Using "throttle for GS and stick for AOA" when landing

I'm not to the Hornets yet, however I remember reading that the baby Hornets would go burner and the rhinos would just go mil, but I could (and probably am) be wrong.

According to the NATOPS manuals all F/A-18 models (A-F) go to MIL upon touchdown. Same goes for the F-14. On the F-4J/S the NATOPS manual says MIL/MAX as required.

You plan to bolter. I'm not to the Hornets yet, however I remember reading that the baby Hornets would go burner and the rhinos would just go mil, but I could (and probably am) be wrong.

I think that's for the cat launch.

"The Super Hornet gets airborne in nearly 1,000 feet less distance and nearly 20 knots slower than the Hornet. On the ship, the procedures are nearly the same as they were in the legacy Hornet, except now the catapult launch is in full flaps and there is no selection of afterburner mid-catstroke. There can still be afterburner shots for certain weights and configurations, but some of those procedures have slightly changed."

From here: https://fightersweep.com/5334/ask-fighter-pilot-hornet-vs-super-hornet/

I think that's for the cat launch.

 

"The Super Hornet gets airborne in nearly 1,000 feet less distance and nearly 20 knots slower than the Hornet. On the ship, the procedures are nearly the same as they were in the legacy Hornet, except now the catapult launch is in full flaps and there is no selection of afterburner mid-catstroke. There can still be afterburner shots for certain weights and configurations, but some of those procedures have slightly changed."

 

From here: https://fightersweep.com/5334/ask-fighter-pilot-hornet-vs-super-hornet/

Yep, I think that's where I remember reading that, I stand corrected.

I always found this confusing andso have disregarded it over the years, and plan to disregard it for the coming CV ops with the Hornet too...BTW does the Lot 20 have an auto throttle?

One for the real F/A-18 pilots. The NATOPS manual states to apply full MIL power at touchdown, but the guy from the above mentioned link wrote:

I always used to go to full afterburner on touchdown in the Hornet, but that is strictly verboten in the Rhino. If you see one do that on YouTube, he’s wrong.

After watching a lot of F/A-18C/D landings on youtube it seems that approx 5-10% of the F/A-18C pilots use AB instead of MIL.

When do you use MIL and when AB, especially since AB apparently isn't according procedure?

One for the real F/A-18 pilots. The NATOPS manual states to apply full MIL power at touchdown, but the guy from the above mentioned link wrote:

 

I always used to go to full afterburner on touchdown in the Hornet, but that is strictly verboten in the Rhino. If you see one do that on YouTube, he’s wrong.

 

After watching a lot of F/A-18C/D landings on youtube it seems that approx 5-10% of the F/A-18C pilots use AB instead of MIL.

 

When do you use MIL and when AB, especially since AB apparently isn't according procedure?

Why would MAX in rhino be forbidden? Sounds like garbage to me.

RHINO = Super Hornet

Thanks skate, very well aware

Why would MAX in rhino be forbidden? Sounds like garbage to me.

I'm guessing that with more powerful engines MAX is unnecessary, and might even lead to loss of control due to greater asymmetric thrust.

I always found this confusing andso have disregarded it over the years, and plan to disregard it for the coming CV ops with the Hornet too...BTW does the Lot 20 have an auto throttle?

Yes it does. Also autoland. :music_whistling:

I always found this confusing andso have disregarded it over the years, and plan to disregard it for the coming CV ops with the Hornet too...

Would be easier to understand it with a Hornet since the longitudinal FCS does active AOA control for you, and all you have to do is to use the throttle to influence pitch.

Wags has posted another F18 video, this time doing a VFR landing on a runway.

https://www.facebook.com/eagle.dynamics/videos/10160126628265341/

It's a great example for the topic of this thread of managing slope and AOA.

Wags has posted another F18 video, this time doing a VFR landing on a runway.

 

https://www.facebook.com/eagle.dynamics/videos/10160126628265341/

 

It's a great example for the topic of this thread of managing slope and AOA.

Great video on the field landing pattern.

Looks like still a very Air Force way of landing:

I'll place the velocity vector on where I want to land and use my throttle to adjust the angle of attack, again keeping a constant 8.1 degrees AoA.

Great video on the field landing pattern.

 

Looks like still a very Air Force way of landing:

Correct, at Navy fields we have the IFLOLS just like we do at the boat so landings are the same. Even only having a PAPI at a civilian field I'll still fly it like the ball as best I can (not nearly as precise).

Pitch for AOA (trimmed you shouldn't have to do anything most of the time in good conditions), power for glideslope.

Correct, at Navy fields we have the IFLOLS just like we do at the boat so landings are the same. Even only having a PAPI at a civilian field I'll still fly it like the ball as best I can (not nearly as precise).

 

 

 

Pitch for AOA (trimmed you shouldn't have to do anything most of the time in good conditions), power for glideslope.

Do you shoot approaches in IMC also with AOA and power ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you shoot approaches in IMC also with AOA and power ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, trimmed up on speed a mile or so prior to the FAF, then just ride it down with power.

Yes, trimmed up on speed a mile or so prior to the FAF, then just ride it down with power.

Interesting. The reason I’m asking is because in civilian aviation for instrument flying instead of “power for altitude, pitch for airspeed” - it actually thought “power for speed pitch for altitude”.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. The reason I’m asking is because in civilian aviation for instrument flying instead of “power for altitude, pitch for airspeed” - it actually thought “power for speed pitch for altitude”.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I flight instructed civilian side before and it was always pitch for A/S (in this case AOA) and power for altitude, even on instrument, but that's besides the point and don't want to go off on a tangent like before in this thread.

Important thing is that this isn't like every other aircraft, and the Navy has to do things a certain way to get aboard the ship consistently. If you're off AOA you don't trap.

I flight instructed civilian side before and it was always pitch for A/S (in this case AOA) and power for altitude, even on instrument, but that's besides the point and don't want to go off on a tangent like before in this thread.

 

 

 

Important thing is that this isn't like every other aircraft, and the Navy has to do things a certain way to get aboard the ship consistently. If you're off AOA you don't trap.

Thanks for info.

It must be long time since flight instructed. PTSs became ACSs and a lot of frustrating things come with that. Of course it’s much different in F-18.

P. S. Once in a while I do checkout for marine aviators for a local club, they are fun guys to fly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I misspoke. Should have been throttle to control glideslope and stick to control AoA.

 

Will correct in the next video... IFR airfield landing and showing off the Hornet's external and internal lighting features.

Looking forward to the next video! Would be great if a little more explanation can be made on this technique since it does cause confusion. :thumbup:

Interesting. The reason I’m asking is because in civilian aviation for instrument flying instead of “power for altitude, pitch for airspeed” - it actually thought “power for speed pitch for altitude”.

Don't know on which planes you instructed but why would you change the method between visual and instrument approaches?

Don't know on which planes you instructed but why would you change the method between visual and instrument approaches?

I’m not that “big” to change anything myself. It’s been a common practice.

I believe it’s due to lack of visual references and complete reliance on instruments. Also small size attitude indicators where you can barely see pitch (unlike modern PFD), lack of AOA indicators in 99% of smaller GA aircraft. Directors like following requires different flying techniques I believe

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like Wags came in a bit low. How is glideslope judged for a carrier and field landing? 3 degrees on the fpm? Visually estimated?

I’m not that “big” to change anything myself. It’s been a common practice.

 

I believe it’s due to lack of visual references and complete reliance on instruments. Also small size attitude indicators where you can barely see pitch (unlike modern PFD), lack of AOA indicators in 99% of smaller GA aircraft. Directors like following requires different flying techniques I believe

I see, but this usually works only for small single engined GA planes. Once you are flying twins and anything heavier/faster, it's easier (and common practise) to stick to one method.

AoA indicators don't play a role because it makes zero difference if you fly the correct speed or the correct AoA during the approach.

The advantage AoA flying is that you don't need to know your precise actual weight and hence you don't need to figure out the corresponding correct approach speed.