Realistic Curve Settings

I have noticed that in some manuals, the curve settings for pitch, roll, and yaw are not detailed. Is there a database of realistic curve settings for each module. I tend to keep them around 25, but I have no idea if that's accurate or not. Can anyone shed some light on what our settings should be?

25 is also my number of choice for curvature and 3 for deadzone... if only I could set it for all modules at once...

Bad thing about curves is: If you take away input at the start of controller travel, it will make the curve ramp up harder towards the end of the travel.

On some axis, reducing the Y Saturation can be very helpful, especially for helo controls where you don't move a controller to maximum. You can't really do this for an airplane axis as it might increase your turn or roll radius.

A little curve is nice if you can get it to work for you. It depends on where you need the "sweetspot".

This is no "should be" setting.

Best of luck to you,

There's no real way to determine a "correct" curve for specific aircraft since it is really an effect of individual hardware and preference.

So the process is just trial and error until you get it to where you like it.

Do real aircraft have a curve? I understand that in a sim most of our joysticks do not have a long enough column or extension to allow a 0 curve and retain fine control at center . As correctly stated, a curve flattens near the Center, providing greater control, but the trade off is less accuracy at extreme deflection. Given adjusting the curve can totally change the feel of the aircraft, there must be an accurate setting for each aircraft, if you have a joystick with a correct extension

No, real aircraft do not have curves. The realistic setting for each and every aircraft is to leave everything at default. The control options are only there to allow you to get comfortable with whatever hardware you own.

No, real aircraft do not have curves. The realistic setting for each and every aircraft is to leave everything at default. The control options are only there to allow you to get comfortable with whatever hardware you own.

Cool, thanks for clarifying. I guess in the pursuit of realism and immersion it would be best to get a stick extension and switch off curves all together.

I'm not sure about other people, but I find curves to be a helpful, but huge immersion killer. Given how much time and accuracy is put into a flight model, it's a bit like putting road tyres on your new supercar, then going to a track day and wondering why you can't put 600hp down. :doh:

As a note for those who may not know, IRL aircraft do have Deadzone, Saturation and Curves. They are put in when designed, thru the use of cables and linkages, or software for fly-by-wire aircraft. However they are not pilot adjustable, and pilots just have to get use to how the aircraft works. Its the same with vehicals... one car you may have to turn the steering wheel 2-3 turns to get full distance, while a different model might be more or less.

ED gave us the ability to adjust Deadzone, Saturation and Curve to compensate for the differences in hardware and setup everyone has. If you have a joystick that uses Hall sensors like the Warthog, then deadzone is not really necessary unless you have a shaky hand, however if you use one with analog potentiometer, over time the pot will wear causing spikes near center, and you'll need the deadzone. Where you place your equipment (ie..to your side, or between your legs, with or without an extension,) is another consideration whether or not you use Saturation and Curves.

To give a few examples.. My Warthog is floor mounted between my legs with a 20cm extension. This extension changed the throw from the factory of about 2-3 inches to a whopping 7.5 inches in one direction. With my feet on the pedals I don't have clearance for that much throw side to side. So I use the settings to adjust it to my actual throw. I also built a collective for flying helicopters, when my coll. is at full up, it was only showing 75% in game, so I use the settings to give me the other 25%, and to put the sweet spot in the center of my collective travel.

As you can see setting curves is a personal choice, and what works for one may not work for others, its trial and error to get them to what feels right for you.

Hope this helps a little to explain use of curves, etc.

Very well put, DeJohn! Thanks! :thumbup:

Yes, well said DeJohn, thanks for the explanation. I'm building a cockpit around the future VKB Gunfighter with extension, so I might have to take a similar approach to you.

I've grown to like the "User Curve" option over the exponential curvature. Here's a very rough example I posted in another thread:

I typically try to keep the two segments of my "User Curve" linear. The initial curve at the stick-free position provides the fine control needed for wing-work or A2A refueling. It also provides a constant breakout force to overcome the deadband and make a significant control input. Once outside of the deadband the response is linear.

There's really no way to get "realistic" with a PC joystick. Not only because of the length although that can be altered. But also there's the fact that real aircraft controls have force applied to them.

So you'd need a full length FFB stick. Real joysticks aren't spring centered and that center location on a PC stick may not coincide with the real aerodynamic center.

Nor there's a way to any computer game be "realistic".

So and adjust the curves for your taste/feel considering the model, length, position of stick you use. ;)

I've grown to like the "User Curve" option over the exponential curvature.

Interesting info thanks.

I have never given the user curve option a try, mostly because I never really understood it - think I may give this a try now and see how it feels to me.

I don't mean to bring another sim into this discussion, but this is the best explaination of the topic and it's universal to these games.

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/2564-about-wrong-elevator-position-and-pitch-sensitive/?p=22055

Thanks for sharing. Definitely good information for mechanical control systems. Most of that doesn't apply to hydro-mechanical and especially FBW controls found in the teen series fighters. This document has a good explanation of reversible vs. irreversible flight control systems.

I think a good starting point would be, how realistic in comparison to which aircraft?

Nor there's a way to any computer game be "realistic".

But there is "more realistic" and "less realistic" or we wouldn't be playing DCS World in the first place.

If I match the displacement of my stick with the modeled aircraft's real stick and use the default linear curve, I expect the control surface to deflect precisely the amount in the game that it would in real life. If the flight model is reasonably well done, the aerodynamic response of the aircraft to that displacement should be the same as well. Any module that doesn't provide this out of the box (given that the correct information exists and is publicly available), has failed the primary purpose of this sim.

I absolutely agree with being able to program curves to suit one's needs. Between different hardware setups and personal preferences, there's lots of room for customization. But some sims are MORE realistic than others. Correctly modeling the response of the control surfaces to the linear displacement of the controls should be the goal of any flight sim that is striving to be a realistic as possible.

I've grown to like the "User Curve" option over the exponential curvature. Here's a very rough example I posted in another thread:

I typically try to keep the two segments of my "User Curve" linear. The initial curve at the stick-free position provides the fine control needed for wing-work or A2A refueling. It also provides a constant breakout force to overcome the deadband and make a significant control input. Once outside of the deadband the response is linear.

I just discovered the "User Curves", and am wondering if you have any settings for the Dora and Spitfire? I found one for the Kurfurst, which allows me to have pitch settings beyond the standard nose down max. I still haven't found any instructions/guide on how to set them, though.

Kurfurst = 0,5,12,21,32,40,45,59,74,88,100

Thanks

I guess the more realistic argument is fair enough and DCS is pretty good. Problem ( personal opinion only ) is the lack if feedback available from the Sim. The fact that the in trim position is in the middle where most sticks have a fairly hard center causes a problem for me I changed to a gunfighter to fix this. Most FC systems have a feedback system to make you aware of how much force you are putting one the Aircraft even before you pull. I guess a good ffb stick may simulate this but I havent tried one. I guess what I am trying to say is that without feedback in your control system we are never going to be realistic and I would use whatever curve you like that lets you get over the limitations of your setup. Finally in an effort to get more feedback which aids massively in trying to achieve some realism I use a jetseat it gives pretty good feedback with buffet levels, you can feel when you approach the stall etc.

My tuppence worth

What I've gathered from the multiple talks where real pilots tried DCS and gave some feed back is that in general a real aircraft's stick would be way more loose. Even watching videos from real cockpits and seeing stick going back and forth without AC changing a direction made me thinking the more aggressive curve (or less saturation) is a good thing.

Rusky you must have been watching an old Airliner. In a fighter it responds to tiny movements of the stick. The only way I have found to get close is to use an extension so that the movement almost mimics the real thing but it also needs a soft center and a tiny dead zone.

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Post deleted - apparently not relevant.

Indeed they may have, but for us sim pilots this doesn't matter.

Hopefully if the dev did a good job modeling the aircraft and the virtual flight stick deflection->control surface deflection relation is modeled in detail with all eventual non-linearities.

However changing the curve setting in the game option only changes the joystick->virtual flight stick relationship.

And thus the fact that an aircraft may or may not have a curve (non-linearity) or whatever built in, doesn't change anything to this conversation

I think you are incorrect DeJohn. You need to alter the saturation to reduce the overall throw of a device, and not the curve, which alters the amount an input changes a control surface over part of the curve and increases it over another part. Over all, this just makes controls less predictable and I think, complicates things rather than being an aid to control.

The collective only reaching 75% at full deflection is a calibration issue. Adding a curve will definitely not help there either. Again, you can mask the issue by adding saturation.

The flight model of the module should take into account the "feel" of controls, and so whenever possible you need to run without any curves. They really don't help. Linear reactions are always far more predictable.

Dead zones however, as you said, will cover up for poor quality controls, and in some cases, without them you will get a constant trembling of the airframes control surfaces - in one case, with the VEAO Hawk, that was enough to cause hydraulic pressures to fall catastrophically leading people to think there was a bug.

My advice would be to try to work through your sensitivity issues, and let muscle memory develop. If you are serious about flying, a joystick extension is the real solution.

What I've gathered from the multiple talks where real pilots tried DCS and gave some feed back is that in general a real aircraft's stick would be way more loose. Even watching videos from real cockpits and seeing stick going back and forth without AC changing a direction made me thinking the more aggressive curve (or less saturation) is a good thing.

Every A/C is different. But normally there is less resistance/force around the center so the pilot easier can do small adjustments.

FBW is a different story. There can be all kinds of control laws depending of mode and conditions.

The F-15 and F-16 are pretty well described in doc's floating around.