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G940 - Force Feedback - discussion


fred41

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/465537731750133762/619487142510460929/IMG_20190906_125857.jpg?width=649&height=866

 

 

@fred41

 

I just finished to build this monster. Can i ask for a firmware feature? I'm one of those who kept the hands on/hands off sensor taped for FFB always on. Now i would like to exclude the sensor from this build, that would need the whole functionality being disabled in the firmware (for FFB always on). Would it be possible for you to provide such a special version of the firmware?


Edited by Alec Delorean

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/465537731750133762/619487142510460929/IMG_20190906_125857.jpg?width=649&height=866

 

 

@fred41

 

I just finished to build this monster. Can i ask for a firmware feature? I'm one of those who kept the hands on/hands off sensor taped for FFB always on. Now i would like to exclude the sensor from this build, that would need the whole functionality being disabled in the firmware (for FFB always on). Would it be possible for you to provide such a special version of the firmware?

 

 

... maybe there is a much more simple solution for this problem ...

 

If i understand you correctly, you are using the original logitech PCB from inside the G940 grip in your new virpil grip and you wish to simulate an always taped deadman switch, right?

 

If so, just look for J7 at the bigger PCB (where the 4 wire flat cable to the deadman switch PCB is soldered). Disconnecting (desoldering) pin 1 should do the trick.

In case this gives you an 'always untapped' result, you need to connect this pad to ground.

 

 

 

Let me know ...


Edited by fred41
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Hey fred41,

 

 

actually, it's the other way around. I completely ditched the grip and it's pcbs and connected a complete Virpil WarBRD circuit (Virpil USB controller is also hidden in the G940 base). The problem now is, if the deadman sensor isn't connected, the G940 base will always start with FFB in "standby" mode. If a game like DCS is running, i need to re-connect the old grip PCB (kept it's cable in the base) and touch the sensor to enable full FFB. Atm i touch it and disconnect the cable at the same time, this way FFB stays enabled for this session. I have to do this everytime :( which is a bit inconvenient.

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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Hey fred41,

 

 

actually, it's the other way around. I completely ditched the grip and it's pcbs and connected a complete Virpil WarBRD circuit (Virpil USB controller is also hidden in the G940 base). The problem now is, if the deadman sensor isn't connected, the G940 base will always start with FFB in "standby" mode. If a game like DCS is running, i need to re-connect the old grip PCB (kept it's cable in the base) and touch the sensor to enable full FFB. Atm i touch it and disconnect the cable at the same time, this way FFB stays enabled for this session. I have to do this everytime :( which is a bit inconvenient.

 

 

... check the ffb_experimental branch of my repository:

 

https://github.com/fred41/G940-firmware-fixes/tree/ffb_experimental

 

... and better don't torture your G940 gimbal to much, with this heavy grip :cry:

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Congratulations, you have achieved what Logitech never finished.

 

Unfortunately for me I read this after modifying my throttle using a ProMicro (Mastertec´s mod) to separate the axes of the Logitech controller. Anyway I think that your firmware is useful for improving the operation of the Stick, so I will update it :).

 

However I do not know what is the current firmware of my G940, how can I know? If it was already 1.42, would something happen?

 

I understand that the process is to patch the 1.42 executable with your patch and then apply the resulting executable, is that correct?

 

Thank you very much for your work.

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@Necro,

 

i would try the following:

 

1. run the unpatched 1.42 executable, to ensure G940 is uptodate

2. make a backup of the unpatched 1.42 executable

3. patch the 1.42 executable, to apply the improvements to executable

4. run the patched 1.42 executable, to apply the improvements to your G940

 

 

Greetings,

Fred41

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Hello again,

We have installed your firmware (two different G940) and my partner says that now the accelerator is going much better, the pedals also notice more accurate. I still have not been able to try them well but it has given me that feeling :).

 

One thing that I have noticed, that already existed before in the G940 and that I did not notice in my Sidewinder is the following fact:

 

At a given speed, when I apply ailerons, in the G940 the force is practically the same regardless of the deflection of the ailerons starting with an already strong value. In the sidewinder this force does depend on deflection, being initially very small and if we deflect more the ailerons, it is greater.

 

This happens to me the IL2-BoS and DCS. It will surely be a thing of the G940 configuration, and if it is not, is it possible to modify it via firmware?

 

Thanks in advance

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The detailed FFB behavoir is usually configurable in your simulation application.

 

For applications that does'nt support the FFB api, there is a windows tool called 'simFFB',

made to setup some condition effects, like spring and damper, in the background.

 

You will find a special version of 'simFFB' in the first page of this thread.

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  • 1 month later...

As I have the G940 stashed somewhere, the rubberized coat became rather sticky, though, but I'll try out this firmware update for sure.

 

But, as I remember, it had a 3-position mode switch on it, which unfortunately wasn't mapped to the DX buttons and was thus only visible and usable by the Logitech programming software (which was pretty bad).

 

Do you think it's something you could mod perhaps with the firmware or it's part of the drivers? I presume the latter, but had to ask. Thanks.

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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... for the sticky rubber: try talcum or try to remove the sticky coating comletely (isopropyl may help) ...

 

The mode switch position is reported by the firmware, together with all other buttons and axis.

It is the driver, that translates the mode switch position to profile selection (iirc).

 

If you are on windows 10 and familiar with c, programming, you could write your own driver:

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/hid/virtual-hid-framework--vhf-

 

BTW: your signature calls lovely memories to my first pc,

except my budget limited me to a 386sx16 and 2mb RAM,

but at least i got a 387sx too :)

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... for the sticky rubber: try talcum or try to remove the sticky coating comletely (isopropyl may help) ...

 

The mode switch position is reported by the firmware, together with all other buttons and axis.

It is the driver, that translates the mode switch position to profile selection (iirc).

 

If you are on windows 10 and familiar with c, programming, you could write your own driver:

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/hid/virtual-hid-framework--vhf-

 

BTW: your signature calls lovely memories to my first pc,

except my budget limited me to a 386sx16 and 2mb RAM,

but at least i got a 387sx too :)

 

Yeah, I'm using some baby powder to make it usable. Not a great solution, but it gives me better results than trying to remove the stuff with alcohol (which I tried on some headphones and a mouse - the mouse revealed a white semi-transparent plastic underneath so that was a bust).

 

I presumed it's the driver, but had to ask. Definitely not likely I'll find time to get into device driver writing from scratch, especially for the mode switch only. It's something Logitech should have provided in the first place as all other HOTAS have their mode switches mapped to DX buttons by default. Really turned out an unwanted baby for Logitech, the G940, given how shoddy the software was.

 

That 386DX40 was my first PC as well, but I never got the 387 co-processor (there was some q387 emulator for games which required its presence, IIRC). I remember it was quite expensive, so much in fact that my parents didn't get me a new one for like five-six years (the next one was Pentium III 450 - quite a few generations happened in between).

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 6 months later...

Hello fred41!

I installed your modified joystick firmware, now the feedback works fine, thanks! But there were problems with the Y axis, as can be seen in the picture. After installing the stock firmware, the Y axis works from start to finish.

 

Please tell me what is the problem?

 

For testing, I use the JoyTester2.exe utility.

The X axis is working correctly, the minimum value is - 64, the maximum is - 65471, the center is approximately - 32575.

For the Y axis, the value with a center offset is the minimum –5120, the maximum – 65471, the center approximately - 30335.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=238046&stc=1&d=1591040450

G940_problem.jpg.00be761b0cd11a77becb3fb4095c386f.jpg

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Hello BMaxis,

 

thanks for your feedback.

 

You are right, i changed the scale of the x- and y- axis to improve the movement ampitude and the precision of the stick movement (it is using nearly the full movement range now).

 

The problem is: if your hall sensor is not exactly enough in the center, you get what you desribed above. You can try to fix this by moving the hallsensor PCB carefully in the right position.

 

If that doesnt help, please let me know. I can change the scaling to be more tolerant, against misalignd sensors.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again!

I got to the printed circuit board with a hall sensor, disassembling the joystick. Unfortunately, the board cannot be moved, it is fixed with a screw and has special guides, see photo.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=240187&stc=1&d=1592427813

 

I also launched the DXTweak2_x64 program, but in Windows 10 an error constantly pops up, however, the Raw values ​​on the Y axis are displayed on the stock firmware: -510 - 0 - 511

On the modified: -438 - 0 - 510

https://yadi.sk/d/RQQIa6nZRQEWNw

The only problem is the shift from central to extreme up, down works correctly. I asked other people, they have no such problems, it looks like something is wrong with my joystick, but it works without problems on the Y axis on the stock firmware.

Joystick Information:

M / N: J-U0001

P / N: 842-000004

PID: LZ152M1

20200601_114355.thumb.jpg.2593dda543e2f5d3cf62de06e52e4ba1.jpg


Edited by BMaxis
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Hi Gent´s !!!

Would this aply to the Logitech Force 3D to???

Thanks in advance Martim!

MSI Z390 Gaming Plus Intel I7 8700 @4.4Ghz CoolerMaster H411R Corsair LPX 3000Mhz 32GB NVidea GTX 1080 TI XFX650W PNY SSD 256gb win10 64 Samsung SSD480gb DCS,IL21946 WD Caviar Green 1Tb Ultimate Tir5.

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Hi Gent´s !!!

Would this aply to the Logitech Force 3D to???

Thanks in advance Martim!

 

Mostly not. The Force 3D is a completely different FFB stick by software and hardware design. I think the gimbal is sort of similar to the G940, but not as sturdy. I don't know if it uses pots, or a hall effect sensor, but some of the cheaper Logitech FFB sticks do not use hall effect sensors.

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Hi! Morning , thank´s for the answer! Yes it uses Pot´s , actualy it si behaving very well for me in DCS , just trying to squeezy a bit more from it! Always there are very good inputs in this forun!

MSI Z390 Gaming Plus Intel I7 8700 @4.4Ghz CoolerMaster H411R Corsair LPX 3000Mhz 32GB NVidea GTX 1080 TI XFX650W PNY SSD 256gb win10 64 Samsung SSD480gb DCS,IL21946 WD Caviar Green 1Tb Ultimate Tir5.

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I disassembled the joystick again and tried to rotate the magnet, the result:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=240270&stc=1&d=1592494817

 

 

Then I turned the magnet over:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=240271&stc=1&d=1592494817

 

 

He returned the magnet to its original position and put the washer:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=240272&stc=1&d=1592494817

 

 

It became better, but the center of the Y axis is still shifted.

 

fred41, can I ask you to remove the axis offset?

And thank you very much for your work !!!

 

Other photos:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=240264&stc=1&d=1592494262

attachment.php?attachmentid=240265&stc=1&d=1592494262

attachment.php?attachmentid=240274&stc=1&d=1592496258

20200618_155857.thumb.jpg.59b1d7a363f2b9b5d4c4eab23e855fd4.jpg


Edited by BMaxis
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Grr has anyone here got SimFFB working on Windows 10?

 

I had to reinstall my PC after wiping my C: drive out in a "cloning accident".

 

When I try and run the 64bit version of SimFFB I get this:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=245337&stc=1&d=1598018866

 

If I try and copy the MSVCR100.dll from \Windows\Syswow64 to \SimFFB directory that message goes away.

 

but then I get this:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=245338&stc=1&d=1598018866

 

The 32bit version sort of runs but doesn't detect my FFB joystick (I think because it is running on 64bit operating system)

 

This is so frustrating because SimFFB is the only way I like to fly the KA-50 with my G940!

simFFB_MSVCR100_ddl.png.03528a2c50c7b4ead86e8c8fff3e8ab6.png

simFFB_Start.png.6d77a279ff8da9a27296c8f0050bd862.png

Mods I use: KA-50 JTAC - Better Fire and Smoke - Unchain Rudder from trim KA50 - Sim FFB for G940 - Beczl Rocket Pods Updated!

Processor: Intel Q6600 @ 3.00GHz

GPU: GeForce MSI RTX 2060 6GB

RAM: Crucial 8GB DDR2

HDD: 1TBGB Crucial SSD

OS: Windows 10, 64-bit

Peripherals: Logitech G940 Hotas, TrackiR 5, Voice Activated commands , Sharkoon 5.1 headset. ,Touch Control for iPad, JoyToKey

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FS2020 & G940

 

Hello,

 

I am new French user of this forum and have been using FS since its inception.

 

Unfortunately, FS2020 does not use the FFB and the joystick G940 stay in very hard force, in both axes at all times, main "on" or "off"

 

I tested the modified firmware in its latest version with the Simffb and everything is correct again:

- Hard joystick in hand "off"

- soft joystick in hand "on"

This is perfect for the moment (thanks you so much), by reaching "maybe" an evolution of FS2020.

 

But I have to reload the SimFFB after each FS2020 opening.

 

Is this normal?

Thanks for your help

 

(Sorry for my poor English)

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