What switch do you Warthog users map for the flaps on this plane?

Because of the unique infinite variability of the flaps, it seems the best switch to map to is the red china 3 position switch on the bottom right of the throttle (2 position momentary with middle position return)...

OR... is there another way?

I'm thinking of programming in a few stages to this scheme so if I there can be combat flaps, TO flaps, landing flaps, etc... It gets a bit tedius holding the switch down... Does anyone else have a favorite flaps setup that they use?

Hi Cavemanhead,

i use the coolie hat on the throttle (the one, you use with your left thump).

109:

hold coolie hat up = flaps up (T.a.r.g.e.t. HOLD)

hold coolie hat down = flaps down (T.a.r.g.e.t. HOLD)

190:

coolie hat up = flaps up position (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

coolie hat down = flaps full down position(T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

coolie hat left = flaps Take Off position (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

P-51:

coolie hat up = flaps 1 step up (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

coolie hat down = flaps 1 step down (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

I'm flying several DCS modules, so i'm trying to place main/common aircraft functions to the same buttons, switches and coolie hats on my WH.

Same goes for common stuff like zoom or chat. Water/Oil cooler stuff is on the throttles second coolie hat. The one you operate with your left trigger finger.

It really depends on what you want to achieve. In my case, the priority is on standardisation.

greez mugen

I simply use the three-way flaps switch to the left of the throttles.

Upper position for up, lower for down.

For the 190 lower position is take off flaps while the EAC switch under it is for landing flaps.

Like mugen I try to keep same switches through the modules, for me it is just the flaps switch in this case. :)

Hi Cavemanhead,

 

i use the coolie hat on the throttle (the one, you use with your left thump).

 

109:

hold coolie hat up = flaps up (T.a.r.g.e.t. HOLD)

hold coolie hat down = flaps down (T.a.r.g.e.t. HOLD)

 

190:

coolie hat up = flaps up position (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

coolie hat down = flaps full down position(T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

coolie hat left = flaps Take Off position (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

 

P-51:

coolie hat up = flaps 1 step up (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

coolie hat down = flaps 1 step down (T.a.r.g.e.t. PULSE)

 

I'm flying several DCS modules, so i'm trying to place main/common aircraft functions to the same buttons, switches and coolie hats on my WH.

Same goes for common stuff like zoom or chat. Water/Oil cooler stuff is on the throttles second coolie hat. The one you operate with your left trigger finger.

 

It really depends on what you want to achieve. In my case, the priority is on standardisation.

 

greez mugen

I simply use the three-way flaps switch to the left of the throttles.

 

Upper position for up, lower for down.

 

For the 190 lower position is take off flaps while the EAC switch under it is for landing flaps.

 

Like mugen I try to keep same switches through the modules, for me it is just the flaps switch in this case. :)

Yes, I too have a VERY STRONG priority for "standardization"... In fact, that is one of the reasons for my question... By design, the 109 flaps are "meant" for the 3 way China Hat since it returns to a "no state" when it falls back into it's middle, neutral position. This allows the switch to be held forward to retract the flaps or held backwards to extend the flaps to a desired amount (as long as the switch is physically held). Once the desired amount is achieved, the switch is physically let go, and it springs back into it's middle, neutral position. It appears to be the only switch on the throttle that operates like this... Logically, this operation "matches" the way in which the 109 flaps operate.

BUT...

Suppose I want to map the 109 type flap to the "FLAP" switch on the WH (the one that's meant to be a FLAP switch by default). That switch does a great job for a plane that has discrete stop points like the 190 because the forward position can be "retracted, middle can be TO Flaps and back position can be "retracts" (3 discrete steps)... SO... How does one overcome the issue that this switch stays in a given position for a plane like the 109... What happens then is that the flaps would indefinitely move to a retracted or extended position depending on the switch and the WH would continue getting the key command to extend or retract indefinitely... That would seem problematic...

Am I missing something here?

Hi Cavemanhead,

i do understand your point, regarding the china hat (I had the manual prop pitch on it, for quite a while). Same goes for the coolie hat. Manual push, auto return.

But the coolie hat has 4 [8] positions. And, as the 190 has 3 flaps functions, the china hat can not handle this (apart from using a shift function). So, i decided to choose the coolie hat. But, it's up to you and your liking. :thumbup:

MY WH Profiles are not a 'set it and forget it'. If something isn't practical, i'm trying to find a better solution.

greez mugen

I use the slider for flaps in both the BF-109 and the P-51. In the P-51 it works great as the axis adjusts the full range of the flaps. In the BF-109 however, the axis responds only to down, middle and up so if you wanna lower the flaps 10°, you move the slider down for a second or 2 and the center it again.

BUT...

 

Suppose I want to map the 109 type flap to the "FLAP" switch on the WH (the one that's meant to be a FLAP switch by default). That switch does a great job for a plane that has discrete stop points like the 190 because the forward position can be "retracted, middle can be TO Flaps and back position can be "retracts" (3 discrete steps)... SO... How does one overcome the issue that this switch stays in a given position for a plane like the 109... What happens then is that the flaps would indefinitely move to a retracted or extended position depending on the switch and the WH would continue getting the key command to extend or retract indefinitely... That would seem problematic...

 

Am I missing something here?

Well, I simply put the switch in the up or down position as needed, check the flaps position and switch it back to the centre position when the flaps are positioned as I want them.

Not very hard when you get used to it?

As for the key continuously sending the command, I have not experienced any issues when I left the key in either up or down position and forgot to move it back.

As the Bf-109 has a handwheel for deploying flaps, you only really need an up and a down command. For flaps up I use the forward position of the flaps switch on the HOTAS, and for flaps down - guess what? Exactly, the rear position. The central position is neutral.

Very simple, and also very effective.

I use the flaps switch on the WH Hotas throttle for all planes. Else I would get confused. I also like to stick with reality (except I cheat using labels). The Bf-109 pilot did not have a 3-position switch for his flaps but a handwheel. And he had to look out at the wing to see how far the flap was extended. The German WW2 birds were not designed for pilot comfort.

On the FW-190 I use the flap switch for fully up/down and the EAC switch for take-off position (if at all needed).

I use the slider for flaps in both the BF-109 and the P-51. In the P-51 it works great as the axis adjusts the full range of the flaps. In the BF-109 however, the axis responds only to down, middle and up so if you wanna lower the flaps 10°, you move the slider down for a second or 2 and the center it again.

Yeah, the slider is another switch I'm considering... For a plane like the 109, the slider can give a great visual indication of where the flaps are... All the way forward is retracted, and all the way down is extended... full throw on the slider = full throw on the flaps... For 190 it's a little uglier as there will be a "range" can be programmed into the axis so that top 33% (or whatever amount) becomes "retracted", middle 33% is TO flaps, and bottom 33% is extended...

Well, I simply put the switch in the up or down position as needed, check the flaps position and switch it back to the centre position when the flaps are positioned as I want them.

Not very hard when you get used to it?

 

As for the key continuously sending the command, I have not experienced any issues when I left the key in either up or down position and forgot to move it back.

Thanks for commenting... Yeah, this was a considered method but I went another route based on your allusion to the potential issue... Unless the sim automatically stops the command to retract or extend (when it gets to the "stops"), then you are pounding the sim with a stream of commands via your WH which may cause issues (if you forget to stop)... Not sure how the sim interprets an "extend" or "retract" command when the wheel reaches the mechanical stops... Anyone know?

As the Bf-109 has a handwheel for deploying flaps, you only really need an up and a down command. For flaps up I use the forward position of the flaps switch on the HOTAS, and for flaps down - guess what? Exactly, the rear position. The central position is neutral.

 

Very simple, and also very effective.

See previous post. How are you "stopping" the up/down command once the wheel gets to the stop. I'd like it to stop automatically... Maybe the sim already does this... And... how do you get variable flaps positions for various TO/landing/combat flaps positions... I'd like to maintain the infinite variability of the 109 flap...

I use the flaps switch on the WH Hotas throttle for all planes. Else I would get confused. I also like to stick with reality (except I cheat using labels). The Bf-109 pilot did not have a 3-position switch for his flaps but a handwheel. And he had to look out at the wing to see how far the flap was extended. The German WW2 birds were not designed for pilot comfort.

On the FW-190 I use the flap switch for fully up/down and the EAC switch for take-off position (if at all needed).

Agree with your rationale on the 109 aside from 2 things: 1) the handwheel would not continue to crank indefinitely... perhaps the sim terminates the flaps command from the WH once the crank reaches the stops (see posts above)... 2) The pilot could stop the crank at any point for infinitely variable control.

For 190, AFAIK, you should be able to set the switch to 3 discrete positions: retracted, TO, and landing... No need to divide out your EAC switch for TO...

 

See previous post. How are you "stopping" the up/down command once the wheel gets to the stop. I'd like it to stop automatically... Maybe the sim already does this... And... how do you get variable flaps positions for various TO/landing/combat flaps positions... I'd like to maintain the infinite variability of the 109 flap...

 

Agree with your rationale on the 109 aside from 2 things: 1) the handwheel would not continue to crank indefinitely... perhaps the sim terminates the flaps command from the WH once the crank reaches the stops (see posts above)... 2) The pilot could stop the crank at any point for infinitely variable control.

 

For 190, AFAIK, you should be able to set the switch to 3 discrete positions: retracted, TO, and landing... No need to divide out your EAC switch for TO...

I just wait for the flaps to reach their limit, and manually return the switch to the centre position as a matter of routine. However, even if you leave the switch aft, or forwards, when the flaps are fully up or down, the wheel stops.

The Fw-190 D9 is simple enough to set up. There is a mod which modifies the inputs, so you can get the 3 position flaps switch to work as it is meant to.

Forwards - Flaps up

Centre - Take off Flaps set

Rear - Landing flaps set

Here is a link that contains the mod for the Fw-190. You may find some of the other mods there useful too.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138953

Agree with your rationale on the 109 aside from 2 things: 1) the handwheel would not continue to crank indefinitely... perhaps the sim terminates the flaps command from the WH once the crank reaches the stops (see posts above)... 2) The pilot could stop the crank at any point for infinitely variable control.

For 190, AFAIK, you should be able to set the switch to 3 discrete positions: retracted, TO, and landing... No need to divide out your EAC switch for TO...

The problem you are alluding to only occurs when you use TARGET software which emulates keyboard strokes and if a button is used in "Hold" mode it keeps peppering and saturating the input buffer, preventing any other key from working. While I used TARGET software I experienced this and learned quickly to to move the switch back to center. But I have stopped using TARGET because it crashes when I start DCS with TrackIR running. If you use the HW HOTAS without TARGET there is no permanent sequence of input signals.

Wrong wrong wrong!

You are telling me it isn't as easy to flick a switch back to neutral as it is to stop turning a bloody great wheel?

I don't use target, but I have the 3 position switch in my Fw-190 - go figure!

As the Bf-109 has a handwheel for deploying flaps, you only really need an up and a down command. For flaps up I use the forward position of the flaps switch on the HOTAS, and for flaps down - guess what? Exactly, the rear position. The central position is neutral.

 

Very simple, and also very effective.

And with the advantage that you don't need hold a momentary switch/HAT for the "long" time needed to turn the Bf 109 flaps wheel for all down position. Just set the movement direction and leave. :thumbup:

I used TARGET GUI and now I learning TARGET Script Editor, here the code I use:

//
//Taxiing - Landing
//
//Flaps

MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPU,PULSE+'0',PULSE+'0',L_CTL+'f');

MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPD, PULSE+'0',PULSE+'0',L_SHIFT+'f');

I use Shift Button "/D" during Taxiing - Take Off and Landing procedures. This way I am able to use the other positions for other secondary bindings.For instance cockpit illumination:

//Flaps (D) and  cockpit illumination (U and M)

MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPU,
L_SHIFT+'n',
R_SHIFT+'n',
L_CTL+'f');

MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPD,
L_CTL+'n',
R_CTL+'n',
L_SHIFT+'f');

I just wait for the flaps to reach their limit, and manually return the switch to the centre position as a matter of routine. However, even if you leave the switch aft, or forwards, when the flaps are fully up or down, the wheel stops.

 

The Fw-190 D9 is simple enough to set up. There is a mod which modifies the inputs, so you can get the 3 position flaps switch to work as it is meant to.

 

Forwards - Flaps up

Centre - Take off Flaps set

Rear - Landing flaps set

 

Here is a link that contains the mod for the Fw-190. You may find some of the other mods there useful too.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138953

Thanks for the link. Yes, making movement of the flap switch to the center can become "routine" but is pretty clumsy... And you lose the visual reference of where the flaps are positioned based on the switch position (arguably a "nice to have", but not necessary)... The biggest issue is the command being sent repeatedly to the WH long after the flaps are full up/down IF you forget to "terminate" the automatic flap movement. Target works fine for me and I like the GUI so I will intend to keep it...

Wrong wrong wrong!

 

You are telling me it isn't as easy to flick a switch back to neutral as it is to stop turning a bloody great wheel?

 

I don't use target, but I have the 3 position switch in my Fw-190 - go figure!

Yeah repeating from above... making movement of the flap switch to the center can become "routine" but is pretty clumsy... To each his own I guess...

And with the advantage that you don't need hold a momentary switch/HAT for the "long" time needed to turn the Bf 109 flaps wheel for all down position. Just set the movement direction and leave. :thumbup:

But... Then you only have limited flap positions instead of the infinite amount the 109 allows by design!

I used TARGET GUI and now I learning TARGET Script Editor, here the code I use:

 

//
//Taxiing - Landing
//
//Flaps
   
MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPU,PULSE+'0',PULSE+'0',L_CTL+'f');

MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPD, PULSE+'0',PULSE+'0',L_SHIFT+'f');

I use Shift Button "/D" during Taxiing - Take Off and Landing procedures. This way I am able to use the other positions for other secondary bindings.For instance cockpit illumination:

 

//Flaps (D) and  cockpit illumination (U and M)
   
MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPU,
L_SHIFT+'n',
R_SHIFT+'n',
L_CTL+'f');

MapKeyUMD(&Throttle,FLAPD,
L_CTL+'n',
R_CTL+'n',
L_SHIFT+'f');

Thanks... I'll need to study a bit to fully grasp the script. Thanks for posting... Appreciated.

I simply use the three-way flaps switch to the left of the throttles.

 

Upper position for up, lower for down.

 

For the 190 lower position is take off flaps while the EAC switch under it is for landing flaps.

 

Like mugen I try to keep same switches through the modules, for me it is just the flaps switch in this case. :)

what I use as well. :thumbup:

Thanks... I'll need to study a bit to fully grasp the script. Thanks for posting... Appreciated.

Welcome!:)

You can have the same results with GUI, no need to use script editor.