Former Hornet Pilots Fly Together in DCS (in VR)

Gonky and I tried a flight together in DCS: F/A-18 in multiplayer, this time we both used VR. The results were much different than the first video.

 

 

And here's Gonky's take.

 

 

Hope you all enjoy it! Thanks for the feedback from the last videos!

Thanks so much for the video. I really enjoyed and glad you got to try it out in VR. Love the videos. Hope to see more.

Thanks

Thanks fellas... having only ever been a sim pilot .... it’s good to hear how the tech and software compares to the life it’s modelled on.....

IMHO VR and the immersion it brings takes flight sims to the next level... Having come from key presses to look around modding the PS3 Cam, then TrackIR to VR, yes you lose resolution but once you try it I reckon you’ll be hooked.....

Jim

Nice.

So, did ED find out what caused F-18 to be that draggy and underperforming on high AOA?

Great videos and cool respectful debrief on each others performance.

Thanks Mover, glad you're getting into and enjoying it now. It'as always more fun watching the serious flying (even if you hit the ground haha). Maybe one day you could have a DCS setup yourself?

Nice.

So, did ED find out what caused F-18 to be that draggy and underperforming on high AOA?

Some of it might be classified. If you watch some blue angels video's, they are really talky during the high alfa.

The drag is a unknown for me.

Blue Angels jets are stripped of all unnecessary equipment and are much lighter, and much sleeker than a fleet standard Hornet. It takes time for the real pilots to adjust from the drag change when they start training as a Blue.

One thing I noticed that Gonky said in his video was that the speedbrake isn’t used in the break? (23:30 in the video)

I think that this is the first time I’ve heard that?

Great videos, looked like fun was had!

One thing I noticed that Gonky said in his video was that the speedbrake isn’t used in the break? (23:30 in the video)

I think that this is the first time I’ve heard that?

Great videos, looked like fun was had!

Short brakes are done by simply pulling the stick really hard to bleed off speed.

comment in the video on dogfighting:

"In the real FA-18 it's much easier to aim guns. The movements of stick versus target are a lot more precise .. " (in so many words)

Hint?

Awesome plane DCS

(BTW I can hardly believe dogfighting can be a thing in 2018 like in Korea or even Vietnam - more by accidental run-ins on RTB then anything else - , it's all missiles now or nothing, or perhaps strafing a civilian)

Hey Mover, so great to see you two actually enjoying playing our hobby! You know watching the first video you posted, a little part of me died inside watching you struggle with the interfaces of the sim, thinking just a bit more time setting up your switchology and interfaces would have made you a little less frustrated. But it seems someone set you up a little better this time around and you and your friend could have a blast this time around!

With the lack of external inputs (G, buffet etc), it's pretty hard to notice you are falling out of the sky in a sim, but it comes with practice! We have to make up with other senses like the audio and lots of reference to aoa and ias. Since Eagle Dynamics gave us the JHMCS we now have speed and AoA in our faces off boresight so we can get a bit better at managing the aircraft without those external sensations.

Welcome to the VR club, glad you can moan with us about resolution and look forward to the next VR generation!

thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed the vids. Especially from real world Bug drivers.

Gonky and I tried a flight together in DCS: F/A-18 in multiplayer, this time we both used VR. The results were much different than the first video.

 

 

And here's Gonky's take.

 

 

Hope you all enjoy it! Thanks for the feedback from the last videos!

Thanks for your insight mover it’s great to get feedback from people with experience of flying the hornet.

Pixel density in DCS VR settings will improve the clarity of visuals in cockpit but of course the greater the pixel density the more powerful your PC needs to be.

One thing I have as well is a long extension on my warthog stick. Since getting it I could never go back to the standard warthog stick, the precision it provides in my opinion is so much better I would urge everybody to try it. I’m sure as you pointed out in your video that you will never replicate what it’s like to feel the real stick in the Hornet. But it’s an improvement.

Hey Mover, so great to see you two actually enjoying playing our hobby! You know watching the first video you posted, a little part of me died inside watching you struggle with the interfaces of the sim, thinking just a bit more time setting up your switchology and interfaces would have made you a little less frustrated. But it seems someone set you up a little better this time around and you and your friend could have a blast this time around!

 

 

With the lack of external inputs (G, buffet etc), it's pretty hard to notice you are falling out of the sky in a sim, but it comes with practice! We have to make up with other senses like the audio and lots of reference to aoa and ias. Since Eagle Dynamics gave us the JHMCS we now have speed and AoA in our faces off boresight so we can get a bit better at managing the aircraft without those external sensations.

 

 

Welcome to the VR club, glad you can moan with us about resolution and look forward to the next VR generation!

HAHAHAHA.. I know what you mean. When Mover said that he couldn't use the canopy as a quick reference to targets, rule of thumbs of "fist height", can't padlock, etc., I was crying out, but...but...but in VR is so much easier!

I'm glad they got another chance. The "Holy $hit this looks real" was all I need to hear. We can't ever solve the lack of G (even with sim/vibration chairs) or buffeting of the aircraft, but everything else is getting closer to reality. VR resolution is getting better ever 18 months or so (DK1, DK2, CV1) so the next version should be exciting.

They sure looked smooth, especially when they RTB'd and did the final CCRP/CCIP? drop.

I'd love to see you guys in a few months from now after maybe having a chance to get more comfortable with the Sim. As pilots in reality, you literally flew by the seat of your pants, or should I say flew by feeling the forces (maybe that makes you Jedi's). The longer you fly a sim, the more you build up other senses. However, I don't know if this is bad to do for someone who is still flying as you are.

I would like to make this my next investment

https://www.yawvr.com

It looks like a great bit of kit and folds away nicely.

Not sure I could use a warthog with an extension with it though sadly.

Blue Angels jets are stripped of all unnecessary equipment and are much lighter, and much sleeker than a fleet standard Hornet. It takes time for the real pilots to adjust from the drag change when they start training as a Blue.

Airframe is the same ...and it is a big factor in the aoa arena. I stand by my claim :)

Edit: might be slightly better on a blue angel jet but not by much (10% ish)

I would like to make this my next investment

 

https://www.yawvr.com

 

It looks like a great bit of kit and folds away nicely.

Not sure I could use a warthog with an extension with it though sadly.

That looks AWESOME. My only skepticism is that in all the videos I didn't see them use a HOTAS that is attached to a desktop.

They got a giant fat guy to demonstrate the weight, they had another dude doing some 360 stuff with a laptop literally in his lap but nothing external.

Until I see them, or someone does a review where they show me that you aren't winding your cord(s) to death with a 360-degree chair I'm hesitant. I don't really see how you could avoid that short of a software restriction that limits you to 180 degrees or something forward or just buying like a 70ft+ USB cable so it won't matter.

I would like to make this my next investment

 

https://www.yawvr.com

 

It looks like a great bit of kit and folds away nicely.

Not sure I could use a warthog with an extension with it though sadly.

Exactly.

In all honesty it takes some time to get comfortable with DCS as a sim. We learn from the SIM up. Pilots have to unlearn stuff - amazing how many of them can't remember where stuff is. It makes sense, you would just use the tool IRL and have muscle memory. Take the Harrier pilot on Lex's last video for instance... It does take a while before you make the sim input's your own and learn to drive better. Since we begin with the interface, spend an age binding (my process lasts over many sessions), we naturally zoom ahead on very basic stuff.

What we want to see, is once all that is overcome, what got unlearned, what made sense, because pilots every time, instantly complain about the interfaces being "wrong". This was apparent with Mover, Lex, Lex's Harrier friend, a Wags episode on the fighter podcast with another Hornet driver. And that is a big put off for pilots to prevent them getting into DCS as a sim. And I get it... it's not real, it's not the same, barrier up...

HAHAHAHA.. I know what you mean. When Mover said that he couldn't use the canopy as a quick reference to targets, rule of thumbs of "fist height", can't padlock, etc., I was crying out, but...but...but in VR is so much easier!

 

 

I'm glad they got another chance. The "Holy $hit this looks real" was all I need to hear. We can't ever solve the lack of G (even with sim/vibration chairs) or buffeting of the aircraft, but everything else is getting closer to reality. VR resolution is getting better ever 18 months or so (DK1, DK2, CV1) so the next version should be exciting.

 

 

They sure looked smooth, especially when they RTB'd and did the final CCRP/CCIP? drop.

Exactly.

In all honesty it takes some time to get comfortable with DCS as a sim. We learn from the SIM up. Pilots have to unlearn stuff - amazing how many of them can't remember where stuff is. It makes sense, you would just use the tool IRL and have muscle memory. Take the Harrier pilot on Lex's last video for instance... It does take a while before you make the sim input's your own and learn to drive better. Since we begin with the interface, spend an age binding (my process lasts over many sessions), we naturally zoom ahead on very basic stuff.

 

 

What we want to see, is once all that is overcome, what got unlearned, what made sense, because pilots every time, instantly complain about the interfaces being "wrong". This was apparent with Mover, Lex, Lex's Harrier friend, a Wags episode on the fighter podcast with another Hornet driver. And that is a big put off for pilots to prevent them getting into DCS as a sim. And I get it... it's not real, it's not the same, barrier up...

Spot on. Imagine asking Lewis Hamilton to drive in a car racing with Thrustmaster/MadKatz wheels and pedals. LOL. Multiply that by 100 and you quickly understand why it's hard to adapt to sim level hardware.

I once wrote that SIMNET that I trained in 30 years ago was laughingly bad in graphics. But the 1 to 1 replica of the actual Brandley controls is why the training was valuable. As Mover/Gonky put it, simulators are procedural trainer and not really a BFM trainer.

But one can argue that with VR, it's getting closer to leaving the "procedural only" trainer mode.

We just need this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/feel-three-virtual-reality-motion-simulator--2#/

Then this one:

http://maxflight.com/

or

LOL. One can hope. But w/o the G force nailing you to the chair, I can see how it can get annoying fast.

Great stuff! Luv your videos @mover!

Great video Mover. Really enjoyed it.

I would love to see a detailed breakdown of a sortie covering procedures/comms from start to finish if you were inclined! :)

have to say just one thing: awsome videos, please don't stop.

thank all of you

P.S.: about immersion: don't grab "the stick in the middle" too hard! could be painful ;)

I would love to see these guys with better setups. Joystick on the right like an F-16...............really?

They have no idea how to do basic stuff etc.....man give them half an hour to get the basics. They maybe fighter pilots but they don't know your rig....man oh man!