convergenz in 109?

Hi gents,

is there somewhere a chart or something like this, where i can see the convergenz settings for the 13mm and 30mm in the 109, like in the FW190D-9, where i know the "visierschuss" is set to 600m and the 20mm cross the first time the visierline at 125m?

regards

Little_D

You mean.. for the wing mounted gunnery..?

if you look into:

E:\DCS World\CoreMods\WWII Units\Bf-109K-4 and open the Bf-109K-4.lua, you see that both the cannon and the machine guns are pointing downwards from the beginning:

for the machineguns:
elevation_initial = -0.298,

and for the cannon:
elevation_initial = -0.069,

for the machine guns i guess it makes sense to meet the cannon rounds at convergence distance...but why the cannon is pointing downwards seems odd for me.

Hi 9./JG27 DavidRed,

thx, but this is strange. Did some tests and it looks like both, the 13mm and 30mm, cross the gunsightline the first time at 100m.

Some other thing is why we have no tracer in the 30mm? As from the "Schießfiebel" 1944 the guns should be loaded like this:

1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + ......... and the german 20mm/30mm Brandgranate had a withe tracer.

https://ia600204.us.archive.org/13/items/Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel/OberkommandoDerLuftwaffe-Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel194436S.Scan.pdf

regards

Little_D

Minengeschoss tracers are actually in DCS. All it takes is one digit changed in the Lua and they work. Doesn't get through integrity check though. Don't ask me why it isn't implemented as it looks rather nice.

Hey Little_D!

You are absolutely correct on the Brandgranatpatrone. But it didnt have a tracer in reality, that is a mistake in the german docs. ;) I opened a bug report about this some time ago. ED has actually modeled and mislabeled the M-Brandgranatpatrone as the Brandgranatpatrone. This one is a late war hybrid of the two most effective rounds in the german arsenal. Here you can find my report and also the official June 1944 loadout orders from LDv 4000/10: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170408

MG 131 and Mk 108 rounds should cross vertical flight paths at around 140 m and 400 m. These numbers are taken from a G6U4 flight manual.

Hope that helps.

Hi 9./JG27 DavidRed,

 

thx, but this is strange. Did some tests and it looks like both, the 13mm and 30mm, cross the gunsightline the first time at 100m.

 

Some other thing is why we have no tracer in the 30mm? As from the "Schießfiebel" 1944 the guns should be loaded like this:

 

1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + ......... and the german 20mm/30mm Brandgranate had a withe tracer.

 

https://ia600204.us.archive.org/13/items/Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel/OberkommandoDerLuftwaffe-Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel194436S.Scan.pdf

 

regards

 

Little_D

There is a mod out there for 30 mm tracers https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135841

but if you use it you can't use mw50 if i remember corectly.

You can easily do it yourself. Everything will work perfectly except it doesnt pass the integrity check online.

Go to:

...\DCS World\CoreMods\WWII Units\Bf-109K-4

look for:

-- Nose MK 108

MK_108({

muzzle_pos_connector = "Gun_point_0",

effect_arg_number = 350,

mixes = {{1, 3}},

azimuth_initial = 0,

elevation_initial = -0.069,

supply_position = {0.024, 0.0, 0.0},

drop_cartridge = 0,

ejector_pos_connector = "eject 1",

ejector_dir = {0,5,0},

and change

mixes = {{1, 3}}, to

mixes = {{2, 1, 3}}, or if you want only mine shells which currently is more effective change to mixes = {{2, 1}},.

1 = mine shell

2 = mine shell tracer

3 = Brandgranatpatrone (which is mislabeled)

convergenz in 109?

I think everone who flies WW2 in DCS should aim to squeeze once the wings pop outside the 100 mil circle, and skip convergence.. I am not attacking OP just stating the obvious.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi 9./JG27 DavidRed,

 

thx, but this is strange. Did some tests and it looks like both, the 13mm and 30mm, cross the gunsightline the first time at 100m.

 

Some other thing is why we have no tracer in the 30mm? As from the "Schießfiebel" 1944 the guns should be loaded like this:

 

1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + ......... and the german 20mm/30mm Brandgranate had a withe tracer.

 

https://ia600204.us.archive.org/13/items/Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel/OberkommandoDerLuftwaffe-Horrido-DesJaegersSchiessfibel194436S.Scan.pdf

 

regards

 

Little_D

Thank you realy helpfull :smartass:

Hey Little_D!

 

You are absolutely correct on the Brandgranatpatrone. But it didnt have a tracer in reality, that is a mistake in the german docs. ;)

Hi rel4y,

I was wondering if you have a source for this? How do you know the document is incorrect?

Well I posted part of the Rechlin/WKW blueprints which were handed to the industry for production. If these don't show tracers, there were no tracers. Also if you calculate volume vs density/weight of the filler there is no space for a tracer considering the total weight. Pictures of original ammo don't have the tracer band painted on them. What better sources could you wish for?

of course there were tracers...

last three are tracers... far on the right is SpGr and the next two are MGe with different fuze

I think you guys misread what I said. I have never seen of heard of Brandgranatpatrone with tracer. All other ammo obviously did have Leuchtspur/Glimmspur. The late Ausf. C MG you posted much more readily than the Ausf. A that is modeled in DCS btw.

PS: The Sprenggranate was afaik never used operationally in the MK 108.

Ah yes apologies. I understood you as saying there were no tracers for the MK 108 at all.

According to your research topic though all day and night fighters were recommended to carry a load with M-Geschoßpatrone Gl'spur. Do you know if this is also an error? Is this the round modeled (although not used in the loadout) in DCS? I noticed it had red/whitish tracers and not green ones like the L'spur on the 131.

After about mid 44 the day/ nighttracer 30mm variants were readily available. Between mid 44 and October 44 ~ 1.000.000 shot MinenG L.Spur had been delivered to the front. I would assume from Me 262 footage I have seen that to some extend tracers were in the MK 108 mix. But it doesnt look like every second round. I really dont know about the 109.

The round modeled is a Ausf. C Minengeschoss Leuchtspur (day tracer), a bright white tracer would be correct on this one. Afaik the 13 mm should also have white tracers. I posted about this some time ago in another subforum.

Edit: Maybe I am wrong on the 13mm green tracers though, I am waiting on some docs that may clear this up.

is there any sense in having the mk108 pointing downwards?anybody knows?

What's the exact difference between Leuchtspur and Glimmspur type tracers? Just the intensity of the light? Does anyone know?

Glimmspur is the nighttracer variant and burns in dimm orange/ red. I has less Magnesium content than the daytracer (Leuchtspur) does. There are several different Leuchtspur variants, eg the Panzer forces and PAK sometimes used changeing color tracers for ranging purposes. Furthermore the tracers usually started when already ~ 100m away. But sadly there is a lot of documentation missing on this front.

Interesting info rel4y, thanks a lot.