Is the A-10C textures/cockpit/raindrops update still planned? - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


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Old 05-28-2019, 07:45 PM   #31
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I'm going to stop whining about DCS. It's not really my style anyway.

I'm sure DCS does the best job they can with what they have to work with.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:15 AM   #32
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Then does MS Office from 2011 have the same features as modern Office?
Obviously no. But today MS has moved to subscription business with office 365: with a family subscription you pay a yearly fee, smaller than an older single "home and student" or "business" license, and your office suite is always updated, you have outlook client, access and publisher, you can install on multiple devices, you have cloud, you have skype minutes to call regular numbers, and you can share your license with other 5 MS accounts, each of them having all the same features. Just for 99 /year (but in the last two years I renewed during black friday, for just 50 / year: if you divide with the other 5 people you share, it's just less than 10 / year).

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Originally Posted by Hippo View Post
Their current model where they have to keep releasing new aircraft to keep the show on the road is, I suspect, unsustainable.
This is what I fear: how would you feel if one day they will say no more updates, we can't afford, if you want to fly the old ka-50 revert from 2.7 to 2.5?

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Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
A bad example is MS Office: a word processor is a word processor, they can add new (unnecessary) features and fix bugs that shouldn't be there in the first place, there is no server, no real service to justify, hard to justify a subscription for that. Actually, I haven't checked whether this 365 idea was still in place or abandonned, I'm using something else now anyway.
As I just wrote, yes: 365 is still in place and it's the best idea ever IMHO. Few years ago I thought like you and tried libre office, a quite good suite to be open source, but way less powerful and easy to use than MS one. I quickly came back to MS and I never regret.

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Old 05-29-2019, 01:15 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by nessuno0505 View Post
Obviously no. But today MS has moved to subscription business with office 365: with a family subscription you pay a yearly fee, smaller than an older single "home and student" or "business" license, and your office suite is always updated, you have outlook client, access and publisher, you can install on multiple devices, you have cloud, you have skype minutes to call regular numbers, and you can share your license with other 5 MS accounts, each of them having all the same features. Just for 99 /year (but in the last two years I renewed during black friday, for just 50 / year: if you divide with the other 5 people you share, it's just less than 10 / year).



This is what I fear: how would you feel if one day they will say no more updates, we can't afford, if you want to fly the old ka-50 revert from 2.7 to 2.5?



As I just wrote, yes: 365 is still in place and it's the best idea ever IMHO. Few years ago I thought like you and tried libre office, a quite good suite to be open source, but way less powerful and easy to use than MS one. I quickly came back to MS and I never regret.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind the the SaaS model, honestly. I don't mind paying for good software. Hell, I just changed by lifelong perpetual license for Ultraedit to SaaS model.

ED could have tiers. Cheaper ones where you can fly one plane at a time (some minimum per checkout) or a higher cost if you want to fly any and all aircraft.

They can do something like "if you want to stay perpetual, you'll get X more major releases and that's that"

I mean the A10 shader/cockpit upgrade is an upgrade right? Why should people expect it as a freebie just because *newer* planes like FA18 ships with it. After all, the tech wasn't available when A10C shipped. There was never a promise that planes will be updated in perpetuity.

I'd rather pay to have ED stay around than not.
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:44 AM   #34
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Subscription isn't a bad idea. But your logic doesn't make any sense to me. If you buy a 10 year old car, do you expect it to have the same features as a 2019 model car?

And if your answer is "it's software so it's different" Then does MS Office from 2011 have the same features as modern Office?

And if your answer is "but they are adding new feature" We're right back to paying for the textures. Someone above said "no way, it's should be free" But I can just as easily argue that adding new shaders *is* a new feature.

But I do like yearly all you can eat SaaS license model. You could have different tier pricing. Interesting idea.
I think its a great idea. The world is moving to a subscription economy and while its tough to swallow it is a good way to ensure companies follow your individual interests; “put your money where mouth is”.

Automobile analogy is voided because if I purchase a 2002 Honda civic, I don’t need to download an update to get to worm (play online), and worse if I do, my civic doesn’t suddenly invert it switches, reverse its headlights or crash into the nearest telephone pole.
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:01 AM   #35
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As I said, a part of the world is moving to subscription, but when it applies to the business model. DCS would have to offer something entirely different for that.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:40 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by hansangb View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't mind the the SaaS model, honestly. I don't mind paying for good software. Hell, I just changed by lifelong perpetual license for Ultraedit to SaaS model.
Tell you what, I'll extend an olive branch.

The moment DCS becomes good software, I will be 100% a-ok with a SaaS model. Until that time, they should not make people pay twice for the same product, like they did with BS2. It was the exact same thing as BS. Maybe you weren't around then to fully experience the fury from the community then. It was deplorable and utterly anti consumer move for them when they made people pay twice for the Ka-50, with no added value. It was a paid upgrade so you can play in multiplayer in 1.2

ED have stated several times, that the modeling rework on modules will be at no additional charge, and rightfully so. The problem several of you have, is you think if you tell ED you will pay for it, they will do it quicker. That's not how this works. It will not speed up the process.

If they want to charge for an update on the A-10C, it better mean we get an A-10C, with it's engines fixed, FM fixed, updated avionics version and HMD. That is worth a paid upgrade.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:09 PM   #37
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Until that time, they should not make people pay twice for the same product, like they did with BS2. It was the exact same thing as BS.
At the risk of sounding like a ED fanboy (I'm really not), I own:

a Russian version of BS1 (I unfortunately don't speak Russian, I remember buying it was a fun experience at the time)
an English version of BS1
the BS1 -> BS2 upgrade
full BS2 version (cos it was all too much hassle)

I don't begrudge them a penny, as I have had more (and endless hours of ) enjoyment from BS than any other module. It's not fair to say BS was the exact same thing, at worst it could be described as a cosmetic update.

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The problem several of you have, is you think if you tell ED you will pay for it, they will do it quicker.
I do not think that. I just think that if developers carry out work, then ED have to find the money for them to be paid.

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If they want to charge for an update on the A-10C, it better mean we get an A-10C, with it's engines fixed, FM fixed, updated avionics version and HMD. That is worth a paid upgrade.
Whoa there, easy tiger. Remind me not to spill your pint.

Surely it depends on what they provide. If it is an update so that the graphics work with the new engine, then I wouldn't object to paying a small upgrade fee. If it's a full rework of the aircraft and systems, then a higher price would be justified.

All, of course, imho.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:58 PM   #38
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It's not fair to say BS was the exact same thing, at worst it could be described as a cosmetic update.
BS2 was the exact same thing, as BS. Not a single drop of additional content. Nothing. It was inexcusable.

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Surely it depends on what they provide. If it is an update so that the graphics work with the new engine, then I wouldn't object to paying a small upgrade fee. If it's a full rework of the aircraft and systems, then a higher price would be justified.
I would object. Vehemently so. The developers are being paid for every drop of work they do. Why do folks think people aren't being paid?

As I stated in an earlier post the vast majority of capex on a module is in the actual development of the module. Once the development is done, you have limitless inventory of said product, that you could conceivable sell until the heat death of the universe. They don't have to spend another sent acquiring units for manufacture of the product to sell, only on "warehousing." After that, especially in the case of something that has been for sale as long as the A-10C, it's nothing, but nett. No additional capex is required to supply the module. People still buy it in droves, to this day, and will continue buying it.

An update to the bring the module up to date with the current engine, does not justify it being a paid update, and ED knows this, which is why they aren't charging for it, as they haven't charged for the updates to the WW2 planes' updates either. Costs are recouped from every module sale. Old and new.

Every now and then one of these threads will popup in these forums, where there a couple people that seem to think ED is in financial trouble and their business model isn't sustainable. If that were the case, wouldn't they have adapted their business model by now? If it isn't sustainable, it probably would have shown in past 20 years.

If they provide sufficient value, people will pay. They don't have to twist our arms, nor do they need to be anti consumer. I have bought several modules for myself and even gifted some. Anybody that's a fan of flight simming in general, doesn't have a problem with paying, and nobody just wants stuff for free. However, what everybody wants, is value for what they pay for.

Charging to have their stuff fixed, is where I draw the line. If you truly feel ED needs more sales, then buy more modules. If you have all of them, start gifting people modules.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:30 PM   #39
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You can keep on saying BS2 was the exact same thing if you like, but it just ain't so:

http://www.simhq.com/_air14/air_504a.html

The rest of your post is unsubstantiated assertions, contradictions, inventions and a soupcon of circular reasoning. I wish you all the best and hope you continue to get everything you want from DCS, but will just agree to disagree at this point.
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:55 PM   #40
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I would gladly pay for an upgrade for the glorious A-10!
It's been a great ride, but it begins to feel the years...
The droplets don't work, but more importantly, the lightning
is messed up, formation lights / nose illumination are not seen from the outside,
but they light up the cockpit like Christmas, landing lights far too weak.....
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