Mouse pointer and head movement in VR

Just realised, would it not be possible to "untie" the mouse pointer in the config file?

Anybody here understand the file enough to investigate this option?

Jay

Helloooo.. one line from ED would really make a difference!

Many people are frustrated with your mouse integration.

DO YOU NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR FAN BASE ??

It's been six weeks since I posted this thread.

All I'm asking is a simple damn statement on the state of this issue.

Yes, No, Maybe..

Are you seriously so ignorant to your users or you still gonna pretend that nobodys home??

Yes please, can we have the option of unbinding the mouse cursor from head movement? It's really annoying having to keep your head still while hitting buttons i.e. like the UFC rocker switches and trying to look at the HUD menu.

This is so pathetic...

You've lost my money right here ED.

I'll enjoy the thing for what it is but I ain't buying any more dlc's.

I would much rather invest in a platform that actually appreciate and enjoy its audience.

Good luck!

This is so pathetic...

 

You've lost my money right here ED.

I'll enjoy the thing for what it is but I ain't buying any more dlc's.

I would much rather invest in a platform that actually appreciate and enjoy its audience.

 

Good luck!

You do realize that you're posting in the WISHLIST thread, right? I get that you want a reply, but what are they going to say other than "we'll look into it" I want them to make more progress with VR performance over mouse usage. I want them to bring Vulkan to the table sooner over this issue.

Yes, I want them to make the mouse more usable. But to say that they don't appreciate their customers seems hyperbolic. But then again, that's the social media driven, over the top, everything is a OUTRAGE world that we live in I guess.

You do realize that you're posting in the WISHLIST thread, right? I get that you want a reply, but what are they going to say other than "we'll look into it" I want them to make more progress with VR performance over mouse usage. I want them to bring Vulkan to the table sooner over this issue.

 

Yes, I want them to make the mouse more usable. But to say that they don't appreciate their customers seems hyperbolic. But then again, that's the social media driven, over the top, everything is a OUTRAGE world that we live in I guess.

+1

We all have our one thing that we really want to see implemented or fixed. I have always wanted a save game option, to the point where I once swore not to spend any more money on DCS until it came. Then 2.5 came out, and the PG map, and the Hornet, and the F14... I’ve just come to realize that we all can’t have our one thing always be at the top of the list, because we all want different things.

Do I want a fix to the mouse issue? Yes, though I’ve largely mitigated it by using touch controllers, now that they are implemented (no doubt someone else’s “thing” at some point too). Do I still want a save game? Absolutely. But there is just too much good in this whole ecosystem to quit over one “thing” that may be annoying but ultimately isn’t a deal breaker.

Hmmm...i'll have to keep that touch controllers thing in mind-never know where you're gonna find a solution to a problem...

+1

 

We all have our one thing that we really want to see implemented or fixed. I have always wanted a save game option, to the point where I once swore not to spend any more money on DCS until it came. Then 2.5 came out, and the PG map, and the Hornet, and the F14... I’ve just come to realize that we all can’t have our one thing always be at the top of the list, because we all want different things.

 

Do I want a fix to the mouse issue? Yes, though I’ve largely mitigated it by using touch controllers, now that they are implemented (no doubt someone else’s “thing” at some point too). Do I still want a save game? Absolutely. But there is just too much good in this whole ecosystem to quit over one “thing” that may be annoying but ultimately isn’t a deal breaker.

Does the Touch controller take control completely away from your head tracking, or can you still screw with it by moving your head? If it's the former, I assume my Vive wands would do the same (?).

I'd rather be using the mouse, but that would be fine if it did away with the conflicting controls...

The problem with using a touch controller is that they are large, and get in the way of using flight controllers, such as joysticks and throttles. Plus, it can be problematic to grip them again, once you have let them go.

The advantage is, that they can build a unit with the HMD and a virtual body connecting them all together. Imagine, for demonstration purposes, you are wearing the HMD, and two touch controllers, and standing in your playing area with your arms outstretched to the side at shoulder height.

Your virtual program can understand there to be a virtual body, with virtual arms and legs between the HMD and the touch controllers. If you turn your head to look to the left to look at your left virtual hand (your left hand, holding the left touch controller), your virtual hands remain stationary relative to the virtual world, although in turning your head, your view of the virtual world slews off to the right within the virtual world so that you are looking at your left virtual hand, while your right virtual hand has moved off to behind your viewing window into the virtual world. Relative to the virtual world, neither of your hands has moved.

This is the way we need to work within the virtual cockpit, but without touch controllers. Simply have a virtual hand be controlled through the mouse. If you don't move the mouse, the virtual hand remains stationary within the virtual world.

Some say that VR-gloves will be the solution, but there are major issues with using VR-gloves, aside from the fact that they are hella expensive! The problems start with having a joystick and throttle within your playing area, which you need to operate in the real-world. Depending on your setup, they can block your access to areas in the virtual cockpit. The same goes for desktops, chair armrests, and anything else in the real world, which might occupy a vital space within the virtual world. Either you synchronize the positions of virtual and real-world control sticks and throttles, which cannot always be possible (what if you change aircraft and control stick and throttle in the new aircraft have different positions?).

No, touch controllers do not play well with real world objects, which is why every VR system tells you to clear out a playing area off all obstacles before even putting on your HMD.

I would love to see this implemented so that the mouse cursor could be "free" from head movement

the more you use the mouse the less of an issue this is.

18 months ago when I got VR I agreed with the op about the mouse.

 

but 18 months later I now use the mouse for nearly everything.

I actually use the cockpit buttons more than my hotas.

and more than I did with trackIR.

 

so im actually finally getting my monies worth out of clickable cockpits.

 

i would like to try the option of moving the mouse only with the mouse or the head. to see what its like, but its not a game changer anymore, for me.

 

i found trying to do it with a touch controller even more alien than using a mouse.

I'm with you on this. I prefer to move the mouse cursor (w/ trackball) rather than try to point my head at the switch or button. This way I can use my peripheral vision to see the switch and click it like I would do IRL. Otherwise, for some of the switches way at the back of the console or way down by my thighs, I have to crank my head to be able to point directly at it. It's not only extremely awkward, but not how you would do it in the real cockpit. Its also faster than trying to move your head to each button when entering something on the UFC keypad.

YMMV

I think the issue is that if the mouse pointer was disconnected from your head, you’d lose it in the cockpit.

Not if you set the scroll wheel click to dead center the pointer where you're looking.

If there is anything in DCS which has bugged me from the start 5 years ago and still bugs me just as much, it's having the mouse pointer fly around the cockpit because I've turned my head. The lazy stupidity of this solution gives me violent thoughts every time.

Just the other day while flying online I was desperately trying to quickly change some switch settings in my cockpit and fighting with the combination of head and hand movement. I'm not a f*cking world class acrobat nor one of the Avengers. I'm just some 60 year old smuck trying to enjoy himself and asking himself why doesn't ED simply fix this situation. WHY ED?! Any solution is better than none!

I believe this can be done, not sure how this would affect the sim on ED's side?

 

https://forums.oculusvr.com/developer/discussion/2432/seperating-head-and-mouse-movement

 

Quote

"The problem is the camera moves the mouse. E.g. if the mouse pointer is center screen and I turn my head the mouse pointer stays center screen. I want it to stay where it would have been in 3d space.

 

It seams that the Oculus head movement maps to the "Mouse X" and "Mouse Y" inputs in unity, so when I turn my head the mouse inputs have value. Sadly I can't find anyway to change this."

 

"Figured it out.

 

I set the Oculus Cameras to not be "Main" then created another camera that is just "Main" Apparently the mouse input is driven by the Main camera rotation."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where you left it in the 3D space, once you move the mouse.

Do you mean that you managed to solve the problem?

Where did you set those cameras, in an oculus software?

I would love to be able to dissociate head and mouse tracking, it's quite annoying to have to keep your head absolutely still while clicking.

If someone has a solution, even a complex one, I am listening.

Cheers

The problem with using a touch controller is that they are large, and get in the way of using flight controllers, such as joysticks and throttles. Plus, it can be problematic to grip them again, once you have let them go.

So you don't have these problems with the mouse? My Touch controllers don't really need more space than my mouse and that's a rather small Anywhere 2 MX. Well, it's good to have Oculus here... wouldn't want to have those Vive Wand clubs or the rather uncomfortable WMR thingies.

And grabbing the controllers is even easier since you can see your hands in the 'pit. Although I'd prefer the hands to fade away after a while to boost immersion since mine usually are outside of the cockpit due to where I put the controllers (RH in front of my mouse pad and LH just left of my TMWH throttle)... the only real problem is you might hit your other devices with the controllers when trying to grab some knobs and switches, but that's what the "grip key aiming laser" is there for. So you're basically directing your "mouse pointer" with that controller, with the pro that you always instantly know where it is. Constantly having to look for that damn mouse cursor before being able to actually use it sucked big time in pancake mode already ("Hello green tiny little cross hiding in front of a green DDI with direct sunlight to it!") and got even worse in VR with the thing hiding somewhere in the off.

If you don't lose your mouse pointer in the menus or on your desktop, you wouldn't lose it in the cockpit.

I live with it for now but this feature is definitely needed. When I have my head down to adjust something, I'm hesitant to lift my head to glance the HUD because I'd lose what I was clicking and have to find it again. I often find my plane drifting while changing channels so I either have to put it on autopilot or if I was turning, I have to active pause.

If HMD and mouse was separate like in the menus, even while I'm clicking a button or changing channels, I can glance up and look back down and the pointer would be where it was.

I would love to see this implemented so that the mouse cursor could be "free" from head movement

Please do this. Just like the menus. Would be awesome a option to select this

Would the implementation of this require I use a mouse for cockpit control with my HMD? I have mouse buttons mapped to my controller so I just look at the switch or button I need to use. I don't want to loose that ability.

So you don't have these problems with the mouse? My Touch controllers don't really need more space than my mouse and that's a rather small Anywhere 2 MX. Well, it's good to have Oculus here... wouldn't want to have those Vive Wand clubs or the rather uncomfortable WMR thingies.

And grabbing the controllers is even easier since you can see your hands in the 'pit. Although I'd prefer the hands to fade away after a while to boost immersion since mine usually are outside of the cockpit due to where I put the controllers (RH in front of my mouse pad and LH just left of my TMWH throttle)... the only real problem is you might hit your other devices with the controllers when trying to grab some knobs and switches, but that's what the "grip key aiming laser" is there for. So you're basically directing your "mouse pointer" with that controller, with the pro that you always instantly know where it is. Constantly having to look for that damn mouse cursor before being able to actually use it sucked big time in pancake mode already ("Hello green tiny little cross hiding in front of a green DDI with direct sunlight to it!") and got even worse in VR with the thing hiding somewhere in the off.

The touch controllers are big, and bulky, and role around. Put them down, and they are never oriented to be gripped. You must alway turn them into position.

My mouse is normal sized, always right-side-up, always right where I left it, because it never roles away.

What is the advantage of touch over mouse? None of which I know; only disadvantages. Plus I hate the hover-hands way of working them.

Know why optical keyboards never caught on? (optical keyboards = projector and camera [very small and easy to carry and setup, far easier to carry than any physical keyboard]: keyboard image is projected onto a surface, camera to view where you touched on the keyboard projection to actuate a keypress) Because people don't like to hold their hands in the air, and have no physical reference, nor support for resting their hands. Try it for 10 minutes, see how your arms feel.

On top of that, touch controllers lead you to believe your hands are actually in the cockpit. They are not. There are things around you, which you cannot see. Oculus and the other companies went to great lengths to protect you from walking into or hitting things in the real world, which you cannot see, with your hands . Maybe with enough care and practice you might overcome the urge to reach for a switch or dial which would have you putting your hand through a real-world physical object... maybe. I'd rather not deal with it.

Ultimately, I don't want a mouse pointer at all. No one needs a mouse pointer for anything. You need and indicator of which switch or dial you are working in the cockpit. That can be done by putting a highlighted box around the switch or dial. Moving the mouse moves the highlighting from one switch to the next. Very simple, very easy to use, practically impossible to lose.

To make it even more realistic and easier to use, once you haven't sued the mouse for 10-15 seconds, or maybe simply move it to the joystick or throttle, it's off and no highlighting is visible. Start to move your mouse and highlighting comes back on, but always starting at the stick or throttle, maybe depending on in which direction you move the mouse - move to the left and you start with the throttle, emulating you using your throttle hand, move to the right to emulate moving your stick hand, or maybe a completely different mechanism. These are just thoughts, but there are so many different ways to make things easier for the virtual pilot in the VR cockpit. They just have to be implemented and not ignored.

Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but having the mouse tracking to my head movement in VR is maddening.  I had a Rift S for a short time and don't remember this being an issue, but now that I have a G2 it is driving me mad.  Can the devs please fix this!

I'm taking also back this topic. Is it at least possible to have a dead zone in the center of the FOV where the cursor would not follow head movements?

X-Plane does it perfectly...
MSFS does it perfectly...
AFS does it perfectly...

C'mon ED !!!!

New VR user here.. i have been using trackir for a long time and it kinda worked, but this issue in VR is MUCH worse.. Barely useable to click stuff when the mouse is attached to the head

Hello ED? Anybody out there? This is a major issue!