Unrealistic Threat Types - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-17-2018, 04:53 AM   #31
75th-VFS-Striker
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
Try it with all the supporting AAA/MANPADS/SHORAD units to the main MERAD/LORAD battery that should also be present. And with the system MEZ overlap that would also exist.

That’ll bring the fear back.
We typically do our missions with most of those supporting units present and linked together.
__________________
Nvidia GTX-970
Intel i7-4820K 3.7 Ghz
ASUS ROG Rampage IV Extreme MB
32 GB Memory
Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
75th-VFS-Striker is offline  
Old 01-17-2018, 06:33 AM   #32
Eddie
Veteran
 
Eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Somewhere in the PG Map
Posts: 4,848
Default

How many/what type of batteries do you typically put in a scenario? I assume you plan it such that you’re taking down just one LORAD/MERAD battery and work your way around the others?

I’d be curious to see an ACMI of such a mission to see how you guys handle it, looking for some IADS layout inspiration for my next scenario.

Have you tried using Grimes’ IADS script?
Eddie is offline  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:26 AM   #33
Kev2go
Senior Member
 
Kev2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75th-VFS-Striker View Post
We do popup attacks against SA-10's, 6's and 11's all the time. If you plan your route out properly and use good terrain avoidance, they're very easy to kill. Definitely no match for an A-10C with 6 AGM-65D's. You're outmatched in a flat terrain environment though. And if people build missions with scattered manpads, you're always looking around for that random missile shot. But otherwise, long range SAM's don't intimidate us like they used to. If I were an Eastern block SAM operator I'd be terrified of the thought of A-10C's and AH-64D Longbows popping up from behind hills and lobbing F&F A2G missiles at me.
Sure if your in it for the challenge. but thats not realistic scenario.


A) A10's would never get sent to partake SEAD mission. ( unless this pops up as the AF idea of finally "retiring" the A10) At the very lest they would be supported By Sead Capable Fighter aircraft.


B) one cannot plan route accordingly if you don;t know exactly beforehand where sams are, and generally speaking you shouldnt,. . S300s and various other systems s can be erected and dismantlement in under 1 hour and moved elsewhere IRL, allowing for them swift transport to cover different sectors in the same day or stage a total ambush in a area Sams would not be expected.

because of this, you shouldn't know exactly where they are, if you really want a realistic scenario, at absolute BEst A general Area. something aking to a kill box, The exception to this would be Airfields or other such very obvious strategic sites that are going to be obviosly going to be defended at all times by a Air Defense layer , otherwise its not so simple to obtain intelligence to be actionable to act on it fast enough, particularily if SAm sites are careful with thier radar Operation.

C) Attacking sam sites still easier in DCS because they just leave thier radar on all day. Skilled Sam operators would be able to play a cat and mouse game.

Just look how Scott O Grady was shot down over Bosnia. the Serbs used thier radars sparingly to avoid being targeted by SEAD aircraft. but long enough to detect a target and turned it off. 2 F16 pilots onm a routine No fly zone patrol dismissed the Brief spike as a RWR false alarm. It was not an area known for SAM sites, Serbs launched a Missile from an SA6 when they flew directly overhead ( in ideal engagement range) , Turned on Radar and locked target after the fact. not giving The Pilot enough time to react to pop CM or perform any defensive maneuvers. 1 pilot was shot down from 2 missiles fired.
__________________





Build:

Windows 10 64 bit,

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Nctua NH14S ),Crucial Ballistix DDR4 16gb ram (2400 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, Samsing evo 850 pro 512 gb SSD

Last edited by Kev2go; 01-18-2018 at 03:38 AM.
Kev2go is offline  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:47 PM   #34
Kev2go
Senior Member
 
Kev2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef P. Bagodonuts View Post
You underestimate the ability of ISR to find and fix targets, even camouflaged mobile ones.

Scott O'Grady got shot down because he was a shitty wingman and pilot; not because the SA-6 battery had awesome TTPs.
look at how much of a challenge it was to spot scuds in the open deserts of Iraq. And react in time before they dismantled scuttled to setup elsewhere. You are overestimating ISR.

And that's an unfair judgement, and disrepsectuffll to dismiss him. It just as easily could have been the leader who got shot down, given he was making the call of what do in such situation. This was just an example .This wasnt the only aircraft shot down by sams since the end of the cold war. Sorry but the sam operators did know what they were doing. IFthey had simply switched on radar and began locking right away, it would have given the pilots more time to react, and not be in ideal engaagemnt range. In actuality it would have spooked the pilots as they would have high tailed it out of there, given they were in a A2A config and did not have any way to attack save for a gun run which would have required getting close.

It was an ambush. The sam were in an area they weren't expected and the operators knew what they were doing. They didn't just switch on the radar and keep it on and target when they got in range like so does in dcs. If there anything that's lacking it's behaviour of sams in dcs.
__________________





Build:

Windows 10 64 bit,

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Nctua NH14S ),Crucial Ballistix DDR4 16gb ram (2400 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, Samsing evo 850 pro 512 gb SSD

Last edited by Kev2go; 01-19-2018 at 12:36 AM.
Kev2go is offline  
Old 01-19-2018, 03:35 AM   #35
Kev2go
Senior Member
 
Kev2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef P. Bagodonuts View Post
You're citing capabilities from a conflict which occurred 27 years ago; things change. I know how ISR works.

Did you know that O'Grady's callsign was "Zulu"? Do you know why? Because he was dead last in everything he did, just like the letter Z. According to the people who trained and flew with him.
ANd your not citing any capabilities at all apart form Saying " No its not " like a 5 year old.



yes i have informed opinion how it works too.

Again there hasn't been a conventional conflict were modern ISR has actually been put to the test in actual field combat against a conventional modern military with an air defense network. THese examples are fine Dcs scenarios can range from cold war to modern era, and even in Modern era WE dont have the absolute latest and greatest technology. Only on what they can gather enough data on. Again O grady was not the only pilot lost to sams in the post Cold war era. This was just a notable and very well documented example that people are more familar with.

If it was so easy to Detect. Americans wouldn't be fretting over having to deal and identify Russian air defenses in a hypothetical Ukraine intervention or in Syria in areas protected by thier systems. ( not that these will happen, but what if)

it doesn't change argument the usefulness of how displacing defenses and disciplined use of sams can make pilots lives much harder and give them less reaction time, actually being useful for ambush . Again O Grady is not the only pilot to have been on the reviving end of such tactics. Which you have avoided disputing because cleary there is nothing to argue against save for trying to act a contrarian on other areas stooping down to straw man arguments which has served nothing but to distract from the true point at hand.

But sure itl be more convenient for your argument to just dismiss any pilot shot down as ****.
__________________





Build:

Windows 10 64 bit,

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Nctua NH14S ),Crucial Ballistix DDR4 16gb ram (2400 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, Samsing evo 850 pro 512 gb SSD

Last edited by Kev2go; 01-19-2018 at 03:44 AM.
Kev2go is offline  
Old 01-19-2018, 05:41 PM   #36
Kippy
Member
 
Kippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef P. Bagodonuts View Post
...
Please contribute what you can to the discussion. Obviously you are knowledgeable on the matter. If you insist this conversation is moot because of the subject matter, then don't go cruising for trouble arguing with people and making attacks on the pilot whilst providing no evidence for your statements.

Also, if you do have access to classified information like you claim, then somebody must have briefed you on OPSEC and the steps involved. Let's apply some OPSEC measures and not disclose so openly the fact that you have access to Critical Information.
Kippy is offline  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:56 PM   #37
Snoopy
Veteran
 
Snoopy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 5,754
Default

It’s threads like this that make me wish we had a popcorn eating emoji
Snoopy is offline  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:15 PM   #38
MTFDarkEagle
Veteran
 
MTFDarkEagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Netherlands, near EHTW
Posts: 4,876
Default

__________________
MTFDarkEagle is offline  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:49 PM   #39
Kev2go
Senior Member
 
Kev2go's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,872
Default

__________________





Build:

Windows 10 64 bit,

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Nctua NH14S ),Crucial Ballistix DDR4 16gb ram (2400 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, Samsing evo 850 pro 512 gb SSD
Kev2go is offline  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:55 PM   #40
BIGNEWY
Senior
 
BIGNEWY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hereford, UK
Posts: 14,762
Default

OK

we are done here

/closed
__________________
Currently on a break, please contact NineLine for assistance. Thanks
BIGNEWY is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:45 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.