Tips on Defensive BFM - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-11-2019, 04:24 AM   #1
The AMRAAMer
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 78
Default Tips on Defensive BFM

Do you guys have any tips for defensive BFM? If someones on my 6 what can I do to get them off?
The AMRAAMer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 08:40 AM   #2
draconus
Senior Member
 
draconus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Poland
Posts: 1,172
Default

Who vs who? If you're light and have the power try to go vertical. Try to get him into flat scissors or other fast direction changes - he may overshoot you.
__________________
G4560/16GB/GTX970/SSD, 22"FullHD, HOTAS X, customTiR
NTTR, FC3, F-14B
draconus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 09:32 AM   #3
uzver
Junior Member
 
uzver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 85
Default

Today or tomorrow i'll give you detailed answer about that
__________________
Тот, кто учится не размышляя, впадет в заблуждение. Тот, кто размышляет, не желая учиться, окажется в затруднении
uzver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 10:45 AM   #4
uzver
Junior Member
 
uzver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 85
Default

There is a plenty of them but basically they are one of 4 types.

1. Make enemy to overpass you

2. Make enemy to "land in a hard way"(hardest and favorite)

3. Fly away from enemy

4. Slowly get your advantage back in tens of loops\turns, and, at the same time, avoiding from enemy shooting



"Make enemy to overpass you"

It is about of decreasing distance between you and enemy and then make some high G turn when he is close enough(less than 800m). And when i'm saying "High G turn", i mean that you should pull above "destructive overloads". For Su27 it's >11G. And keep in mind, the less weight plane have, the more G it can handle without losing wings. You should do this with stick "deflection limiter override" button(don't know how to name it correct in eng), because limiter won't allow you to pull more than 9G.

You should watch for your enemy when doing this maneuver, because it's easy to counterattack your attempt by doing high yo-yo. At that moment you should go up too. Otherwise, enemy will be at better speed, higher alt and close distance = you're dead.

After this maneuver, you'll have high chance for low-speed horizontal or vertical scissors. In scissors, rudder give you significant more controls than flaperons, so you should use pedals in deflection limiter override mode. To see how "deflection limiter" works - use rctrl + enter, but i recommend to use axis indication all the time.

If you'll do it right it is a hardest one. I'll explain it and describe mistakes.

0. You should start it suddenly.

1. You should always look at enemy.
1.1 If enemy overpass you and you won't see it, than he'll have high chance to get back on your six.
1.2 If enemy counterattack your move and you won't see it - soon, you'll be dead

2. You should be at low altitude and you should control position of your plane when you're looking at your six.
2.1 If you won't control alt - you will kiss the ground or get at high pitch angle, lose speed and dead.
2.2 If you won't control speed - enemy will have chances to hit you. You should be >1000km\h. But you shouldn't go too fast too, because you'll waste a lot of fuel and time before you get acceptable distance between you and enemy.

3. You should do small moves to prevent enemy shooting.
3.1 If you won't = dead
3.2 If you won't control overloads - you have chance to start defense maneuver when your pilot can't handle overloads anymore. So be in 3-5G range.
3.3 If you'll do this moves at high AOA and G - will lose too much speed = dead

4. You should have "accurate eye" to approximately understand speed of your enemy and distance to him.
4.1 If you'll start maneuver too soon(or at big distance) - enemy will have a lot of time to decrease speed and stay at six.
4.2 If you'll start maneuver too late(or at very small distance) - enemy, probably, will make you dead before you start maneuver.

5. You should do maneuver at overloads that are very close to destroy your plane.
5.1 If you won't - enemy have high chance to stay at six.
5.2 But if you'll do it - high chance to lose your wings. So you should find balance here.

6. You should be ready to "counterattack" enemy attempts to stay on your six.
6.1 If you won't - enemy can get even more advantage than he had on your six.

7. You should understand scissors and know how to achieve best maneuverability at speeds less than 300km\h

I will add information over time

P.S. Maybe i'll add some video examples. But 95% of online totally can't dogfight, and those who know how to dogfight better then me - hiding
P.P.S. This is very sad situation with dogfights. My dogfight skill is 3\5. And i can't find anyone better for a week of active searching. And what i can say for those who have 4\5 or 5\5 skill... they just leave game...
Maybe we need to find some solution to arrange fights, because without, it's just wasting of time. I'm enter server, wasting time with weak enemies, even try to teach them at least something, but no one cares. Yeah... very sad. Mb i should make one more try to arrange this chaos.
__________________
Тот, кто учится не размышляя, впадет в заблуждение. Тот, кто размышляет, не желая учиться, окажется в затруднении

Last edited by uzver; 06-11-2019 at 02:59 PM. Reason: P.S.
uzver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 04:28 PM   #5
GGTharos
Veteran
 
GGTharos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 30,075
Default

There are manuals written that describe defensive BFM. They are not written by the community (mostly), and they're not written by Robert Shaw. Find them

You might need to add a few touches to those game-plans but, consider that if the opponent is saddled up and competent, the best you can do is delay the inevitable. If the opponent is not saddled up, there are things you could potentially accomplish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The AMRAAMer View Post
Do you guys have any tips for defensive BFM? If someones on my 6 what can I do to get them off?
__________________

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 04:38 PM   #6
The AMRAAMer
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
consider that if the opponent is saddled up and competent, the best you can do is delay the inevitable. If the opponent is not saddled up, there are things you could potentially accomplish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzver View Post
Today or tomorrow i'll give you detailed answer about that
Watchung The Art of the Kill, Pete Bonani says all you can do in defensive BFM is keep jinking and buying yourself time in the hopes that the other guy makes a mistake or someone else comes to help
The AMRAAMer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 04:46 PM   #7
uzver
Junior Member
 
uzver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 85
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The AMRAAMer View Post
Watchung The Art of the Kill, Pete Bonani says all you can do in defensive BFM is keep jinking and buying yourself time in the hopes that the other guy makes a mistake or someone else comes to help
Ofc nothing can guarantee to kick off enemy from your six. But, at least, it's better to try than eject and restart) In my practice, i kicked off from six even "4\5" players, so don't give up)

UPD. And don't forget that in game we pull more Gs than in real life. And our pilot don't afraid to go to sleep) So we can do crazy things which books don't describe)
__________________
Тот, кто учится не размышляя, впадет в заблуждение. Тот, кто размышляет, не желая учиться, окажется в затруднении

Last edited by uzver; 06-11-2019 at 04:51 PM.
uzver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 06:42 PM   #8
GGTharos
Veteran
 
GGTharos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 30,075
Default

That's not entirely correct. If the bandit's saddled up, pretty much. But the trick is to get him to make a mistake, and there's no magic here - by 'making him make a mistake', it really means that you have to fly good defensive BFM and set him so that he gets to or preferably in front of your 3-9 line, or you get to a point where you can escape.

For this to happen, he has to make a mistake. The vast majority of online pilots will run around at 500kts+ so making them overshoot isn't necessarily hard.

When they're NOT behaving like this, you need to be on top of your BFM even more, and there are no 'tips' for this. There are game plans, and you'll just have to think about it and make your own ... art of the kill is not adequate. You need other sources - like I said, actual BFM instruction. I'm not going to give you any, just we're clear, just leading horse to water

Quote:
Originally Posted by The AMRAAMer View Post
Watchung The Art of the Kill, Pete Bonani says all you can do in defensive BFM is keep jinking and buying yourself time in the hopes that the other guy makes a mistake or someone else comes to help
__________________

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 09:38 AM   #9
uzver
Junior Member
 
uzver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 85
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
I'm not going to give you any, just we're clear, just leading horse to water
I thought about that. Yeah. I agree with GGTharos, you should learn it by yourself, as i do. And do it with 10% of theory and 90% of practice. Key is experimenting and analyzing. I gave you an example and few basic types of defense. So you should figure it out by yourself.

One more. Never play a lot of fights with weak enemies. They kills your skill. It's good feeling when you win all the time, but trust me, it's don't worth it. I checked on idea, and it was correct one) 90% of tough players flying in beta.
__________________
Тот, кто учится не размышляя, впадет в заблуждение. Тот, кто размышляет, не желая учиться, окажется в затруднении
uzver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 10:49 AM   #10
draconus
Senior Member
 
draconus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Poland
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzver View Post
P.P.S. This is very sad situation with dogfights. My dogfight skill is 3\5. And i can't find anyone better for a week of active searching. And what i can say for those who have 4\5 or 5\5 skill... they just leave game...
Join some VS if you have trouble finding good opponents, although I would think there are plenty of players available, jusk ask on the servers, at VSs like 51st, 59th, 104th just to name a few.
__________________
G4560/16GB/GTX970/SSD, 22"FullHD, HOTAS X, customTiR
NTTR, FC3, F-14B
draconus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:07 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.