor, I have up to date PC.

 

yes!!!!!!!!!!

And even if disabling gsync and running at "fixed" resfresh rate with traditional vsync the jittery is still there!!

Moreover i noted that jittery is present in almost all youtube videos also from ED and others as well.

I am pretty sure that it is always present but people dont even realize about it...:(:mad::mad::mad:

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Hi all

 

I have tried to reproduce but have been unable, I just don't see any jitters, and I am currently running on a 49" 4k LED tv, frames anywhere form 50 > 100+ sync off msaa off

 

Only advice I can give is to ensure TrackIR is running with admin permissions

also run DCS with admin permissions

 

and check your security or antivirus is not creating the problem, I have added DCS folders to my allowed list.

 

edit:

 

I have made a team member aware of this thread


Edited by BIGNEWY

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The best way to see it is to lock frame rate at 60fps (assuming the system tested can hold it) or 120fps and pan around with trackir. Unlock, or for the sake of experiment lock it at an odd value like 73fps and pan around again. The difference is noticeable.

 

The jitters are not pronounced, some people may not directly notice them (I do see them all around on videos), but they are there and they result in tiredness after long period of playing - it's like a couple of frames delay/skip. It's very similar effect to what happens with vsync enabled for a 60hz monitor, but a game (any game) not being able to hold steady 60fps and falls back to 30fps.

 

I am lucky that my system can hold steady 120fps at high settings, so the issue is masked.

 

No issues in Arma 3 at any frame rate.

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It could be a side effect of the memory and shader issues currently in 2.5.

I would be interesting to see if you notice a difference after the next patch

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video from Wags :

 

look at 2:43 and after, when he pan around the fram of cocpit and external immage is jittering.

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It could be a side effect of the memory and shader issues currently in 2.5.

I would be interesting to see if you notice a difference after the next patch

 

Lets hope we get a new patch soon:thumbup::);)

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Hi all

 

I have tried to reproduce but have been unable, I just don't see any jitters, and I am currently running on a 49" 4k LED tv, frames anywhere form 50 > 100+ sync off msaa off

 

Only advice I can give is to ensure TrackIR is running with admin permissions

also run DCS with admin permissions

 

and check your security or antivirus is not creating the problem, I have added DCS folders to my allowed list.

 

edit:

 

I have made a team member aware of this thread

 

Are u running windows 10? I dont run any antivirus exepct the one integrated in win10, realtime scanning is already disable, i will take a better look into this.

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I have tested again, non-VR, everything ON, WQHD, DS + MSAA4x, max everything, tho it does press me down to sometimes below 50fps, TiR defo has no stutter on my end, tested for 2h online on busy servers last night.

 

It's gotta be on your end.

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I have tested again, non-VR, everything ON, WQHD, DS + MSAA4x, max everything, tho it does press me down to sometimes below 50fps, TiR defo has no stutter on my end, tested for 2h online on busy servers last night.

 

It's gotta be on your end.

 

That's really strange, I dont know what else I could try, I also tried another trackir unit of a friend (it's even a newer unit than mine).

You owned same motherboard that I am currently running, the asus maximus VIII hero, we have the same monitor expect mine is the newest version Asus pg278QR.

Tried all usb ports, tried clean OS install, tried running cpu at default speed with no OC.

IF Fps are stable at 60 or 120fps there is no jittery with trackir, if fps drops below 120,it will stutter/jitters....

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That's really strange, I dont know what else I could try, I also tried another trackir unit of a friend (it's even a newer unit than mine).

You owned same motherboard that I am currently running, the asus maximus VIII hero, we have the same monitor expect mine is the newest version Asus pg278QR.

Tried all usb ports, tried clean OS install, tried running cpu at default speed with no OC.

IF Fps are stable at 60 or 120fps there is no jittery with trackir, if fps drops below 120,it will stutter/jitters....

 

This sort of problems are hard to diagnose as they are not obvious, the jitters I get are really subtle, but persistent, which makes them quite annoying. Different people have different tolerances to this - it's not a show stopping thing for many people too.

 

If I were to speculate this may have something to do with the rate physics engine runs at in relation to display/render frame rate, trackir polling rate etc. - pure speculation here. I strongly doubt it has anything to do with antiviruses, reinstalling and other usual snake oil "solutions", so if I were you I'd not waste your time on these.

 

Personally I just stick to 60 or 120 fps and live with it for time being.


Edited by mdee
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This sort of problems are hard to diagnose as they are not obvious, the jitters I get are really subtle, but persistent, which makes them quite annoying. Different people have different tolerances to this - it's not a show stopping thing for many people too.

 

If I were to speculate this may have something to do with the rate physics engine runs on in relation to display/render frame rate, trackir polling rate etc. - pure speculation here. I strongly doubt it has anything to do with antiviruses, reinstalling and other usual snake oil "solutions", so if I were you I'd not waste your time on these.

 

Personally I just stick to 60 or 120 fps and live with it for time being.

 

Hi mate,

I know its a waste of time but this problem is disturbing m quite a lot, i am force to run a game with a highend pc at 60fps which is ridiculous, with a 165hz monitor.......and a 1080TI card whic is almost 1000 euro....

Appart ftom this my jitters are not subtle at all, are clearly visible and make me headache.

:mad::mad::crash::crash::crash::crash:


Edited by BIGNEWY
edited 1.1

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I have this same problem but mine is with 60 fps. I dont have a gsync monitor but the screen tearing annoys the crap out of me. So I use the in game vsync. For the most part I am able to run solid 60fps with jitter free TiR, but as soon as it drops below 60, jitter fest. Even 55 fps will cause the jitter.

 

I have had this problem in 1.2 release version all the way till now with the 2.5 OB I always assumed it was something on my end since i could never find info about this. The worst thing about this is that it makes it even more difficult than it already is to track a target. The jitters are somewhat like a motion blur effect. Somewhat subtle but enough to notice. Very annoying indeed.

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I have this same problem but mine is with 60 fps. I dont have a gsync monitor but the screen tearing annoys the crap out of me. So I use the in game vsync. For the most part I am able to run solid 60fps with jitter free TiR, but as soon as it drops below 60, jitter fest. Even 55 fps will cause the jitter.

 

I have had this problem in 1.2 release version all the way till now with the 2.5 OB I always assumed it was something on my end since i could never find info about this. The worst thing about this is that it makes it even more difficult than it already is to track a target. The jitters are somewhat like a motion blur effect. Somewhat subtle but enough to notice. Very annoying indeed.

 

Yeah any frame rate which isn't 60 or 120 will potentially make the issue noticeable. It's less noticeable at very high (>120) frame rates. Yes, it does look exactly as you described.


Edited by mdee
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Yeah any frame rate which isn't 60 or 120 will potentially make the issue noticeable. It's less noticeable at very high (>120) frame rates. Yes, it does look exactly as you described.

 

+1:thumbup:

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this is all very very odd....

 

I have no idea what this could be, the symptoms are so radical in appearance.

 

TiR seems to be locked to a 60/120/180/240 rate, any factor of 60 will do.

 

Is there any chance that TiR is by some circumstance locked to that frequency, by some Vsync option or such ? I have never checked it tbh.

 

Can you post a screenshot of your TiR settings ?

 

Those are mine, which for my experience I call stutter free.

1.thumb.JPG.4d9f8339c7bbe98186b6aeb00fbb3321.JPG

2.thumb.JPG.d566e987cb945510880f810ffc5989ad.JPG


Edited by BitMaster

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this is all very very odd....

 

I have no idea what this could be, the symptoms are so radical in appearance.

 

TiR seems to be locked to a 60/120/180/240 rate, any factor of 60 will do.

 

Is there any chance that TiR is by some circumstance locked to that frequency, by some Vsync option or such ? I have never checked it tbh.

 

Can you post a screenshot of your TiR settings ?

 

Those are mine, which for my experience I call stutter free.

 

Exactly this is a good point dear Mr BiTmaster, TIR seems locked to multiple of 60 but this is not entirely true, because any fps above 120 will make TIR smoothness as butter, same as 60 fpss locked, but fps between 60-120 will result in stutter when panning despite the game (with TIR paused/disabled) is perfectly smooth.

 

 

The real strange thing is this, why the hell is it smooth at 60fps but not at costant 80 or 100 for example?? this is what drives me crazy, i man i can run at perfect almost 80 fps with all MSAA 8X but i cant, so i have to run at 120 with MSAOFF.

 

And further more i installed IL2 and Arma3 and they are also stuttering same as DCS.


Edited by Goa

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I sent you my file.

 

Good to know it's not only DCS, it points to a timing/protocol issue.

 

we'll nail it down...!

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I suspect that many of the "jitter" or shudder problems that people see are related to either frame latency (soundslikerust wrote a nice post about that here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=200737) or mismatch in the framerate that DCS outputs in a particular scene and people's monitor or controller input rate

(i.e. TIR).

 

For example, if TIR is providing "smooth" inputs at a rate that doesn't match the fps of the game, then the effect will be a jitter (it only has to be mismatched by 1 or 2 frames to see jitter). If the game is outputting framerates that doesn't match your monitor refresh, then you will have jitter (e.g. if your fps is 59 or 61 but your monitor is 60Hz then your graphics card will either duplicate a frame or drop frames to make the timing => perceived jitter)

 

At higher fps (for most people this means over 120fps), the human eye may not notice this mismatch jitter but it becomes more obvious the lower the number.

 

Home theater buffs figured this out a long time ago - which is why most enthusiasts lock their displays to the framerate of the movie they are watching (i.e. 24 or 30 Hz) or close multiples of that number, like 50/60.

 

My aging pc doesn't have the horsepower of some of the people complaining here, but I can manage most jitter by optimizing my settings to keep frame render times low and then lock the fps with vsync (also use adaptive/smooth vsync settings for when the framerates get really low). It is tempting to leave the fps unlocked (so I can see it hit 200fps at times) but that really doesn't do much for smooth play, so vsync it is.

 

For some people, the use of a framerate limiter that matches the refresh rate of your monitor and TIR inputs with whatever fps DCS can consistently output with your preferred settings may be the answer (using the highest common denominator). This way everything stays in sync (but at lower overall fps) (Note: lowest or highest common? Not sure how clear I'm being here - haven't had my coffee yet)

 

now "hard shudders" are a different problem, which I suspect is related to people's RAM/pagefile settings


Edited by prccowboy
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proccowboy - this is very plausible theory, thing is that trackir input rate does not have to be fixed 120 "fps" - it should be possible to make it variable and adjust to current monitor frame rate. Problem is that Natural Motion stopped updating the software in 2016 and I am not sure if they acknowledge existence of variable refresh rate monitors and very high FPS capable systems. Whether this can be resolved game side or tir software side, I don't know. The problem we describe doesn't happen when using mouse/stick to pan.

 

bwt I did exactly what you said, locked DCS FPS @ 120.

 

ps. Same with monitor refresh rate and fps - but this is a different issue and it's solved for people with gsync monitors which can adjust refresh rate dynamically.

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Yes it is a shame that naturalpoint has not updated their drivers since 2016 and with all the new windows 10 updates they did not patch anything.

Furthermore their forums are full of reports from customers complaining about this "stutter/jittery" behaviour but no responses are being provided by Naturalpoint.

I suspect they are well aware about this problem with certain monitors.

 

Plus, i dont understand the reason of why at 70/80/90 stable fps trackir is jittery but it is smooth at 120...

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It would be nice if one could change Hardware until it works, so we were able to locate one of the points to fix this. Like USB3 card from vendor ABC fixed it, or " my pal's Monitor works fine when I test that one, only mine seems to bug it"...right now, there is little essence on how to proceed.

 

 

your question:

70 80 90 is not an integer product of 60. 60 120 180 240 will work I am utmost sure.

 

That's actually one of the few things we do know, it's somehow tied to 60Hz.. the rest is a mystery.

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@Bitmaster: but on your rig you're running without capping fps if I am not wrong, so you get smoothness Trackir movement from 60 updwards, or not?

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no special settings, no caplocks anywhere, smooth from I'd say 50-openend.

 

my Gsync kicks in at 50 fps, if I drop below I suffer as anyone else, but have no stutter or such, just with 45fps it's different than say 90, steering etc. is different, better at higher fps.

 

Ya, it works as it is, only "addon" I have is SRS, vanilla elsewhere.

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