Little_D Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi gents, is there somewhere a chart or something like this, where i can see the convergenz settings for the 13mm and 30mm in the 109, like in the FW190D-9, where i know the "visierschuss" is set to 600m and the 20mm cross the first time the visierline at 125m? regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 You mean.. for the wing mounted gunnery..? Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 if you look into: E:\DCS World\CoreMods\WWII Units\Bf-109K-4 and open the Bf-109K-4.lua, you see that both the cannon and the machine guns are pointing downwards from the beginning: for the machineguns: elevation_initial = -0.298, and for the cannon: elevation_initial = -0.069, for the machine guns i guess it makes sense to meet the cannon rounds at convergence distance...but why the cannon is pointing downwards seems odd for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi 9./JG27 DavidRed, thx, but this is strange. Did some tests and it looks like both, the 13mm and 30mm, cross the gunsightline the first time at 100m. Some other thing is why we have no tracer in the 30mm? As from the "Schießfiebel" 1944 the guns should be loaded like this: 1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + ......... and the german 20mm/30mm Brandgranate had a withe tracer. https://ia600204.us.archive.org/13/items/Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel/OberkommandoDerLuftwaffe-Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel194436S.Scan.pdf regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Minengeschoss tracers are actually in DCS. All it takes is one digit changed in the Lua and they work. Doesn't get through integrity check though. Don't ask me why it isn't implemented as it looks rather nice. 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel4y Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Hey Little_D! You are absolutely correct on the Brandgranatpatrone. But it didnt have a tracer in reality, that is a mistake in the german docs. ;) I opened a bug report about this some time ago. ED has actually modeled and mislabeled the M-Brandgranatpatrone as the Brandgranatpatrone. This one is a late war hybrid of the two most effective rounds in the german arsenal. Here you can find my report and also the official June 1944 loadout orders from LDv 4000/10: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170408 MG 131 and Mk 108 rounds should cross vertical flight paths at around 140 m and 400 m. These numbers are taken from a G6U4 flight manual. Hope that helps. Edited November 21, 2016 by rel4y Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916 Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hi 9./JG27 DavidRed, thx, but this is strange. Did some tests and it looks like both, the 13mm and 30mm, cross the gunsightline the first time at 100m. Some other thing is why we have no tracer in the 30mm? As from the "Schießfiebel" 1944 the guns should be loaded like this: 1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + ......... and the german 20mm/30mm Brandgranate had a withe tracer. https://ia600204.us.archive.org/13/items/Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel/OberkommandoDerLuftwaffe-Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel194436S.Scan.pdf regards Little_D There is a mod out there for 30 mm tracers https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135841 but if you use it you can't use mw50 if i remember corectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel4y Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 You can easily do it yourself. Everything will work perfectly except it doesnt pass the integrity check online. Go to: ...\DCS World\CoreMods\WWII Units\Bf-109K-4 look for: -- Nose MK 108 MK_108({ muzzle_pos_connector = "Gun_point_0", effect_arg_number = 350, mixes = {{1, 3}}, azimuth_initial = 0, elevation_initial = -0.069, supply_position = {0.024, 0.0, 0.0}, drop_cartridge = 0, ejector_pos_connector = "eject 1", ejector_dir = {0,5,0}, and change mixes = {{1, 3}}, to mixes = {{2, 1, 3}}, or if you want only mine shells which currently is more effective change to mixes = {{2, 1}},. 1 = mine shell 2 = mine shell tracer 3 = Brandgranatpatrone (which is mislabeled) Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916 Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBillKelsoe Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 convergenz in 109? I think everone who flies WW2 in DCS should aim to squeeze once the wings pop outside the 100 mil circle, and skip convergence.. I am not attacking OP just stating the obvious. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jafferson Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Hi 9./JG27 DavidRed, thx, but this is strange. Did some tests and it looks like both, the 13mm and 30mm, cross the gunsightline the first time at 100m. Some other thing is why we have no tracer in the 30mm? As from the "Schießfiebel" 1944 the guns should be loaded like this: 1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + ......... and the german 20mm/30mm Brandgranate had a withe tracer. https://ia600204.us.archive.org/13/items/Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel/OberkommandoDerLuftwaffe-Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel194436S.Scan.pdf regards Little_D Thank you realy helpfull :smartass: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Hey Little_D! You are absolutely correct on the Brandgranatpatrone. But it didnt have a tracer in reality, that is a mistake in the german docs. ;) Hi rel4y, I was wondering if you have a source for this? How do you know the document is incorrect? 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel4y Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) Well I posted part of the Rechlin/WKW blueprints which were handed to the industry for production. If these don't show tracers, there were no tracers. Also if you calculate volume vs density/weight of the filler there is no space for a tracer considering the total weight. Pictures of original ammo don't have the tracer band painted on them. What better sources could you wish for? Edited December 3, 2016 by rel4y Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916 Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatikus Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 of course there were tracers... last three are tracers... far on the right is SpGr and the next two are MGe with different fuze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel4y Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) I think you guys misread what I said. I have never seen of heard of Brandgranatpatrone with tracer. All other ammo obviously did have Leuchtspur/Glimmspur. The late Ausf. C MG you posted much more readily than the Ausf. A that is modeled in DCS btw. PS: The Sprenggranate was afaik never used operationally in the MK 108. Edited December 5, 2016 by rel4y Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916 Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Ah yes apologies. I understood you as saying there were no tracers for the MK 108 at all. According to your research topic though all day and night fighters were recommended to carry a load with M-Geschoßpatrone Gl'spur. Do you know if this is also an error? Is this the round modeled (although not used in the loadout) in DCS? I noticed it had red/whitish tracers and not green ones like the L'spur on the 131. 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel4y Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) After about mid 44 the day/ nighttracer 30mm variants were readily available. Between mid 44 and October 44 ~ 1.000.000 shot MinenG L.Spur had been delivered to the front. I would assume from Me 262 footage I have seen that to some extend tracers were in the MK 108 mix. But it doesnt look like every second round. I really dont know about the 109. The round modeled is a Ausf. C Minengeschoss Leuchtspur (day tracer), a bright white tracer would be correct on this one. Afaik the 13 mm should also have white tracers. I posted about this some time ago in another subforum. Edit: Maybe I am wrong on the 13mm green tracers though, I am waiting on some docs that may clear this up. Edited December 5, 2016 by rel4y 1 Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916 Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 is there any sense in having the mk108 pointing downwards?anybody knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 What's the exact difference between Leuchtspur and Glimmspur type tracers? Just the intensity of the light? Does anyone know? http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel4y Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Glimmspur is the nighttracer variant and burns in dimm orange/ red. I has less Magnesium content than the daytracer (Leuchtspur) does. There are several different Leuchtspur variants, eg the Panzer forces and PAK sometimes used changeing color tracers for ranging purposes. Furthermore the tracers usually started when already ~ 100m away. But sadly there is a lot of documentation missing on this front. Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916 Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Interesting info rel4y, thanks a lot. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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