[LATER IN EARLY ACCESS] A-G radar mode – will there ever be one?

I’m new to DCS.

Had it for less than 2 months after playing the ‘other’ sim for a long time.

I bought the F-16 wanting to improve graphics and try the VR and I was sure I will get a similar plane with similar functioning systems.

I do enjoy it!!!

However, my main disappointment is not the lack of functioning systems - it is the realization that either it will take 1-2 years to implement them or that they will never be implemented.

Is it true that there are no plans to implement A-G radar modes?

Does it really take so long to implement the systems and if yes than why was it ever released in such state? ($$$)

Is it true that there are no plans to implement A-G radar modes?

??? :huh:

You must be really new here, otherwise you would have seen ED talking about their work on the AG radar in their weekly updates...

So just to make it very clear: AG radar is comming for the Viper and for the Hornet. It is in active development by ED.

Yes, as i said i'm new...

I spoke with several members, and they were all very very skeptical regarding the A-G radar and all agreed it will take 1-2 years for the viper to be better equipped.

I want to hear other opinions

Yes, as i said i'm new...

I spoke with several members, and they were all very very skeptical regarding the A-G radar and all agreed it will take 1-2 years for the viper to be better equipped.

 

I want to hear other opinions

It's not about opinions. It's a fact that the AG radar is in active development and will come for the Viper and for the Hornet.

The only thing that is unclear yet, is when exactly the AG radar will arrive. You can do all kind of speculation on the date. Personally I'm pretty confident that we will get it next year. If I would have to bet I would even say 1st half of next year.

So it's a good think I asked this here.

And it's very encouraging to now it will be available.

looking fwd to it...

Btw, here's a very early WIP pic of EDs work on the AG radar, but its rather old and probably does not represent the current status:

DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

Work is mostly focused on the air-to-ground radar that is making good progress; the team is now starting to create the various sub-modes such as the expanded modes. We have included a couple of images that show samples of the new air-to-ground radar technology that is based on radar reflectivity logic.

 

How long ago was that post now?

How long ago was that post now?

April 2015 :music_whistling:

And I'll keep posting it untill ED will give us some new pics of their AG radar work :D

I remember someone once said: the above pictures are just for us to understand the air to ground radar image. In fact, relevant work has never been officially carried out. They also made it clear that there will be no news about air to ground radar in 2019. If you want to experience the air to ground radar, you can buy ajs37 and look forward to the upcoming jf17. F18 and F16 still need a long time

So my question was relevant after all.

The 'opinions' i heard were quire tight and there is no plan for an A-G mode after all.

This is REALLY disappointing it true.

So my question was relevant after all.

The 'opinions' i heard were quire tight and there is no plan for an A-G mode after all.

 

This is REALLY disappointing it true.

???

I told you there is not just a plan for the AG radar, but they are even working on the AG radar right now! What's not to understand about this? See BIGNEWYs comment, if you don't believe me.

GREAT!!!

looking fwd to it (again...)

I remember someone once said: the above pictures are just for us to understand the air to ground radar image. In fact, relevant work has never been officially carried out. They also made it clear that there will be no news about air to ground radar in 2019. If you want to experience the air to ground radar, you can buy ajs37 and look forward to the upcoming jf17. F18 and F16 still need a long time

"Someone once said"? Who and where? And where do you take the info from, that there has been no work on the AG radar been carrier out? Why does ED say they are working on it in their official news updates then?

And btw, the AJS37 and JF-17 AG radars have nothing to do with EDs AG radar tech.

Actually, ED has fnished work on the AG core tech and is now implementing it to the specific platforms (Hornet/Viper):

There is a difference between the core AG radar rendering technology and the implementation of that tech to a specific pod. The latter just started.

 

Thanks

The "other simulator" doesn't have a real beam ground radar. It uses very simple method.

1) every ground unit and building has an object ID.

2) the ground has a simple ground texture that gets overlaid all trees, buildings, roads etc.

The A-G radar in that simulator does it so that there ground texture is used as black and white texture at radar scope background with own filter. And then it is just revealed on area the radar scans and if there is a once ID, it gets marked as white block on radar scope at the moment when the virtual radar beam crosses it.

It is very simple simulation as it doesn't count much variants.

But ED implantation is actually simulation, the beam needs to go over the terrain, emit the energy, reflect back it, and then process it. It is not cheating by simplicity as all vehicles angles matters, weather, obstacles etc etc.

So if ED has been working of it for years, doesn't meant they don't put effort to it or don't care. Just the opposite.

Neither of this is REAL.

We are not actually flying here, are we?

ED don't create the radar and there are no beams here, only zeroes and ones which, at the end of the process, are translated to color pixels on our displays.

From the (not so little) experience I have with these 0/1 I can tell that 5 years is a lot of time to be working on this. Too long i should say

The 'other' simulator produces a very playable A-G radar and this is the important thing - it is playable!

Not to mention that it is free.

I'd expect ED to produce something playable and not use excused about to complexity of A-G radar since they are not creating any radars - they are creating games!

The other sim started in 1998. They should have something that works. What does that have to do with what ED is doing which will be much better?

The other sim started in 1998. They should have something that works. What does that have to do with what ED is doing which will be much better?

DCS started in October 2008 (Wikipedia - caution). You’re point being?

Edit: and to head the inevitable response off at the pass - April 2015 is When they shared a wip ED A2G Radar, (earlier one the thread) so that‘S still 4.5 years which is a not insignificant period of time.

My point is that ‘time elapsed’ is not relevant to the question as surely sufficient time has elapsed for ED to have deployed their own A2G radar simulation since then. Quite why they have been unable to I cannot speculate.

Secondly - how do you KNOW EDs implementation will be better than ‘the other sim’ when we haven’t got a clue to what level of fidelity and completeness it will be? How about we wait to have both fully delivered and then compare at that point.

The other sim started in 1998. They should have something that works. What does that have to do with what ED is doing which will be much better?

You are forgetting the the other sim had that A-G radar working from day One.

And they only had to improve it

Secondly - how do you KNOW EDs implementation will be better than ‘the other sim’ when we haven’t got a clue to what level of fidelity and completeness it will be? How about we wait to have both fully delivered and then compare at that point.

Wait for how much longer...:music_whistling:

Neither of this is REAL.

We are not actually flying here, are we?

 

ED don't create the radar and there are no beams here, only zeroes and ones which, at the end of the process, are translated to color pixels on our displays.

Actually they are creating the radar. Only difference is that they are not doing it physically nor transmitting real energy. They are simulating it.

There is on the market a extremely high end radar simulation software, license cost about 250 000€ per machine to use it. And how does it do it? It simulates the sound and it uses that to perform extremely complex radar emission simulations, almost perfect match to the real radar. It is used to design and build actual radars, testing it before building etc, and then used for the software designs for actual radars.

Lots of things can be done with software simulators, question is just that how complex you want to go with it.

From the (not so little) experience I have with these 0/1 I can tell that 5 years is a lot of time to be working on this. Too long i should say

Because you want a game, you want to be a rock star and not care at all about simulation and accuracy, the time it takes to put effort for it so you don't need to cheat with it.

The 'other' simulator produces a very playable A-G radar and this is the important thing - it is playable!

Not to mention that it is free.

You are wrong in many ways in that. It is extremely simple, a air-ground radar like from any 90's game that is just cheating. And no, it is not free. You need to own the original game that you need to buy if you don't already own it.

It is as enjoyable gameplay as any game from 90's where you once learn that AI is cheating or you are cheating and the illusion is over.

That is the difference between GAME and SIMULATOR. While both can be run on exactly same hardware, there is the level difference that is set, other is based to believes (like movies etc where people shoot at wooden door or wooden table and all the bullets magically stops in everything that is between gun and the target) and other is based to as accurate as possible so it can be applied to real world as is (be it a CAD modeling or simulating weather or similar things).

But as you want just the game, go to play those other games. Enjoy from their challenges etc when you have the cheating functionality and simplified systems.

I'd expect ED to produce something playable and not use excused about to complexity of A-G radar since they are not creating any radars - they are creating games!

They are actually creating radars. The Lock-On was based to the game. That is what DCSWorld is still about most parts. You have a Unit, that unit has a detection range (that is the largest circle in the mission editor) and then they have other circles for each weapon etc. And they all work based to that circle that once a "enemy unit" is inside that circle, the unit knows it is there. It is cheating. In years the LOS was added, first it was just for the buildings (but not on all units) and terrain, but not for trees etc. Now they have started to add trees, smokes, clouds etc to the LOS calculations.

In future they should have a LOS cones by the view ports, periscopes etc. And then have a scanning view cone for each individual personnel inside the vehicle, meaning that driver can't see up to sky, it can't see to rear unless having mirror or camera, the gunner doesn't have a wide view around, loader can't look out much as he is loading, the commander task is to try to find the targets by various means and it is like using a straw to spot something. Meaning, every single armored vehicle down there is not capable to spot aircrafts at all as easily as it is now. That already came for the AI pilots that they can't see you from six a clock low position or where they don't have in cockpit LOS, so you can sneak around them, and they can lose you in dog fight as their vision cone is elsewhere for a moment.

The F/A-18C module was first one to get the radar beaming technology, where the radar is simulated. The radar actually scans the sky in correct pattern and speed, with the correct FOV cone. It is emitting calculated energy values and it will receive the echo from the aircraft only if the aircraft positioning is correct (like head-on or 45 degree etc) is not in the notch etc. Larger the aircraft, larger the return possibilities etc. The angles are counted, speeds and many many other variables.

Compared to FC3 etc, they are using the simple, your preferred "game" mode, where aircraft has a circle around it and angle at front. If the target is inside that circle and between the radar scan angles, it will get detected if it is at the correct altitude to the radar. But there is no similar thing going like the F/A-18C has with a sweeping emission simulation and calculations could the radar detect the target or not.

What in future should come is that you start to see echoes here and there, sometimes see them and sometimes not, until you start to get close enough to receive stronger echo so you can get the lock grade return. But to you it might be just 1's and 0's and "not real" as you only define real as what you see and feel, instead what can be simulated as well.

DCS started in October 2008 (Wikipedia - caution). You’re point being?

 

Edit: and to head the inevitable response off at the pass - April 2015 is When they shared a wip ED A2G Radar, (earlier one the thread) so that‘S still 4.5 years which is a not insignificant period of time.

 

My point is that ‘time elapsed’ is not relevant to the question as surely sufficient time has elapsed for ED to have deployed their own A2G radar simulation since then. Quite why they have been unable to I cannot speculate.

Cripes! I'm comparing when the other sim started which had the radar and when ED started the F-16. Do I really have to explain that?