Jump to content

Engine Sounds


rhinofilms

Recommended Posts

problem is that DCS dont have spitfire equiped with griffon engine.

And FW190 in this video dont have original engine, you can easy notice it by lacking fan behind prop.

fhc-fw-190a-5-may-2016-4.jpg

I would love to see Griffon Spitifre in DCS some day :)

I think sounds of ww2 stuff in DCS is very very good.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please use the engine sounds from this video. It would make me so happy.

 

YEAH, because the Chinese copy of the Shvetsov Ash-82 is the proper engine sound for the most authentic Fw190 simulation :doh: .

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YEAH, because the Chinese copy of the Shvetsov Ash-82 is the proper engine sound for the most authentic Fw190 simulation :doh: .

 

 

S!

 

Yeah Chinise copy of the ash-82 developed from ash-62 copied from Wright R-1820 sound like legit BMW 801 engine.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Either way the point stands that the sounds of pretty much all aircraft are sub par. The warbirds sound more like ride on mowers.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Either way the point stands that the sounds of pretty much all aircraft are sub par. The warbirds sound more like ride on mowers.

 

crank volume up then.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ash-62 copied from Wright R-1820
Well, that wasn't exactly "copied", that was produced as M-25 under license (paying fees and everything, just with metric stuff) and later on M-25 was developed into M-62/3 and further.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Either way the point stands that the sounds of pretty much all aircraft are sub par. The warbirds sound more like ride on mowers.
Then buy new headsets or something, it sounds pretty good and true to life should you have made it to any Warbird show in your life, by the way.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cleary you haven't. None of them sound anything like the real life counterparts I'm afraid.

 

I have seen many warbirds and piston aircraft and none sound like they do in DCS.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cleary you haven't. None of them sound anything like the real life counterparts I'm afraid.

 

I have seen many warbirds and piston aircraft and none sound like they do in DCS.

 

So you saying that you have heard bf190 k4 and fw190 D9 ??

ED claims that sounds are from real recordings when this is possible.

And i will never accept sounds recorded by some crapy things like videos on youtube.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cleary you haven't. None of them sound anything like the real life counterparts I'm afraid.

I have seen many warbirds and piston aircraft and none sound like they do in DCS.

 

 

DCS (and many sims) problem with audio is not always that the raw sound files are bad, it's often due to the way the totality of sound effects end up getting mixed together.

In many cases, the -0DB limit is used for all audio files (I am not saying this is the case with DCS), so everything is effectively normalised. Äunder such a scenario, a 1 second wav file sound of a car door closing has the same peak as a 1 second explosion sound. And once a file hits the limit, there is nowhere to go when it comes to increasing the gain - becasue digital distortion will occur.

 

In real life, this digital max dB limit for sound doesn't exist. If one noise source has more sound-power than another it just does . . . there'as no scaling required.

 

Furthermore, games have real trouble with attenuation and refelction of sound. Most don't even bother to model reflective sound at all - it would take as much computational power as ray tracing for light (more potentially if you take stereophonics into account).

Attenuation is (generally) proportional to the square of sound frequency, so different tones attentuate differently . . . some stuff "sounds louder" at distance, even though it comes from a source with the same sound power.

Games alsmot never replicate this - the simply just drop the overall gain of a file's playback with distance from the source. The result is a muchless dynamic sound profile over distance - unlike in real life.

 

In addition, even if a game did have a high-fidelity recording of an engine from real life to use, the software would still need to do the following

1. Adjust the frequeny of the sound file to account for all the miniscule RPM variations

2. Find a way to distinguish between airborn and structure borne noise and vibreation, and then reproduce the relevant audible tones

3. Attenuate/ interefere alongside all the other sounds in the environment

Each of these modifications will make the sound more synthetic, adding in artifacts and removing fideilty.

 

My suggestion is that the best way to "fix" audio for a flight sim is to adjust the sliders in game to heavily prejudice the engines (fortunately DCS is quite customisable like this) and maybe to get a decent ASIO sound card and high-quliaty headphones or monitor speakers. Adding an EQ to your audio output can work wonders too.

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, that wasn't exactly "copied", that was produced as M-25 under license (paying fees and everything, just with metric stuff) and later on M-25 was developed into M-62/3 and further.

 

 

S!

 

Yes, you are right. But even this dont bring ash82 any closer to bmw801 :) BMW 801 develops like twice the power


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DCS (and many sims) problem with audio is not always that the raw sound files are bad, it's often due to the way the totality of sound effects end up getting mixed together.

In many cases, the -0DB limit is used for all audio files (I am not saying this is the case with DCS), so everything is effectively normalised. Äunder such a scenario, a 1 second wav file sound of a car door closing has the same peak as a 1 second explosion sound. And once a file hits the limit, there is nowhere to go when it comes to increasing the gain - becasue digital distortion will occur.

 

In real life, this digital max dB limit for sound doesn't exist. If one noise source has more sound-power than another it just does . . . there'as no scaling required.

 

Furthermore, games have real trouble with attenuation and refelction of sound. Most don't even bother to model reflective sound at all - it would take as much computational power as ray tracing for light (more potentially if you take stereophonics into account).

Attenuation is (generally) proportional to the square of sound frequency, so different tones attentuate differently . . . some stuff "sounds louder" at distance, even though it comes from a source with the same sound power.

Games alsmot never replicate this - the simply just drop the overall gain of a file's playback with distance from the source. The result is a muchless dynamic sound profile over distance - unlike in real life.

 

In addition, even if a game did have a high-fidelity recording of an engine from real life to use, the software would still need to do the following

1. Adjust the frequeny of the sound file to account for all the miniscule RPM variations

2. Find a way to distinguish between airborn and structure borne noise and vibreation, and then reproduce the relevant audible tones

3. Attenuate/ interefere alongside all the other sounds in the environment

Each of these modifications will make the sound more synthetic, adding in artifacts and removing fideilty.

 

My suggestion is that the best way to "fix" audio for a flight sim is to adjust the sliders in game to heavily prejudice the engines (fortunately DCS is quite customisable like this) and maybe to get a decent ASIO sound card and high-quliaty headphones or monitor speakers. Adding an EQ to your audio output can work wonders too.

 

Great analysis.

 

If I may add:


  •  
  • Human hearing follows very specific and mathematically described rules.
     
    These rules led to the HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function). If a 3D sound environment implements this modeling, and uses binaural recordings, everything comes to life using a pair of headphones.
     
    You can compare this to "VR for sound" in a certain way.
     
     
  • Every solid object traveling through air generates a typical sound (like a flanger on pink noise) and the "breaking" of the air around the object introduces a modulation of the original sound source (like a phaser that changes speed consonant to the doppler effect).
     
    This effect summed to the doppler effect and the distant reflections, modeled through HRTF, gives the sounds that we hear in real life when an airplane (or a car, or an helicopter) passes by.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you saying that you have heard bf190 k4 and fw190 D9 ??

ED claims that sounds are from real recordings when this is possible.

And i will never accept sounds recorded by some crapy things like videos on youtube.

 

I was talking in general about the warbirds. I have heard many P-51s, Spitfires, P-47s. Neither the Mustang or the Spitfire sound like the real life counterparts; and yes hearing a high quality sound recording from a video with mustang's and a bf109 I would say it is pretty accurate.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cleary you haven't. None of them sound anything like the real life counterparts I'm afraid.

 

I have seen many warbirds and piston aircraft and none sound like they do in DCS.

Maybe my four trips to Duxford didn't happen, but last time I just wondered being there how close everything sounded to the sim, fly bys, aircraft taxiing, take offs, start-ups, everything. If you look for feeling the roar in your chest, the smell and everything that's not gonna happen ever neither in DCS or any other game/audio setting.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... and yes hearing a high quality sound recording from a video with mustang's and a bf109 I would say it is pretty accurate.
Well, most of the time I wouldn't, videos usually never depict the thing like it was, and YT is plagued with cellphone videos which tend to be really bad in audio.

 

 

Anyway as we know indeed (said several times here) DCS is recorded at Duxford place from real aircraft, one of the few things I think we can do is getting better audio cards and audio devices to honour the original sound quality.

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was talking in general about the warbirds. I have heard many P-51s, Spitfires, P-47s. Neither the Mustang or the Spitfire sound like the real life counterparts; and yes hearing a high quality sound recording from a video with mustang's and a bf109 I would say it is pretty accurate.

 

Having flown a two-seater Spit, I can tell you that the internal sounds are almost spot-on, for the Spit at least.

 

Externally, they could be better but they have improved even in the last year. Just last night sat on dispersal watching a buddy takeoff in a P-51 and it sounded recognisably like a Mustang taking off; not exactly, but the characteristics were damn close.

 

Flybys are still lacking that certain something but as alluded to earlier by others here, the complex nature of varying attenuation of sound levels depending on their frequency and Doppler effects are always going to be a challenge.

 

Also bear in mind you are not listening to pre-recorded samples, but a sound engine that attempts to synthesise the sounds - Christ, the sheer number of samples required to try and match every combination of Manifold Pressure and RPM alone would be staggering and unwieldy in terms of file size.

 

Add to that the following problems:

 

a) most of the engines these days are rarely run anywhere over max continuous cos they're kinda expensive, you know. So how do you get a sample set of an engine running full bore at WEP if no-one's gonna let you operate their priceless pride and joy at that power regime?

 

b) so how do you propose to record the external sound of a Mustang/Spitfire/109/*insert warbird name here* doing 400mph? Where are you gonna put the microphone so you don't get 400mph of wind noise? Even 10mph of wind noise can ruin a recording. Recording from the ground gives great flyby samples but how useful is that? How do you tell at which point in the sample represents the 0 Doppler moment? Is that snippet actually long enough to make a meaningful sample that can be looped? How far away is the aircraft at that point? What frequency losses might be incurred? Will it sound right still at a camera viewpoint 5m from the aircraft? What about 5km?

 

Getting this right takes a huge amount of time, resources and knowledge and is an evolving process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having flown a two-seater Spit, I can tell you that the internal sounds are almost spot-on, for the Spit at least.

 

Externally, they could be better but they have improved even in the last year. Just last night sat on dispersal watching a buddy takeoff in a P-51 and it sounded recognisably like a Mustang taking off; not exactly, but the characteristics were damn close.

 

Flybys are still lacking that certain something but as alluded to earlier by others here, the complex nature of varying attenuation of sound levels depending on their frequency and Doppler effects are always going to be a challenge.

 

Also bear in mind you are not listening to pre-recorded samples, but a sound engine that attempts to synthesise the sounds - Christ, the sheer number of samples required to try and match every combination of Manifold Pressure and RPM alone would be staggering and unwieldy in terms of file size.

 

Add to that the following problems:

 

a) most of the engines these days are rarely run anywhere over max continuous cos they're kinda expensive, you know. So how do you get a sample set of an engine running full bore at WEP if no-one's gonna let you operate their priceless pride and joy at that power regime?

 

b) so how do you propose to record the external sound of a Mustang/Spitfire/109/*insert warbird name here* doing 400mph? Where are you gonna put the microphone so you don't get 400mph of wind noise? Even 10mph of wind noise can ruin a recording. Recording from the ground gives great flyby samples but how useful is that? How do you tell at which point in the sample represents the 0 Doppler moment? Is that snippet actually long enough to make a meaningful sample that can be looped? How far away is the aircraft at that point? What frequency losses might be incurred? Will it sound right still at a camera viewpoint 5m from the aircraft? What about 5km?

 

Getting this right takes a huge amount of time, resources and knowledge and is an evolving process.

 

I totally agree with you, i will add that DCS actually has the best flyby sounds, comparing this t other sims DCS sound are much better.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Many thanks DD_Fenrir for the detailed answer. As a sound designer - I fully agree to your every word)

Yes, flybys sound recorded from the ground is useless for us. We should re-create it by many sounds and sound engine and a lot of code. It is not too simple.

But we do not stand still. Each new module released sounds better than the previous one. And I'm sure you will really like the sound of the P47 from a series of WW2-birds. There we were able to improve the sound scheme specifically for flybys.

Some modules were released many years ago. Therefore, their level is slightly behind modern. We will upgrade their sound necessarily as soon as free time appears.

 

I really don’t know a simulator where flybys would sound better than ours. Especially in jets.


Edited by btd

Best regards,

Kanstantsin Kuzniatsou (btd)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don’t know a simulator where flybys would sound better than ours. Especially in jets.

 

Agree, flyby sounds are the best of all sims i've played.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks DD_Fenrir for the detailed answer. As a sound designer - I fully agree to your every word)

Yes, flybys sound recorded from the ground is useless for us. We should re-create it by many sounds and sound engine and a lot of code. It is not too simple.

But we do not stand still. Each new module released sounds better than the previous one. And I'm sure you will really like the sound of the P47 from a series of WW2-birds. There we were able to improve the sound scheme specifically for flybys.

Some modules were released many years ago. Therefore, their level is slightly behind modern. We will upgrade their sound necessarily as soon as free time appears.

 

I really don’t know a simulator where flybys would sound better than ours. Especially in jets.

 

This is my point. The older modules are lacking in the sound quality. They are long overdue for an upgrade. I have noticed many sound mods which put the sounds closer to reality than the default sounds, which are developed by one single person so I do not understand why a company with access to the aircraft is so off.

 

I can think of at least 2 sims which have slightly better sounds on their ww2 aircraft however I cannot mention them due to rule breaking.

 

The F18 and F16 sounds are really good and are a vast improvement on times past. It is important to be able to recognise when things need to be improved.


Edited by hazzer

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Sorry, but we also have one person making sounds. It's me. And I do not make one module, but a large number of them. There are also sounds of weather, tanks, ships, helicopters, nature, shots, damage, water, radio chatters, for missions and many many others. There are already many thousands of them. Ah ... sometimes I also write music for modules. Unfortunately, I cannot always update what was done many years ago. But always, when there is time, I do it. Recently, for example, the MiG-29 was updated. I hope you enjoyed the new sound.

Anyway, you can always use sound mods, if you like it. DCS is much more than me with my sounds. This is its charm ;)


Edited by btd

Best regards,

Kanstantsin Kuzniatsou (btd)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but we also have one person making sounds. It's me. And I do not make one module, but a large number of them. There are also sounds of weather, tanks, ships, helicopters, nature, shots, damage, water, radio chatters, for missions and many many others. There are already many thousands of them. Ah ... sometimes I also write music for modules. Unfortunately, I cannot always update what was done many years ago. But always, when there is time, I do it. Recently, for example, the MiG-29 was updated. I hope you enjoyed the new sound.

Anyway, you can always use sound mods, if you like it. DCS is much more than me with my sounds. This is its charm ;)

 

 

If you ever wantd help with sound development.. there are quiet a few of us in the community with high-end audio gear (musicians etc..) . . just sayin'

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Your help is testing carefully and write about it. And of course you can always write me in PM.

In this topic, the author wants us to make sounds from other models of engines than in our simulator. This only complicates the work, taking time that is always missing :)

Best regards,

Kanstantsin Kuzniatsou (btd)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your help is testing carefully and write about it. And of course you can always write me in PM.

In this topic, the author wants us to make sounds from other models of engines than in our simulator. This only complicates the work, taking time that is always missing :)

 

Applying sound of Griffon Spitfire(5 blade prop) to Merlin Spitfire(4 blade prop) make no sense for me anyway.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...