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Swastika/Hakenkreuz


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  • 3 weeks later...

Informationnal question, no polemic.

In which countries is the swastika (nazi symbol, not the good luck symbol) public representation punishable by law ?

((context) means that swastika (nazi symbol) public representation is authorized under context and/or authorization : historical film, academic, art, ...)

- Germany (context)

- Poland

- Hungary (context)

- France (context)

- Brasil

- and ? (there are +/- 193 countries, please add if you know, hope ED legal service can help)

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What difference does it make ?

 

I'd have thought from E.D.'s point of view, 1 reasonable sized country (say Poland ?) having it illegal would have made it a no brainer to leave it out.

 

Not having it in doesn't stop it selling in any country or selling a standard version on steam.

 

Having it in would mean there has to be separate versions / steam versions for different countries, and additional costs coding and maintaining retail streams for those versions.

 

If people admire the technological responses of the German people,and want to re-create the tactics and battles of WWII - great, you don't need a swastika on your aircraft to do that.

 

If people want it because to not have it isn't 'historically accurate', neither is not having the Normandy Map's trains' cattle cars full of people heading off to Paris for delivery to concentration camps. Should they be added ? Should the concentration / labour camps on the channel islands also be included for historical accuracy ? These things are not needed to make the combat historically accurate, they're needed to 'play Nazi's'

 

If it's that people want to 'play Nazi's' - that people want to have the swastika because somehow it's 'cool', well maybe ask yourself what exactly it is about the emblem & its associations you think is cool... ?

Yes they had stylish uniforms, and the Swastika has been used for millennia because it is a natural piece of graphic design, but they used the authority of those uniforms and that symbol to terrorise much of Europe, and to slaughter millions of Unionists, Communists, Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Homosexuals... Not to mention that 26 Million Russians died fighting the regime that the Swastika symbolises.

 

& if people want it because of its association with that regime, I'd be disgusted with E.D. if they pandered to that market.

Cheers.

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What difference does it make ?

 

I'd have thought from E.D.'s point of view, 1 reasonable sized country (say Poland ?) having it illegal would have made it a no brainer to leave it out. Using this logic leads to a lowest common denominator approach. Anything one country disapproves of, all country's lose. While the swastika's ban in some nations is understandable, and I see ED having the default skin without the swastika as a safe decision, it takes minimal effort to offer an historically accurate alternative that could be enabled. Considering how passionate many WWII sim pilots are, I'm not sure making it completely unavailable is quite as much of a no brainer as you suppose.

 

Not having it in doesn't stop it selling in any country or selling a standard version on steam.

 

Having it in would mean there has to be separate versions / steam versions for different countries, and additional costs coding and maintaining retail streams for those versions.

 

If people admire the technological responses of the German people,and want to re-create the tactics and battles of WWII - great, you don't need a swastika on your aircraft to do that.

 

If people want it because to not have it isn't 'historically accurate', neither is not having the Normandy Map's trains' cattle cars full of people heading off to Paris for delivery to concentration camps. Should they be added ? Should the concentration / labour camps on the channel islands also be included for historical accuracy ? These things are not needed to make the combat historically accurate, they're needed to 'play Nazi's' This is a silly argument. It's a flight sim, so having historically accurate liveries is germane to the product. I'm not aware, however, of any historical role that concentration camps played in the air war, thus no one needs them to feel the air war is modeled accurately. I've never even heard anyone ask for them, so why do you feel it's relevant here other than as an attempt to mock those who want historically accurate paint schemes?

 

If it's that people want to 'play Nazi's' - that people want to have the swastika because somehow it's 'cool', well maybe ask yourself what exactly it is about the emblem & its associations you think is cool... ?

Yes they had stylish uniforms, and the Swastika has been used for millennia because it is a natural piece of graphic design, but they used the authority of those uniforms and that symbol to terrorise much of Europe, and to slaughter millions of Unionists, Communists, Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Homosexuals... Not to mention that 26 Million Russians died fighting the regime that the Swastika symbolises.

 

& if people want it because of its association with that regime, I'd be disgusted with E.D. if they pandered to that market. While I agree with your sentiments that it would be disgusting to pander to anyone wanting to live out some silly nazi fantasy, I highly doubt that's the issue here. In 25 years of flight simming, mostly in WWII sims, I can honestly say I've never seen anyone espouse such a viewpoint. My experience has been that flight simmers are more mature than most gaming communities (I also play MMORPGs and 1st person shooters) and that while they are passionate about historical accuracy, flying a german bird does not in any way mean they like nazis.

 

Weta, my thoughts differ greatly from yours. In particular, I think you are ascribing motivations to your fellow sim pilots that aren't there. My thoughts are bolded in the quote above.

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What difference does it make ?

 

I'd have thought from E.D.'s point of view, 1 reasonable sized country (say Poland ?) having it illegal would have made it a no brainer to leave it out.

 

Not having it in doesn't stop it selling in any country or selling a standard version on steam.

 

Having it in would mean there has to be separate versions / steam versions for different countries, and additional costs coding and maintaining retail streams for those versions.

 

If people admire the technological responses of the German people,and want to re-create the tactics and battles of WWII - great, you don't need a swastika on your aircraft to do that.

 

If people want it because to not have it isn't 'historically accurate', neither is not having the Normandy Map's trains' cattle cars full of people heading off to Paris for delivery to concentration camps. Should they be added ? Should the concentration / labour camps on the channel islands also be included for historical accuracy ? These things are not needed to make the combat historically accurate, they're needed to 'play Nazi's'

 

If it's that people want to 'play Nazi's' - that people want to have the swastika because somehow it's 'cool', well maybe ask yourself what exactly it is about the emblem & its associations you think is cool... ?

Yes they had stylish uniforms, and the Swastika has been used for millennia because it is a natural piece of graphic design, but they used the authority of those uniforms and that symbol to terrorise much of Europe, and to slaughter millions of Unionists, Communists, Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Homosexuals... Not to mention that 26 Million Russians died fighting the regime that the Swastika symbolises.

 

& if people want it because of its association with that regime, I'd be disgusted with E.D. if they pandered to that market.

 

You're mixing things up. There is a difference between having a swastika on your aircraft and wanting all trains to head to Paris or whatever... I'll leave it at that. What I will say though, is that I understand ED's point of view. Swastika being illegal in some countries makes it quite problematic to enable it in the game.

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Hi Weta43,

 

 

To reply to your question : What difference does it make ? nothing.

Don't see malice in my question.

As i wrote, this is just an informationnal question and no polemic.

To be clear, i do not want to discuss about ED policies, ED business plan or Coding methodology, i respect and follow them as i respect you by replying to your question.

To be more clear, i agree with what you wrote.

To be more, more clear, having or not a swastika on my plane : I DO NOT CARE

 

BUT !

Your answer does not reply to my question. I have made some surch about this and found those countries who ban, other (US, UK, Spain,...) don't.

To improve my knowledge and with the goal of information, i ask this here as some must know, saying "It is simply against the law in many countries in europe to show or use Nazi Symbols in Video games and in therefore forbidden." . So good reply would be : - a country i know the law against swastika. Another good reply would be : - i don't know.

 

 

Regards.


Edited by Scoll

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