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Why not more map development?


Boris

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DCS World has a great range of aircraft by now that provide hours and hours of action, enough to keep us busy for ages. Sure there are some highly anticipated aircraft still to come, but I have yet to touch some of the modules I have bought.

 

What really is lacking, is more environments and content, such as campaigns and missions, for these aircraft. It's now arguably as or more important than the aircraft themselves.

 

That begs the question, why do so many 3rd party developers prominently focus their attention on aircraft?

Map development could be far more lucrative, as buyers would include the majority of the DCS user base, the choice being based less on preference, but out of a desire for more variety.

 

Is it because map making is still closely guarded by ED? Or could there already be a number of unannounced 3rd parties be working maps?

If so, why are we hearing nothing about it? Given the long development times, it would be a shame if many more maps aren't already being worked on (in addition to the ones we know about). When will DCS World live up to its name? :)

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There are already some 3rd party devs working on maps:

 

VEAO

- Duxford (test development map)

- North Africa – Tubruq

- Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys

 

Leatherneck Studios

- Viggen Map

- Iwo Jima (Corsair Map)

- Tomcat Map

 

I think it's no coincidence that with VEAO and LNS the two most professional 3rd party developers (apart from Belsimtek, which is more like a 2nd party developer wink.gif) have taken on the task to create maps. Map creation in DCS is still pretty new and surely requires some effort to do. An effort which might be too big for the smaller 3rd party devs atm. If you read what the VEAO and LNS guys say in the forums (and other places) about their map creation efforts then you get an impression that this is something completly new and difficult to get into.


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Despite 3rd parties saying they would, LNS as recently as the Viggen stream couldnt confirm any work on them and there has been no tools released from ED, AND we know that the mapping system is changing radically for the infamous 2.5. (Enough to put 2.5 behind by months due to redoing the Caucasus, various Wags quotes for this)

 

If someone is working on a map they are doing it on as yet undisclosed tool/method on as yet unreleased format of DCS World.

 

I don't think any work is being done outside of ED until they complete 2.5.

 

When it becomes available, there will be a massive interest 100% full steam ahead on doing so, and I'll be investing a shed load of time myself personally.

 

There are already some 3rd party devs working on maps:

 

VEAO

- Duxford (test development map)

- North Africa – Tubruq

- Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys

 

Leatherneck Studios

- Viggen Map

- Iwo Jima (Corsair Map)

- Tomcat Map

 

I think it's no coincidence that with VEAO and LNS the two most professional 3rd party developers (apart from Belsimtek, which is more like a 2nd party developer wink.gif) have taken on the task to create maps. Map creation in DCS is still pretty new and surely requires some effort to do. An effort which might be too big for the smaller 3rd party devs atm.

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Simply put, it takes time.

 

Caucasus is being redone

NTTR is in Alpha

Normandy is in testing

Straits of Hormuz is in development

 

and that is just what ED are dealing with, I am sure will see more in the future, but as I have said it take's time.

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Simply put, it takes time.

 

Caucasus is being redone

NTTR is in Alpha

Normandy is in testing

Straits of Hormuz is in development

 

and that is just what ED are dealing with, I am sure will see more in the future, but as I have said it take's time.

 

Well yeah, you're right, at least we're already getting some new maps relatively soon.

 

Development in DCS does indeed take quite a while, which is why it would be nice to know that more is already in the pipe. I don't know that 3rd party developers have acted on their plans yet. If developers do indeed need to wait for the release of 2.5, and considering the very long development cycles, it seems like it could be a number of years before we see the next swathe of maps.

 

I wish we could make community maps. Spread the work, let us help.

 

Me too. But I also appreciate that ED has very high standards of development. This is understandable, as maps are not static and need to interact with the existing aircraft in terms of ATC and navigation.

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Despite 3rd parties saying they would, LNS as recently as the Viggen stream couldnt confirm any work on them and there has been no tools released from ED, AND we know that the mapping system is changing radically for the infamous 2.5. (Enough to put 2.5 behind by months due to redoing the Caucasus, various Wags quotes for this)

 

Indeed, and that's exactly what I meant when I said this:

If you read what the VEAO and LNS guys say in the forums (and other places) about their map creation efforts then you get an impression that this is something completly new and difficult to get into.
But IIRC LNS has an entire team dedicated to map development in Poland.
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IIRC LNS has an entire team for map development in Poland.

 

This sounds encouraging. I would welcome the idea of entire 3rd party teams specializing on maps only.

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It's still a moving target for third parties to hit. It's enough that their existing modules require maintenance after release throughout the changes to DCSW.

 

And whilst i'm sure it does take time to produce these, once any tool gets out there's a small army waiting to put their combined efforts into it at a production level that's not aiming up to the current fantastic standards. Look at Luckybob and NTTR in its first incarnation, not nearly as long to get something in that could be useful and we never got to try that again.

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I would be quite surprised if ED do release a tool to the general public. I highly doubt it.

 

I suspect any development will most likely be in cooperation with licensed 3rd party dev teams.

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I would be quite surprised if ED do release a tool to the general public. I highly doubt it.

 

I suspect any development will most likely be in cooperation with licensed 3rd party dev teams.

 

That seems likely since that is what they have said, repeatedly. :smartass:

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The problem with the map development seems to be the slow process because reality conserns.

Like why not just let buildings and roads be imagination based?

 

There are lots of free (public domain) height maps from all over the world for commercial use,and lots of can be done when the mapping tools allow autogeneration of urban areas, forests, and even connect roads etc.

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I would be quite surprised if ED do release a tool to the general public. I highly doubt it.

 

I remember it has been said they won't. The software required to create terrain is tied with the software used to create modules, and that is pretty much regarded as an industrial secret to them.

 

With that being said, I also remember they said they would consider a 3rd party application purely for the creation of maps, if that party could prove they have the required skills and talents with a portfolio.

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I think ED is taking Maps very seriously and it shows. As BIGNEWY said, there are 3 maps in development in addition to the alpha release of NTTR (the new Caucasus map has all new assets, vegetation, textures, mesh resolution increased by 400% - almost totally new vs current).

 

But since these DLC maps are a new feature, they need to work out the issues and move in a stepwise fashion. It would be unproductive to create assets for 5 different maps only to realize there is an issue after integration and need to redo everything. Actually, the new lighting system (which uses PBR) has already required Normandy to undergo a rework of all assets and textures.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3001310&postcount=64

 

Also, Leatherneck has confirmed that they are still working on maps with a team devoted more less just to it (and AI, etc).

It remains to be seen (and announced) what maps they are working on - though something for the WWII Pacific theater remains highly likely (both Iwo Jima and Okinawa have been mentioned, but not confirmed). There is supposed to be a map for the F-14, but the location and timeframe are still not known.

 

I also agree that new maps are every bit as important as new aircraft modules since I may enjoy operating my favorite aircraft in a variety of theaters and campaigns instead of learning a new aircraft. But ED has been creating aircraft modules since 2008, but they just started with maps. Not to mention the fact that these maps seem to be colossal projects that take quite a while.

 

But just the addition of Normandy, NTTR, and the new Caucasus will make DCS feel really different and bring the WWII modules home. All a matter of time....:)

 

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What really is lacking, is more environments and content, such as campaigns and missions, for these aircraft. It's now arguably as or more important than the aircraft themselves.

 

That begs the question, why do so many 3rd party developers prominently focus their attention on aircraft?

 

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It's all about the money. The ROI on plane modules must be better than on maps and campaigns, else there would be more maps and campaigns in the works.

 

I highly doubt that ROI is an issue here. Many aircraft modules are quite niche and take many years to produce. Based on a few of the other informed posts, I'd say it actually is a case of it just being too early (ie. the modular map system not being ready).

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Heres a little motivational video in hopes a vietnam map is on the horizon. We NEED this!!!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ryo02Qw1-c&t=99s

 

motivational video? so nice looking at people being burned ah?? first they killed thousands of civilians in that "motivationl footage" , secondly the music is pure garbage.

We need an european scenario like the balcans or iraq area .

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But I also appreciate that ED has very high standards of development. This is understandable, as maps are not static and need to interact with the existing aircraft in terms of ATC and navigation.

 

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More maps are going to come from ED after SoH, they just arent ready to discuss them until they get a little closer.

 

The map tools are quite complex and have taken a lot of work to develop them. This includes the standalone editor, as well as 3D Studio Max plugins. They are still being developed as they hammer down the standard for these maps, the map tech has even evolved as we have been getting NTTR and are close to Normandy and the New Caucasus map.

 

Anyone with the skill and ability to do this type of work can apply to ED to get access to these tools, but giving them away freely isnt part of the plan right now.

 

I believe other 3rd parties are actively working with the ED map team, helping with testing and developing the tools as well as developing their own maps. Of course until these projects are closer to release, we wont get much info.

 

Its not what you want to hear of course, but its where we are at. I feel like once we hit the merge and more maps get put out, the maps will start moving much faster through development.

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