HUD bug(s) since launch, all related to FPM & Pitch ladder.

This has been reported a few times before by me and others. The pitch ladder in-game is fixed at center, which is not accurate, while in reality it should be centered on the FPM (Flight Path Marker). The FPM itself has a limit on the HUD's bottom border (I don't know about the other borders) and doesn't simply disappear when it goes off limit. Here's a good video reference as to where exactly is this limit on the HUD:

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One other thing is the acceleration/deceleration carets. They don't have a limit as to how far they go away from the FPM, up or down, according to a video like this (and many others):

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Make sure you watch the whole video and notice the behaviour of the accel/decel carets.

In all these videos you can also notice how the pitch ladder is centered upon the FPM.

Making crosswind landings when Pitch ladder is centered to FPM would be much easier then

Hey guys I think I've got this fixed just trying to fix one additional thing I noticed but it's much better than the dancing pitch ladder from before

Great news! :thumbup:

Hey guys I think I've got this fixed just trying to fix one additional thing I noticed but it's much better than the dancing pitch ladder from before.

 

EDIT: Fixes from watching the two videos...

- Fixed pitch ladder behavior

- Fixed FPM bound limits to be more correct (and by association the pitch ladder)

- Fixed acceleration caret scaling/limiting

- Fixed odd horizon line movement when doing quick maneuvers (this was the most annoying to me)

 

I'll keep reviewing the video but in general I think it's pretty close :) hopefully will be in the next update for you guys.

That's very good news. If you want more videos to look at just let me know, I know of a few more. They include some dogfights as well if you'd like to confirm/fix any other symbologies or behaviours. Some over the Aegean and others were training.

another point is the visability of the Data on the HUD, the opacity is like 100%... but it should be like a flickering display :)

another point is the visability of the Data on the HUD, the opacity is like 100%... but it should be like a flickering display :)

Bro ... :p

Smiley have you seen sedenion work for VTH it looks really identical to the videos on youtube

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170566

Any thoughts of maybe using this because imho it looks really good

And while we're on the topic of the HUD stuff can someone tell how exactly does the AP heading indicator in the hud works?

It's always on the left side of the HUD for me for some reason

And while we're on the topic of the HUD stuff can someone tell how exactly does the AP heading indicator in the hud works?

It's always on the left side of the HUD for me for some reason

 

That is the route marker. It shows the aircraft's magnetic or true ground track.

It is non-functional at this time because how it works was in doubt.

It will be functional in the next update, not tomorrow's.

Wow, nice changes, Razbam!

That is the route marker. It shows the aircraft's magnetic or true ground track.

It is non-functional at this time because how it works was in doubt.

It will be functional in the next update, not tomorrow's.

Cool thanks

Smiley have you seen sedenion work for VTH it looks really identical to the videos on youtube

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170566

 

Any thoughts of maybe using this because imho it looks really good

 

And while we're on the topic of the HUD stuff can someone tell how exactly does the AP heading indicator in the hud works?

It's always on the left side of the HUD for me for some reason

 

+1, and thank you Cpt.Smiley for the fixes. :thumbup:

Here's a more up to date video I just found to confirm the FPM border limit: (watch on youtube, embedded version won't work for some reason)

[ame]

Update:

The FPM's limit in the upper HUD can be confirmed at 05:35 minutes mark in the first video of the first post. You can see it's just above the heading tape.

I had a look on the Mirage in DCS yesterday and if I remember right the upper limit in game was right on the heading tape. If that's the case then I think it should be like in the video, a little distance above the tape.

Thank you Smiley. The HUD should be almost perfect, now to sit and wait for the update :).

New HUD with VV referenced to the pitch ladder is great. However the ILS presentation is still bugged in that the Azimuth (localiser) line on the HUD still behaves erratically. As you apply a roll correction the Azimuth line and its Anchor point mark on the horizon line moves (darts) in the same direction as roll. should it not always be positioned in azimuth to indicate a Fly To direction to the ILS localiser ? in effect its unusable see attached Track. this with Ver 2.03.5945

ILsbugtrk.zip

Hey again, I've seen the last update and it looks awesome! However a little fine tuning to the changes could be made. Not to sound picky but I care for as much realism as possible.

The bottom border of the FPM in the first vid is a little bit below what is currently modeled (in 1.5 at least, haven't opened 2.0 yet). To make it easy, the FPM's limit is about on the base of the pitot tube, also confirmed by the video from post #14, if the point of view from the HUD doesn't make a difference for the symbologies' positions in relation to other objects, which I believe it doesn't... make a difference :P.

Another easy reference is that the limit is some distance below the inverted T, as you can notice from the video the FPM stops right about the video's very bottom border.. comparing this fixed position with the inverted T from takeoff you can get the exact position.

Also in DCS after the update, the pitch ladder in app mode "loses" its interconnection with the FPM when it goes near its limits. Otherwise as far as I have experienced the pitch ladder behaviour is spot on! Cheers and nice work on this module guys :)

Edit: The current FPM in DCS stops right on top of the inverted T iirc.

Edit2: I just noticed that in-game in approach mode, the FPM has its limit like where it is in the video, the pitch ladder in this mode still "remembers" its limit from normal NAV mode. I guess you don't have to do anything about this matter except make the FPM have the same limit in app in every other mode and update the pitch ladder to match it, I guess.

Hey again, I've seen the last update and it looks awesome! However a little fine tuning to the changes could be made. Not to sound picky but I care for as much realism as possible.

 

The bottom border of the FPM in the first vid is a little bit below what is currently modeled (in 1.5 at least, haven't opened 2.0 yet). To make it easy, the FPM's limit is about on the base of the pitot tube, also confirmed by the video from post #14, if the point of view from the HUD doesn't make a difference for the symbologies' positions in relation to other objects, which I believe it doesn't... make a difference :P.

 

Another easy reference is that the limit is some distance below the inverted T, as you can notice from the video the FPM stops right about the video's very bottom border.. comparing this fixed position with the inverted T from takeoff you can get the exact position.

 

Also the pitch ladder in app mode "loses" its interconnection with the FPM when it goes near its limits. Otherwise as far as I have experienced the pitch ladder behaviour is spot on! Cheers and nice work on this module guys :)

 

Edit: The current FPM in DCS stops right on top of the inverted T iirc.

 

Edit2: I just noticed that in approach mode, the FPM has its limit like where it is in the video, the pitch ladder in this mode still "remembers" its limit from normal NAV mode. I guess you don't have to do anything about this matter except make the FPM have the same limit in app in every other mode and update the pitch ladder to match it, I guess.

1- I don't understand what you mean about FPM & pitch ladder position. Screenshots would be better to understand what you mean.

2- Yes the FPM lower limit is near the pitot tube. But to see the pitot tube through the HUD you need to rise the seat (IRL as well, pilots do it for landing).

So I guess the FoV of the gun cam is not exactly the same as from pilot's point of view.

1- I don't understand what you mean about FPM & pitch ladder position. Screenshots would be better to understand what you mean.

The pitch ladder should be centered on the FPM at all times. In game, while in 'approach mode' when the FPM goes to its bottom limits while in a bank they get "disconnected" where the FPM continues to go downwards and the ladder stays at the same limit it had in the normal 'NAV' mode. Remember as I said before, in-game app mode FPM has a more further downwards limit.

2- Yes the FPM lower limit is near the pitot tube. But to see the pitot tube through the HUD you need to rise the seat (IRL as well, pilots do it for landing).

So I guess the FoV of the gun cam is not exactly the same as from pilot's point of view.

The pilot IRL doesn't really need to see the FPM while pulling hard. On the contrary, in a situation like this the pilot could use the extra declutter from such a move.

I don't know how collimated displays look from different perspectives. Does a symbol on the HUD seem at the same place in reference to objects ahead of it to the pilot as it does for the gun cam, or say when the pilot moves forward or to the right? I'm not really sure, someone who has experience with this would have to answer us on that. But in DCS's Mirage symbols do move when changing perspective.

An easy way around that would be to set FPM's limit in game from gun cam's perspective, if possible..

It's even more easier that it still holds true that the FPM's limit is some distance below the inverted T indicator (which is available while on the ground), easily deduced from the video I shared, while in game at the moment the limit is right on top of the inverted T.

New HUD with VV referenced to the pitch ladder is great. However the ILS presentation is still bugged in that the Azimuth (localiser) line on the HUD still behaves erratically. As you apply a roll correction the Azimuth line and its Anchor point mark on the horizon line moves (darts) in the same direction as roll. should it not always be positioned in azimuth to indicate a Fly To direction to the ILS localiser ? in effect its unusable see attached Track. this with Ver 2.03.5945

I also think that the "fly-to" direction in the ILS glideslope "box" is reversed in the horizontal.

The error I described here http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2619123&postcount=2 still exists. I'm gonna explain it here again. As long as the runway has no slope, the horizon line can't be overimposed on the runway (see screenshot). Horizon line should be above the other end of the runway at a height above runway equal to HUD's height above the runway.

Currently, if velocity vector is kept precisely on the horizon line, the altitude will slowly increase. So there are good reasons to believe that horizon line (and most likely also pitch bars) and velocity vector position is inaccurate.

After more than half a year the ELEMENTARY symbology/function on the HUD is still inaccurate.

In a couple of posts up I mentioned the erratic behavior of the ILS HUD localiser line and anchor point. This video is of an A319 ILS approach. It clearly shows the logic of how the Localiser HUD line and its anchor point should behave in the MIIR2K HUD.

The A319 HUD has both the Synthetic runway ILS localiser line and the ILS Anchor point. It differs in that the Pitch ladder is caged to the centre of the HUD rather than the velocity vector To get to the main ILS HUD video start at 9:54.

This is a turn to intercept the localiser.

[ame]

Nice finding, thanks.

In a couple of posts up I mentioned the erratic behavior of the ILS HUD localiser line and anchor point. This video is of an A319 ILS approach. It clearly shows the logic of how the Localiser HUD line and its anchor point should behave in the MIIR2K HUD.

 

The A319 HUD has both the Synthetic runway ILS localiser line and the ILS Anchor point. It differs in that the Pitch ladder is caged to the centre of the HUD rather than the velocity vector To get to the main ILS HUD video start at 9:54.

 

This is a turn to intercept the localiser.

 

 

Thanks for the video.

In a couple of posts up I mentioned the erratic behavior of the ILS HUD localiser line and anchor point. This video is of an A319 ILS approach. It clearly shows the logic of how the Localiser HUD line and its anchor point should behave in the MIIR2K HUD.

 

The A319 HUD has both the Synthetic runway ILS localiser line and the ILS Anchor point. It differs in that the Pitch ladder is caged to the centre of the HUD rather than the velocity vector To get to the main ILS HUD video start at 9:54.

 

This is a turn to intercept the localiser.

 

 

Lovely video. :smartass:

The FPM didn't get linked to the pitch ladder with weight on wheels/on the ground, can you fix that when you have time? Thanks! :thumbup: