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do you like the Gaz or Huey


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@borchi 2b and Damcopter

 

I appreciate you guys getting together to look into things that might be improved or changed. I am sure any piece of software in general, or dcs module in particular, can always be tweaked and made better independently of the maturity of the product at the time. And the devs being open and welcoming to a new perspective that can shed a different light on their product is commendable. Keep it up!

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Polychop and me will perform a test flight tonight.

They seem to be very open-minded and they want to enhance the FM of the Gazelle.

We have already spoken on Discord yesterday and the work in front of them will probably be huge, according to what I've told them... so we will have to be patient for the result.

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Polychop and me will perform a test flight tonight.

They seem to be very open-minded and they want to enhance the FM of the Gazelle.

We have already spoken on Discord yesterday and the work in front of them will probably be huge, according to what I've told them... so we will have to be patient for the result.

 

Excellent, I want to feel that fenestron and make my feet work!

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There are 4 points to discuss:

 

1: behaviour of the frame under the rotor

2: correspondence between the cyclic position and the attitude of the helicoptere

3: attitude during big movement of the collective lever (roll and pitch)

4: lack of inertia. Apparent weight especially at maximum TakeOff weight...

 

I am really happy if we could work together in order to improve this beautiful chopper. All the DCS community will be able to access these impovements.

 

Great... Excellent interaction with Polychop, lets hope these discussions end up with a more realistic FM. I have heard these same points several times from RL experienced folk.. and they can be easily demonstrated...

 

I suspend reality to those points but still really enjoy the tactical experience this great crafted model offers.

 

:thumbup: Damcopter

:thumbup: Polychop

 

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Eviscerador I think the FM will still be challenging for a casual user, although maybe a little bit easier, but it will never be as easy and forgiving as a Huey or Mi-8, simply because the rotor does have less inertia and it is a light helicopter.

 

But I'm really looking forward for those many discrepancies in the FM being ironed out.

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That's not what some Huey pilots have said....but what do they know anyways eh?

You didn't get what i meant. I was talking about our hardware. The joystick we use, don't match with the real helicopter, so we will never have exactly the same experience like a real one. Anyway, DCS Huey have 4 more years than Gazelle, and it didn't have implemented EGT until last year, so maybe just stating this is bullshit, without helping, it's nonsense. And once this is said, this post was about our preference, no about FMs.

Chinook lover - Rober -

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I have no idea about the Gazelle real flight performance, but it just feels wrong in DCS. I did fly her maybe 6-9 months ago and it was back then just a "driving on rails" kind experience. Way too easy to handle accurately and do the maneuvers as it didn't have any "float" nor "inertia" that KA-50 or Mi-8 does have.

 

It really was more like a flying some old late 90's simulators like "Gunship!" or like flying in ARMA 2.

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I have no idea about the Gazelle real flight performance, but it just feels wrong in DCS. I did fly her maybe 6-9 months ago and it was back then just a "driving on rails" kind experience. Way too easy to handle accurately and do the maneuvers as it didn't have any "float" nor "inertia" that KA-50 or Mi-8 does have.

 

It really was more like a flying some old late 90's simulators like "Gunship!" or like flying in ARMA 2.

PC did a FM change after that so try it again! And as I said, this is not the thread for this!

Chinook lover - Rober -

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  • 10 months later...

The gazelle is not an option for me, in its current state. I have not played this module for nearly a year. If so, I'm mostly on the Mi-8. And hopefully soon with the modernized Ka-50 module :-)

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  • 3 weeks later...
@Damcopter : Just drop me a personal message and we can discuss certain aspects. We can also share our real names that way and if it is ok for you I would forward the information to the commander of Le Luc, who invited us already to see the base and the flightschool for a day or 2. I am open to any professional discussion and would send the information gatherred in a private discussion forward to a buddy of mine who flys the Gazelle for the french special forces.

 

So this 'promising' consultation and investigation into the correct aircraft performance between yourself and Damcopter happened a year ago now - did these improvements/refinements in the FM ever eventuate, or was it all just hot air? Actions speak louder than words.

Did your 'buddy who flies for the special forces' assist with FM refinements?


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There is no need for such a tone in your messages, we're always open for discussion. I understand your sentiment though as it takes a long time. We're in contact with 2 SME's other than Damcopter in order to prepare for a flightmodel update. I'm repeating myself but I want to be clear on this; Polychop is a small team and we're working on a new module, with different approaches to flightmodel coding, graphics etc. This new module will pave the way for Gazelle updates. In the mean time any Gazelle updates will be critical bugfixes, which we're working on as well.

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  • 2 months later...

I never knew about the Gazelle. I will download it tonight. I just got back into DCS again since I started using VR (what a game changer!)...

 

I am also very EXCITED about the Kiowa Warrior and looking forward to it. BTW I have numerous REAL pilot friends and coworkers with 10’s of thousands of hours of combined OH-58D combat time, if you need any additional consultation.

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Ok. My take on the Gazelle vs. Huey

 

Disclaimer:

DCS is a simulation. Helicopters are inherantly difficult to simulate, due to all of the aerodynamics involved. DCS does provide a pretty good flight environment model though; and its been demonstrated by the first three helicopters. The other issue is lack of proprioceptive/vestibular motion and the availability of realistic simulator flight controls. It will never be true to life, but a good developer realizes this and adjusts accordingly.

 

With that being said, I loaded up the Huey with my MS FFB2, CH throttle (strapped to the side of my chair with reverse axis to simulate collective), and my cheap saitek pedals. I was able to pick the huey right up to a hover and with very little practice, it became familiar as a helicopter and easy to fly. With no SCAS/SAS/stability it is a workload, and that is very well simulated. You can feel its performance change, based on DA and weight. It takes good attention and power management to fly.

 

The Gazelle, on the other hand, is horrible in contrast to not only the Huey, but every sim helicopter I’ve ever tried since 2004. I can tweak the excessively sensitive controls as needed and its awkward for me as I’m not used to flying clockwise main rotor aircraft, but this thing just does not fly realistically at all. How does it have so much power? I fly IRL daily in a dual 760 shaft hp bird by the same manufacturer and even on a low density altitude day at 2000 lbs under max gross, I would overtorque the shit out of the main transmission and hit N1 engine limits trying to give it the power that this single 590 hp Gazelle engine simulates in DCS.

 

I get its a rigid rotor system and the cyclic is sensitive. That doesn’t mean it has to become even more sensitive in the sim. Force trim should also work properly. It does on the other three DCS helicopters.

 

My favorite test of any sim helicopter is autorotations. I get that the Gaxelle has a very low inertia rotor system using fiberglass reinforced plastic blades, but at a 100 knot autorotational entry, I should be able to maintain NRO at >60 kts and maintain a glide rate commesurate with airspeed. This is a single engine combat aircraft. Its ability to propey autorotate is critical.

 

I kinda regret spending the money on it. You guys at PC really need to go back to the drawing board. I can understand why so many of your customers are upset.

 

Graphics wise, its a great looking model. I would add a little more bright contrast in the cockpit to make the gauges more readable.

 

I hope you do a much better job on the Kiowa.

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