So about the M2000 FM and current state... - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-13-2019, 10:32 PM   #11
jojo
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Fair enough, point being that they don't care if its not 100%, 80-90% or even 50% is probably just fine for what they want to do with it.

At then end, if it flies like X-wing, it isn't good either. It can create negative training. So they do have to care about FM too.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
Or the nerds around here can quit nitpicking and accept that plus or minus a few percent is close enough. As much as people like to wheeze ''muh immersion digital combat SIMULATOR'' through a cloud of Cheetos dust at the end of the day it's a video game. If folks want it more real, the enlistment office is usually easy to find =)
Could not agree more.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:52 PM   #13
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100 % realism on the FM / FBW of the Mirage in a simulator game is utopic.
But if there is some room for fine tuning - improvement, there is some data / first hand feedback to support that (like flying the real simulator) and AdA doesn't prohibit it, i would say why not improve it ?
If it's not possible then no problem, even the involvement of AdA and the info they provided on the avionics part of the Mirage simulation is a God's gift for all the Mirage freaks

Last edited by jaguara5; 11-14-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:06 PM   #14
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Well, the question is simply, should it be faster, more maneuverable, better to gain speed, height than the F-15 at altitude, let's say they are both on equal footing without weapons and hanging tanks? If so, then there are no questions; if not, then you need to fix it.
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:25 AM   #15
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Yes, for me in general related to a flight simulator like DCS is not about having a 100% perfect FM, cause that might be too difficult to obtain if even possible, given the military nature of those system.

However, there are some certain thresholds you dont want to cross, and those are related to specific flight characteristic or lack of against contemporaries that we may know they exist. Basically what i expect to have more fun is: I want to be able to apply certain tactics against certain types. If the F18 is winning a Sustained turn rate against an F16 I know that is wrong, and that tactic should not be rewarding me with kills cause it wouldnt in RL. In the same way if the M2000 is overperforming an F15 at high altitude or in climbing rate that is something I want fixed. Now if the climb rate in RL is 1850ft/min instead of 1890ft/min in game, that is not even important since i will not be able to discern (obviously if we talk about minor deviations here).

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Old 11-15-2019, 08:03 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
Or the nerds around here can quit nitpicking and accept that plus or minus a few percent is close enough. As much as people like to wheeze ''muh immersion digital combat SIMULATOR'' through a cloud of Cheetos dust at the end of the day it's a video game. If folks want it more real, the enlistment office is usually easy to find =)
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:35 AM   #17
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@falcon120

So the problem then is primarily people playing AirQuake, based on your description there. Perpetual 1v1 wvr duels don't happen in real life. If they did, then all this nonsense with competitions and evaluations when an air force is choosing a new plane wouldn't happen. They'd simply compare stats and purchase the ''best hurdur fightah!!'' However, that doesn't happen, because real life is not AirQuake, and neither is any decent online server.

In any reasonable context, the bulk of complaints, barring the occasional legitimate bug or worthwhile complaint, boil down to nitpicking at best, and anal retention at worst. By all means fix what's easily fixable, but the nonsense ''stat comparison'' minmax mentality of some folks around here makes me cringe.
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
@falcon120

So the problem then is primarily people playing AirQuake, based on your description there. Perpetual 1v1 wvr duels don't happen in real life. If they did, then all this nonsense with competitions and evaluations when an air force is choosing a new plane wouldn't happen. They'd simply compare stats and purchase the ''best hurdur fightah!!'' However, that doesn't happen, because real life is not AirQuake, and neither is any decent online server.

In any reasonable context, the bulk of complaints, barring the occasional legitimate bug or worthwhile complaint, boil down to nitpicking at best, and anal retention at worst. By all means fix what's easily fixable, but the nonsense ''stat comparison'' minmax mentality of some folks around here makes me cringe.
You do have a point that stats alone without context and the implications of a fighter as a weapon SYSTEM are pointless and far more complex that x Fighter turns better. We all know that given any specific performance number is also worthless without stating the conditions under where those apply, even more x fighter might turn better than Y, while at the same time Y fighter might turn better that X fighter at a different speed or altitude.

But, if we are going to analyze a FM of a fighter; while is just part of the equation of the effectiveness of a fighter in a complex scenario, We can agree that the FM is indeed a big part, and also DACT is something that many people including myself loves to practice every now and then. Under this point of view, certain flight features should be set "right" or very close to "right" specially when compared to "adversaries" so the simulation provides this false feeling of correctness/entitlement to RL so everybody can play to be a fighter pilot happily .
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguara5 View Post
100 % realism on the FM / FBW of the Mirage in a simulator game is utopic.
But if there is some room for fine tuning - improvement, there is some data / first hand feedback to support that (like flying the real simulator) and AdA doesn't prohibit it, i would say why not improve it ?
If it's not possible then no problem, even the involvement of AdA and the info they provided on the avionics part of the Mirage simulation is a God's gift for all the Mirage freaks
Yes,and that's the Point for all DCS Modules . I hope they will all tweaking in the most realistic FM in future. We Flight-Simulator fans and don't to play a fighter Game. All others have still the Game-Mode in DCS.





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