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Next map after Malvinas


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with angola, id finally have a use for cuban skins! since a cuban map is unlikely, at least.

 

honestly, id prefer korea or vietnam- we have iconic aircraft from the era(and more on the way, and even more on our never-ending collective wishlist), but no real appropriate setting to fly them in

 

its kinda pointless flying an f-86 in modern caucasus region, mig-15 around dubai

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with angola, id finally have a use for cuban skins! since a cuban map is unlikely, at least.

 

honestly, id prefer korea or vietnam- we have iconic aircraft from the era(and more on the way, and even more on our never-ending collective wishlist), but no real appropriate setting to fly them in

 

its kinda pointless flying an f-86 in modern caucasus region, mig-15 around dubai

 

Ill disagree about the caucus and the migs and sabers. Could have been ww3 inthe 50s-60s there.

 

PG, not sure if they were operated, but iran has lots f5s and f4s. Gulf states had mirage f1s. (Pending modules mind you but in the pipe at least).

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im not saying such things couldnt be done, but youll find a wider audience (and ROI) for recreating areas/eras more suited for the aircraft available. doing a good map of a historical conflict area is essentially a license to print money

 

sure, straits of hormuz is great for "what if" scenarios, but a northern persian gulf map- at least the intersection of sauidi arabia, kuwait, iraq&iran would be far more useful in both historic& make-believe scenarios, as well as provide some use for combined arms.

 

flying classic aircraft over modern cities is about as immersive as modern jets on the Normandy map. sure, it can be done, but its not as interesting

 

or you can go all in on the make believe, declare batumi to be the capital of the people's republic of carjackistan , fly spitfires out of there to wreak havoc on the surrounding area- but it wouldnt be so easy getting others as interested as, say, flying hueys to drop off troops throughout vietnam, or recreating the highway of death in an a-10 in kuwait, iran/iraq tanker war...

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I agree wholebeartedly. But when ED purposefully goes out of their way to make non-political maps? Thats what you get. I mean the whole C in dcs is "combat" not "kum ba ya" but until some better maps get made it is what it is. Personally i was surprised that Syria and Afghanistan are "happening", even if the afg map is the permissive enviroment bombing simulator map.

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(...) or some bit of the balkans. Though carriers in the adriatic is about as likely as the black sea.

 

Well, actually... I mean, at least in the past... during the Kosovo war.

 

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Well, actually... I mean, at least in the past... during the Kosovo war.

 

 

Yeah I guess its a bit more realistic. They parked em off the Kuwaiti coast too during the various Desert Storms, but its a risky thing putting a carrier into restricted water like that. I guess in both cases they figured they were safe enough from ASM's.

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Yeah I guess its a bit more realistic. They parked em off the Kuwaiti coast too during the various Desert Storms, but its a risky thing putting a carrier into restricted water like that. I guess in both cases they figured they were safe enough from ASM's.
They did not disclose the actual position.

The interesting part with a "Balkans" or "Adriatic" map is the aircraft involved are pretty much available already, from the A-10 to the F-14B... ok, you need to abstain from the use of HMDs and the A-10C is a tad bit too modern, but that is true for Desert Storm, as well.

Serbs flew MiG-21bis, MiG-29 and some older jets, though most action was hide and seek with the armor and artillery pieces. If we get some more options with neutral faction and civilian models, you could even implement the difficulty of ROE restrictions effectively.

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They did not disclose the actual position.

The interesting part with a "Balkans" or "Adriatic" map is the aircraft involved are pretty much available already, from the A-10 to the F-14B... ok, you need to abstain from the use of HMDs and the A-10C is a tad bit too modern, but that is true for Desert Storm, as well.

Serbs flew MiG-21bis, MiG-29 and some older jets, though most action was hide and seek with the armor and artillery pieces. If we get some more options with neutral faction and civilian models, you could even implement the difficulty of ROE restrictions effectively.

 

Yeah I agree that balkan/adriatic map would be cool. Allied force and all that, plus hypotheticals too or croats vs serbs or whatnot. I just think size wise it might too big, especially if you include bits of Italy.

 

As for ROE, well, DCS airliner shootdowns will be a common thing all too sadly.

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  • 5 weeks later...

South West Africa

 

Only ngreenaway has it right... Angola is the one! Or the Southern border between Namibia anyways. It has every type of terrain you could want. Desert, Jungle, Savana, mountains, flatlands and the South Atlantic to the west. It also has very few built-up areas which I'm sure would help speed things along.

 

In regards to aircraft, the Mi-8, L-39, MB-339, Su-25, MiG-15, 19 and 21, are all ideal fits. And we have the Mirage III, F-1, MiG-23, Mi-24 and Bo-105 all in the pipeline. Plus the team building the Kfir promised me a Cheetah if I can get hold of the manuals...

 

Oh, and not to mention, we already have all the Soviet ground assents and if all goes according to plan, the SADF ones too. Once I manage to get the 3D Studio files for the Amscor mod anyways...

 

And if I still haven't convinced you, watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blIhNR41SMc

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Edited by Ozone1
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Angola might be cool, but its probably too big for DCS.

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Just waiting someone makes a Fulda Cap as 300x500km area at first.

And then the northern Part of Nordic countries.

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Just waiting someone makes a Fulda Cap as 300x500km area at first.

And then the northern Part of Nordic countries.

 

And DCS would DIE... I mean an actual cold war era FEBA? You are talking thousands of units. DCS chokes on a few hundred currently.

 

I actually think the nordic/baltic could be much more interesting more naval focus, and naval invasions would be "smaller" than the mess in Germany.

 

I think either some portion of Taiwan/China, could be pretty interesting, assuming we ever get some actual Chinese/Taiwanese planes. Or Korea is pretty much good for the last 70 years as a viable theatre, but again, probably too big/too many units.

 

That being said I think RAZ made a really good choice with the Falklands/malvinas. Its mostly water allowing large map with carriers, the ground war was fairly small, allowing that to be done in good detail and allowing good helo use.

 

I honestly can't really thing of another conflict like that. Maybe iceland for cold war era for the same reasons.


Edited by Harlikwin

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And DCS would DIE... I mean an actual cold war era FEBA? You are talking thousands of units. DCS chokes on a few hundred currently.

 

I am waiting a Vulcan, Multi-core support and new dynamic campaign features for that. ;)

 

 

 

As DCS cant be for long limited to sub 300 units maps.

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"And DCS would DIE... I mean an actual cold war era FEBA? You are talking thousands of units. DCS chokes on a few hundred currently"

 

Bro, what are you talking about? The Angolan conflict was a low-intensity war. They were never more than 5000 SADF Troops on the whole border and only saw very limited amounts of aircraft in the sky at any one time. It's perfectly suited to DCS, unlike something like the Caucuses or Hormuz which would, in reality, see massive amounts of aircraft in the sky, should an actual conflict between major powers occur there. Not to mention the millions of ground and naval units that would be swarming the area, all spewing out radar emissions in every direction.

 

And although I agree, the Baltic would be a nice map, it has massive sways of built-up areas which would take ages to render. Angola is 99% bush with a couple of shanty towns and villages scattered here and there. Yet another performance gain. And if you don't believe me, go check your frames over Dubai and then in the middle of the Iranian desert somewhere, and then come back and tell me huge cities are a good idea.

 

Besides, we already have an eastern European map and I've been flying it since 2003. I'm long since bored with the scenery and it's about time we get something for the most war-ravaged continent on the globe...


Edited by Ozone1
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I think I might have gotten the wrong end off the stick there... If you were referring to the Nordic countries and not Angola anyways... Cause in that case I agree. It would end up being a full-on invasion scenario that would necessitate more than DCS could currently handle... But as Fri says, we'll have to see what Vulcan can do.

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Besides, we already have an eastern European map and I've been flying it since 2003. I'm long since bored with the scenery and it's about time we get something for the most war-ravaged continent on the globe...

 

:thumbup:

 

Angola or Ethiopia - Eritrea. Perfect fit.

 

Libya or Egypt also and they could be WWII or Modern maps

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Another idea - 80's WW3 US invasion of Soviet Union Sakhalin and Far East. Just ocean and bare rocks.

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I am waiting a Vulcan, Multi-core support and new dynamic campaign features for that. ;)

 

 

 

As DCS cant be for long limited to sub 300 units maps.

 

Hope in one hand and you know what in the other...

 

I think Vulkan will help some, but its not going to be a miracle IMO.

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"And DCS would DIE... I mean an actual cold war era FEBA? You are talking thousands of units. DCS chokes on a few hundred currently"

 

Bro, what are you talking about? The Angolan conflict was a low-intensity war. They were never more than 5000 SADF Troops on the whole border and only saw very limited amounts of aircraft in the sky at any one time. It's perfectly suited to DCS, unlike something like the Caucuses or Hormuz which would, in reality, see massive amounts of aircraft in the sky, should an actual conflict between major powers occur there. Not to mention the millions of ground and naval units that would be swarming the area, all spewing out radar emissions in every direction.

 

And although I agree, the Baltic would be a nice map, it has massive sways of built-up areas which would take ages to render. Angola is 99% bush with a couple of shanty towns and villages scattered here and there. Yet another performance gain. And if you don't believe me, go check your frames over Dubai and then in the middle of the Iranian desert somewhere, and then come back and tell me huge cities are a good idea.

 

Besides, we already have an eastern European map and I've been flying it since 2003. I'm long since bored with the scenery and it's about time we get something for the most war-ravaged continent on the globe...

 

I was talking about the FULDA GAP BRO :music_whistling:

 

Angola is probably a better fit for DCS, but at the same time its a niche conflict but the area to model is huge by DCS standards. Plus I don't think its of interest, plus the rather precieived "politically incorrect" nature of the war would probably make it less attractive to ED.

 

To really do Angola, or other low intensity conflicts well, DCS would have to really improve the FAC/player interaction. Plus model different FAC structures and procedures. Its not like the russian airforce uses a nine-line, and NATO certainly didn't in the 80's. Plus infantry modeling and anti infantry weps would need some serious work too.


Edited by Harlikwin

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I am waiting a Vulcan, Multi-core support and new dynamic campaign features for that. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As DCS cant be for long limited to sub 300 units maps.

Hm, running a mission with about 300 units should not even have a noticable impact.

Unless you have heavy use of continuous/switched conditions triggers and/or scripting on large tables etc. DCS should be able to handle 1000 + units/objects decently, with a mid class rig. I currently test a mission in MP with 1100+ units and some moose scripts and it's running fine on my rig (specs in the signature).

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Yeah, figured that out afterward... I was a bit drunk on wife beater when I got home last night and ended up scrolling right past Fri13's comment...

 

But I wouldn't go so far as to say Angola was a niche conflict. It did last a quarter of a century and involve both superpowers... Be it only clandestine involvement for the US... And only because congress wouldn't allow them to put boots on the ground because they had just got out of Vietnam.

 

And it's not like they have to do the whole county either. Almost all the fighting happened in the Southern half of the country and the area needed is less than that of the Hormuz map. And it would be way less work to make, even if they did do the whole country.

 

As to infantry modeling and the likes, that's needed some major attention for a while now. It's not like it's specifically essential for Angola any more than it is for the other maps. Infantry just sucks in general right now.

 

And it might not be of interest to you, but it is to me... And I assure you, many many others. And the lack of cities and diversity of terrain would guarantee it being a popular map. Besides, there's no end of war scenarios to dream up when it comes to African conflicts. They're a dime a dozen this side of the world...

Angola.png.b085db50feef0e12773816918f69abc4.png

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Hm, running a mission with about 300 units should not even have a noticable impact.

Unless you have heavy use of continuous/switched conditions triggers and/or scripting on large tables etc. DCS should be able to handle 1000 + units/objects decently, with a mid class rig. I currently test a mission in MP with 1100+ units and some moose scripts and it's running fine on my rig (specs in the signature).

 

Just to play devils advocate. Oversimplifying, how many units is each Soviet guards army, the 8th and the 1st. How many units are in the US V corps. Plus how much in the way of supply units and support units are we modeling. How many 100's of fighters are we modeling at any given moment? How many SAMS's Arty shells, tanks shells, and "bullets" etc are in flight at any given moment?


Edited by Harlikwin

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Yeah, figured that out afterward... I was a bit drunk on wife beater when I got home last night and ended up scrolling right past Fri13's comment...

 

But I wouldn't go so far as to say Angola was a niche conflict. It did last a quarter of a century and involve both superpowers... Be it only clandestine involvement for the US... And only because congress wouldn't allow them to put boots on the ground because they had just got out of Vietnam.

 

And it's not like they have to do the whole county either. Almost all the fighting happened in the Southern half of the country and the area needed is less than that of the Hormuz map. And it would be way less work to make, even if they did do the whole country.

 

As to infantry modeling and the likes, that's needed some major attention for a while now. It's not like it's specifically essential for Angola any more than it is for the other maps. Infantry just sucks in general right now.

 

And it might not be of interest to you, but it is to me... And I assure you, many many others. And the lack of cities and diversity of terrain would guarantee it being a popular map. Besides, there's no end of war scenarios to dream up when it comes to African conflicts. They're a dime a dozen this side of the world...

 

I assume you were replying to me.

 

And I'd love to understand that particular South African idiom a bit more, it sounds kinda bad from a 'murican standpoint :).

 

And to a point I agree, I am somewhat familiar with the conflict as its interesting historically, as well as the earlier one to the "north" involving green leader and a certain tower in Lusaka. But also, from a modern politically correct standpoint, you'd probably have some trouble selling it in the US/Europe as anything seen promoting the apartheid era government(s) would probably be an anathema.

 

From a technical standpoint, I think the map size is realistically fixed, and if you look at total land area modeled for the maps both the Caucus and the Gulf have alot of water in them. So its best not to do a square box, but rather compute the Square km of land surface that needs modeling. Maybe the NTTR map is a better comparison for it, and I "think" the detailed area is smaller.

 

And really ED needs to do some serious work for CAS in general to include some sort of non-stupid AI for things like "firefights" and overall "engagement" mechanics on the ground, long before they add the CAS layer on top of it.

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