Having a heck of a time

Boy this plane is giving me a run for my money. I am new to it but have gotten decent at take offs and landings with the 109, however with the mustang I bounce and skirt all over the runway on both take off and landing.

Before I started it up I read many how to's and manuals for it, I thought the 109 was supposed to be a "tougher" plane on take offs and landings? If I post a link to me taking off and a short flight with a landing would anyone care to comment on what I'm doing so wrong? I have thick skin and know its all my fault but I don't know what exactly I'm doing wrong.

Sure, post your video (or whatever ya got)!

I am getting the take off now, I wasn't letting the plane fly itself off the ground. However on landings, too fast? Tried trimming in other landings but, every landing is pretty similar to this one. Usually get a bounce, then a slam, then a burn or boom.

Jesus, that landing :/

Okay, little bit too hot and high, but the biggest mistake was chopping the throttle and then centering the stick, resulting in the slam as the nose dropped (dialed in some nose down trim, or not dialed in tail trim when lowering the flaps?).

Try forgetting about chopping the throttle or flaring, instead have the aircraft trimmed for level flight and just gently lower the throttle on approach and fly the airplane over the runway at a height of a foot or so under power, make sure your VSI is 0, then close the throttle and let it aircraft slowly glide onto its wheels.

Yes, you'll use a fair bit of runway, but once you get the hang of that you can start shortening it up and actually going by the book, flares and all.

Looks like Buzzles beat me to it, but I'm posting this unedited anyways:

Okay, I would correct the takeoff roll with aileron and rudder and do it a bit earlier. Smoothly increase throttle while correcting with aileron/rudder, you should lift at about 100mph. As I'm puling the gear I reset the rudder trim...Mine's on a a hat, so it's pretty easy. You're bringing your throttle up in chunks and doing that slowly, which prolongs takeoff roll and makes you correct more.

I definitely recommend enabling the control indicator (Right control + Enter) so you can see what inputs you're making and what your trim settings are

As for landings...Try flying that overhead pattern from higher, like 800ft AGL and 250mph for example. You gotta roll out on final a bit earlier, and make sure you're fully rolled out before trying to land...As you pull your power make sure you're correcting sideslip, glideslope, and start looking for 100ish mph on touchdown. I try to land 3 point. I float and bounce a little, but as long as you are near centerline or whichever side of the runway you want to be on, you're FINE. Just keep correcting EARLY, correct your plane in your mind before you even move the controls!

Thanks guys. I sure appreciate it. I don't know how I can land the 109 the way I do but in the p51 it makes me look like Ive never played a flight sim before :)

I'll keep trying and hopefully be able to show some successful and then beautiful landings in the future.

That was an interesting landing pattern. You were going upwind on the downwind side of the runway, right into the face of traffic heading the other direction. Being where you were in relation to the airfield, and wanting to land in the direction you did, you should have made a left turn soon enough before you got to the airfield to then make a right turn and enter the downwind leg at a 45 degree angle. Pattern altitude should be higher. I use 1,500 feet.

I'm going to guess you can't swim, because you didn't go over the water before you turned base. :) Wait to turn base until you are at a 45 degree angle to the approach end of the runway after you pass it. That will give you time to set up your final approach, make any adjustments to speed, rate of descent, and direction.

The other guys are right about not cutting the throttle completely. Practice will show you the correct amount of nose up at the right altitude above the runway to let you set down 3-point right at the stall. Fly the plane to the runway.

On takeoff, I use about 3 degrees of right rudder and 3.5 increments of nose down trim. I want the plane to lift off when I want it to, rather than jumping up on its own. Smooth on throttle inputs. Once the rudder is active, slightly forward on the stick, to get the tail up, and away you go.

One other thought: On approach, the stick controls speed, and the throttle controls rate of descent.

On takeoff, I use about 3 degrees of right rudder and 3.5 increments of nose down trim. I want the plane to lift off when I want it to, rather than jumping up on its own. Smooth on throttle inputs. Once the rudder is active, slightly forward on the stick, to get the tail up, and away you go.

 

One other thought: On approach, the stick controls speed, and the throttle controls rate of descent.

This is poetry- learn it- and use it when you fly. It will help you. I tried it tonight, and it helped a great deal.

What he said; the CFI who taught me tailwheel in the piper cub said the same thing. Aileron places you left-right on the runway, your feet keep the nose straight down the rwy, and elevator controls speed. The Rustang can land with a smidge of power on during the learn-in phase, no worries, use all of that runway to learn.

On take off, absolutely, what Buzzles and Co. above said - trim in the rudder and stick neutral, let the plane fly itself off the pavement. If you're skilled and wanting to fly off a short strip, get the tail up and keep her straight with your feet, you tell the plane when to fly at that point.

Violent movements of the throttle will invariably result in unpleasant left-right torque moment on the nose, which you will never be ready to deal with unless you have many hours in the plane and are used to it.

Once you get the hang of it, it will be genuinely fun to do even in bad weather; see below a video of me screwing around in a crosswind with the 51 - note that I rarely chop the throttle completely till all three wheels are down, but everyone lands the way that works for them!

The best course of action is to take the landing tutorial. It helped me a lot.

Nowadays my landings are usually better than my takeoffs in the mustang.

I can show you how i aproach a rwy in a P51.

Now it is not like i land everytime this way. If the given conditions are just like the one in your video and mine, you ''should'' take your time and never take shortcuts in order to get down as fast as possible. Use the room around the Airport.

Keep your sink rate around +- 500 foot a minute if you are on final. Directly above the rwy, slow your descending rate to a bare minimum.

Thanks everyone, my takeoffs now are straight as an arrow. I don't think I was setting enough rudder trim. Landings are still bouncy, but getting better. I don't think it's helping me that my X45 throttle has decided to do inputs anytime it wants, suddenly going to 100% power when I have it set at less than 50.

Well, my take offs now seem right down the runway, getting airborne no problems now, drifting or overcompensating a bit once in the air and going a bit right or left sometimes but, no wingman = no problems.

Landings.....well I'll post another video if you guys want to see it go ahead. I think I'm going to keep tracking my progress (hopefully not lack thereof) with each video. I guess I didn't burn up the plane, just bent a wing gear in, so not a good landing, but apart from the wheel caving in the plane is parked and in one piece. Thanks again everyone for all the pointers, in just two flights using some tips I have seen immense progress, now in the heat of the moment if I could remember all the tips that would probably make me decent :)

If anyone is having any trouble, I suggest listening to these tips on here, because its given me so much more confidence already. S! Everyone.

Also, is there a good server to fly these warbirds on once I get competent enough? Maybe for some dogfighting (which I'll start on after I learn to land better)

Try the BURNING SKIES WW2 Server

31.173.58.23:10308, connect with that ip in the multyplayer screen

Thanks everyone for the help, here's a quick video of your tips coming to fruition. Its a landing like my high school girlfriends, maybe not the prettiest, but effective.

Thanks everyone for the help, here's a quick video of your tips coming to fruition. Its a landing like my high school girlfriends, maybe not the prettiest, but effective.

 

That analogy, though...Lmao.

Not bad! That video looks a helluva lot better than the first one! :thumbup:

That analogy, though...Lmao.

 

Not bad! That video looks a helluva lot better than the first one! :thumbup:

It does look better than the first one.

I would recommend being at 1,500 feet downwind, and turning base much sooner. Altitude equals speed, and speed equals life. If the engine quits at 800 feet, with gear and flaps down, you have no where to go. Also, airfields typically have a set downwind altitude, so that everybody can see everybody else.

I drop the gear and flaps as I pass the threshold on the downwind leg.

On final, pick the spot on the runway where you want to touch down. Keep that spot in the same place on the windshield. If the spot starts moving up, you are too low. Add power. If the spot is moving down, decrease power. Always make small corrections, nothing dramatic.

Final approach is not starting low and then getting lower, so you don't do much of a flare. Down low, you can hardly see the runway. You should start the final at about 5-700 feet, descending at about 1,000 feet per minute, with the runway always in sight, and then flare to a 3-point stance, and let the plane settle in.

Let's see another vid soon. :thumbup::thumbup:

Take of and landing streamed live from my Cockpit yesterday (With some formation aerobatics in between :) )

https://www.facebook.com/thevirtualhorsemen/videos/10154716153949401/

The critical part of a good landing is to be perfectly straight on touchdown but this phase normally only lasts a second or so.

I suggest you do a normal approach and as you get near the flare gently add enough power to fly all the way down the runway at a few feet of height, keep the plane in the center with aileron and the nose pointed straight with rudder. This will give you a lot of practice in keeping the plane straight over the runway.

It will very likely touch down anyway at some point, see how it feels..... if it's good, ease back the throttle, start braking and come to a stop. Any quick or harsh application or reduction of power will be hard to correct - be gentle.

Awesome tips everyone. I appreciate it immensely, just wait until I get landings down (no pun intended) and I start asking for advice on how to stay alive and hit something online haha.

Some of my sudden throttle movements are from my Saitek X-45 throttle that has unfortunately decided to get a mind of its own. Should have my Thrustmaster Warthog by the 25th so hopefully that will help me keep a little bit better throttle control.

I'll give landing another try tonight soon and will post a video of however I do. See if I'm getting any better after a few days. I feel a heck of a lot more confident that's for sure. And believe me its come fast since all your help. Great community!

Here it is...notice my take off, I'm thinking its much improved :) The landing I felt was going well until I kind of got a little too happy I was on the ground and didn't pay attention to the slip indicator. :( Sorry I failed this one, but we will get there.

On an unrelated topic I need to thank everyone for an unintended little golden nugget from all this. My 6 year old son was watching me play and learn and getting the hang of it so he started to try as well. So now I think we have gotten a new age of flight simmer started. He can even start the mustang on full real settings. Hes not too good at the hotas yet, but he can mouse click everything and get the plane started. I call him my ground crew :) I just wish he could reach the pedals and get his hands around the throttle a little better, a bit too jumpy for the trackir yet though :)

Having just gone through all this myself I think you are just coming in too fast and touching down too fast.

The P51 takes longer to slow down in the air than a 109. Try slowing down to 110 to 120 mph before you cross the runway threshold. Then don't let your wheels touch down so fast. Don't "fly into the runway". As you slow down you will have to keep pulling the nose up to keep from gliding down onto the runway and stay a couple feet up until you can not keep it up any longer and it just falls onto the runway. Your stick will probably be way back at that point. if you bounce you will probably lose control because you are too fast. I always try to remember that takeoffs and landings take much longer in a P51 than a 109 or a Spit so you need extra patience waiting for it to get up to speed on take off or to slow down enough for touch down.

slyfly

Echo'ing what rtimmons said:

Way, way too fast. Definitely should be ~110 over the threshold.

Also, the reason why you skidded was because you put the joystick back to the middle.

Don't do that in the P-51 once you're actually on the deck. Keep it back to keep the rear wheel locked straight. Apply a bit of rudder to steer.

Much better than your first landing though!

Echo'ing what rtimmons said:

 

Way, way too fast. Definitely should be ~110 over the threshold.

 

Also, the reason why you skidded was because you put the cyclic back to the middle.

Don't do that in the P-51 once you're actually on the deck. Keep it back to keep the rear wheel locked straight. Apply a bit of rudder to steer.

 

Much better than your first landing though!

Cyclic?? You must have been flying a chopper before you typed that. :)

One question I do have though, I seem to remember reading somewhere that I should keep the rpm at around 2700? Seems that if I do I go way to fast and if I pull it down I slow down easier.

Should I keep the rpm up or no? Because if I go on throttle alone even all the way back to almost zero and it seems I'm still going too fast. Maybe another glitch with my stick or set up wrong?