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Old 01-24-2020, 07:10 AM   #71
KennyG
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Totally agree again. ED is probably running on fumes, hand to mouth, based on sales of the latest pre-release thing. A well managed campaign server would be a great subscription incentive as well. I don't see why they would want to spend good development resources on the dynamic campaign when they can probably get a couple gaming junkies to manage a big server like that for a pittance and potentially bring in a load of revenue.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:17 AM   #72
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125? Ok, I misremembered and we can go with that. It's morevthan a handful, regardless and I'm sure at least one is an accountant. Also, you didn't look very hard, cause there's been a half dozen in the last month or two I remember offhand.


@Kenny
That's ridiculous. The community ALREADY more or less has running campaigns. Why would anyone possibly pay a MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION for a multiplayer server instead of one that's free? The only way this notion works is if they shut down community servers altogether to force it.


People pull the most ridiculous notions out of thin air and act like it's a golden ticket nobody thought of before. Damn glad ED don't listen to these folks, they'd have been shuttered ten years ago @@ People bitch about paying for asset packs, and your idea is sell them monthly fees for a glorified mission generator? Yeah, THAT'S gonna go over great.


I hope Electronic Arts isn't watching. They love that sort of thing
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:54 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
People pull the most ridiculous notions out of thin air and act like it's a golden ticket nobody thought of before.
Look at it from the bright side.
At least they are not as bad as those Wiccan UFO weirdos.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:56 AM   #74
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I'm against the idea mostly because steady subscription income removes incentive to work on a better product. Sure, some examples of companies that make a good use of such a business model exist and were mentioned in this thread, but so were the companies which got lazy instead, because with money coming anyway, they lost motivation. So it depends on management and people rather than model itself. There's no guarantee that ED would fall into the first category - it's only an optimistic assumption, equally valid to pesimistic concerns of those who perceive ED as a chaotic producer with no clear development picture in mind.

I also don't see comparisons with iRacing valid. First, it's a racing sim (a genre which is multitude times more popular than flight sims), second - it's been designed as a MP-only, subscription based product from the get go. Flight sims are a niche in comparison, combat flight sims are niche within a niche, study combat flight sims are a niche within a niche within a niche, and MP community of flight sims is a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche . Simply put - apples and oranges.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:50 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by DigitalEngine View Post


This subject has had many threads created for it, and no, I'm not gonna search and count them all . The above image is from one such thread/poll I found fairly quickly.
Wags, at sometime, made a short passing comment on the subject sometime back, stating as it was not in the interest of Eagle Dynamics for such, and no, I'm not gonna search for that post either . However, you can.

If your really seriously interested in the financial viability of Eagle Dynamics and it's associated organization "The Fighter Collection" there are a few things YOU can do right now, and in the years to come.
  1. You could purchase at least one Eagle Dynamics product every month or two. At the date of this post there are a total of 72 (yes that's SEVENTY TWO) Eagle Dynamics products available for purchase today. If you purchase one DCS product a month, it would take you six years to purchase the DCS products available as of the date of this post!
  2. or, if you are really, really totally serious about the viability of Eagle Dynamics you could purchase all available 72 products, at full price, which would only cost you US$2,158.34 as of the date of this post. In addition you will have the opportunity to purchase system upgrades for the Blackshark and A-10C soon at full price, plus even more upcoming modules, maps and campaigns as they go full price after the per-purchase sale opportunities.
  3. You could purchase duplicates of DCS product you already have and gift it to someone who may show an interest in DCS, however, has not purchased a dcs product yet, or gift it to someone who is a DCS fan whom cannot afford to purchase it at the moment, or just gift it to family or friends.
  4. You could join the Friends of the Fighter Collection for £15.00 / year, or get a family subscription for £25.00 / year.
  5. You could purchase gift items from the Fighter Collection Shop (books, clothing, badges, caps).
However, if your wanting to access $2,158.34 (plus much more monetary value coming in the next couple of years, likely be more than doubled that) of Eagle Dynamics products for only one or two hundred dollars a year, you seriously are not having the best interest of of the Eagle Dynamics / Fighter Collection as your motive.

Just call it for what it is, if someone wants total access to $2K to $4K of software products for about a 90% - 80% discount, it's for the selfish best interest of themselves, and has nothing to do with the caring of the viability of the ED/FC group.

On a different note, it would not surprise me, and I personally kinda expect for MAC to be a subscription based service, namely, as all the aircraft, systems wise, will be the same, or mostly similar to each other, differing FM and wrappers, but the same basic or simplified aircraft, systems wise, and as such marketed to a differing customer base, than a "study simulation". Me personally, not my interest at all, however, I personally expect MAC to be a successful product.
I already own every module, map and campaign available for DCS. I only fly a couple. I often buy copies for friends. I look at the hours I spend compared to other hobbies,around 30 per month, and it's a fricking cheap spend. I can understand if you only play 5 hours a month that a sub seems expensive, but up that to ten and $20 is a bargain. If you think $20 is toouch, you must underappreciate the manhours it takes to make this kind of game, or you're stuck in the past when subscriptions only related to your monthly guns n ammo mag.


I find it really hard to believe you guys think ED is adequately resourced... when they haven't even released the template for the F-16. Wake up and smell the coffee before it gets poured down the sink.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:15 PM   #76
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oh, i got an idea:

simple as that : F18D !

seriously, ED throw in a kind of jester AI, change some values here and there and give a 3d model for the plane.
99.9% commonality with F18c .
complete F18c and F18d and sell D variant to full price, so we have 2 >>complete<< modules.
then they make F18e and F18f with simple or "average" systems complexity , afterall many planes module are simple systems and noone is crying about it (su27, su33, F15, A10a, su25t, ecc).
and again commonality from F18c is really, really high , lets say 90% .
sell F18e and F18f at full-discounted price and you have 4 complete modules, offering 4 different planes, with in fact a huge commonality for ED that means 1 work 4 times the results.

PROS:
we dont have to pay montly fees or re-buy already owned modules
we can choose if / what to buy
all this 4 modules would be completed, so an high quality experience for users.
already owned modules stay as they are and no need to pay again.
3 new modules would bring more fresh air to DCS
ED gets 4 times (supposing all buy) the revenue of F18
ED gets a image improvement delivering complete modules.
ED will get all this with a 0.1% work on F18d and a 10% work on F18e and F18f

CONS:
honestly i dont see any cons… seems a win-win situation.

customers get new modules and completed F18c, and choose if and what to buy.
are not forced at all, just get "more" options.
ED gets more revenue in a legit way, and with a very little work.

yeah yeah, you can get this idea for free ED, i dont apply any charge, LOL !
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:16 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art-J View Post
I'm against the idea mostly because steady subscription income removes incentive to work on a better product. Sure, some examples of companies that make a good use of such a business model exist and were mentioned in this thread, but so were the companies which got lazy instead, because with money coming anyway, they lost motivation. So it depends on management and people rather than model itself. There's no guarantee that ED would fall into the first category - it's only an optimistic assumption, equally valid to pesimistic concerns of those who perceive ED as a chaotic producer with no clear development picture in mind.
How do you stay inspired as an employee? Does your employer give you year's salary upfront, and you promise to deliver (kinda like sellinf early release modules today). Or do you get paid on a monthly basis? Which method proves to work best at delivering maximum benefit for both employer and employee?
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:18 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post


I hope Electronic Arts isn't watching. They love that sort of thing
Is that the same EA that is the biggest publisher in the world? That EA? They must sell so many games because their titles are crap.
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:46 AM   #79
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You're literally the only person I've ever seen defend EA, arguably one of the most reprehensible and greedy companies in gaming, best known for buying up popular franchises and utterly running them into the ground as well as repackaging the same game copy/paste style while still charging $60+ (in some cases caught ACTUALLY copy pasting their games).

Yes, they completely suck and exist solely because the average gamer is a moron.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:00 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by GunSlingerAUS View Post
Is that the same EA that is the biggest publisher in the world? That EA? They must sell so many games because their titles are crap.

And the same EA that won the consumerist 'worst company of the year' two years straight. The same EA that's literally Destroyed some the greatest video game series and publishers ever.


EA is like a video game factory..sure they sell lots of games and they pump them out fast, but they're quality is absolute garbage, They've had to resort to straight up gambling tactics to get people to keep playing and spending money. They are IMHO the biggest problem with the gaming industry right now, They have so much cash they no longer need to care what the average player thinks of them. The Exact situation subscription Schemes create.

That's like saying McDonald's has the best burgers because they sell the most.


ED on the other hand is like a local craftsman, they take forever, they're very expensive, and they don't have the best customer service, but the end result is unbelievable quality. It's clear, regardless of how you feel about their practices, that their products are created with passion and experience, something a big developer like EA will NEVER have anymore, because they don't care too, it doesn't make them as much money.

Personally I'll take the long and expensive route for the better product any day of the week. That being said, current trends in the video game industry, don't really apply too the last realistic study simulation developer around. Many of it's employees are quite literally the only ones with experience in the modern flight simulator genre because they were doing it back in the days of Janes and Microprose. EDs customer base is loyal and they're not going anywhere. If for no other reason then the fact that there's nowhere else to go. No one besides ED is delivering products like this. Not their current competitors and certainly not the giants like EA.
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