Start up

So I was a plane captain for six years and I’ve been watching Matt do the start up and I just saw a YouTube video of the training and I can tell you some of it is wrong. Mostly with the FCS Bit during launch. You don’t do the bit with the flaps in Auto, you start it with Flaps at Half. The only reason why you put the flaps up prior to the bit is for the PC to check Hyd servicing levels. Once Hyds have been checked or filled then it’s flaps to half followed by the Bit. After the Bit is complete then it’s flaps to auto for flight control surface checks (nose up, nose down, roll left, roll right, rudder left, rudder right). Then it’s Flaps to half again for four down, final checks, pitot heat checks, Nose Wheel Well MMP Code checks, and finally four up. Just in case anyone ever wanted to know. I’ve got the procedure seared into my brain for all enterity, thanks Navy lol! I’ve never seen a Bit done during launch with the Flaps in Auto. Phew got that off my chest.

But I am glad to see them turn on the DDI’s and HUD after engine two start up. That’s how I was taught for LPT

Thanks for the insight. Well they got it 99% right then? Not so bad...

Why don’t you address this directly to Wags? I’m sure he’d be interested.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So I was a plane captain for six years and I’ve been watching Matt do the start up and I just saw a YouTube video of the training and I can tell you some of it is wrong. Mostly with the FCS Bit during launch. You don’t do the bit with the flaps in Auto, you start it with Flaps at Half. The only reason why you put the flaps up prior to the bit is for the PC to check Hyd servicing levels. Once Hyds have been checked or filled then it’s flaps to half followed by the Bit. After the Bit is complete then it’s flaps to auto for flight control surface checks (nose up, nose down, roll left, roll right, rudder left, rudder right). Then it’s Flaps to half again for four down, final checks, pitot heat checks, Nose Wheel Well MMP Code checks, and finally four up. Just in case anyone ever wanted to know. I’ve got the procedure seared into my brain for all enterity, thanks Navy lol! I’ve never seen a Bit done during launch with the Flaps in Auto. Phew got that off my chest.

The coco part of the launch and and the fact that you do the ibit on every launch not just in the cold have been the only thing I have really noticed that was a little off. And I think the engines start to fast, but I get why they would speed that up.

What squardon where you in?

Thanks for info AME, it's always interesting to read feedback from real pilots.

And I think the engines start to fast, but I get why they would speed that up.

If the engines start too fast, they should fix it. I don't think ED purposely speed up the engine start so we can join air quakes faster :P

Good topic. :) There are some slight variations in the startup process, also I guess in how it is done around the world. Indeed flaps half is the position where the flaps need not to be at, as they hide the hydraulic quantity indicators. They are checked after engine start to make a note of how much the quantity 'drops' when the system is pressurized as this is indicative of the amount of air trapped in the system.

Thanks for info AME, it's always interesting to read feedback from real pilots.

 

 

 

If the engines start too fast, they should fix it. I don't think ED purposely speed up the engine start so we can join air quakes faster :P

I wont lie. The engines/apu starting is probably the most bothersome part about the startup in game for me. Every time i see a video with it i think that is just not right. i have probably been apart of at least 700 if not more hornet startups as a plane captain. In the US Navy you are giving the same finger movement hand signals the whole time. You tell the pilot to crank engine 1/2 and wiggle your wrists with either one or two fingers(depending on the engine) till the pilot gives the thumbs up that it is at proper idle rpm. it just seems fast in the videos i have seen. that's not even counting when its cold outside where it can add 5 to 10 more seconds.

its a bit nit picky i will admit. but i show my co workers these videos and say how amazing it is (trying to get them to join) and they see things like this. and call it out.

Thanks for info AME, it's always interesting to read feedback from real pilots.

 

 

 

If the engines start too fast, they should fix it. I don't think ED purposely speed up the engine start so we can join air quakes faster :P

Just a small nitpick.. he isn't a pilot is is more along the lines of a crew chief (hopefully that is an apt description).

So I was a plane captain for six years and I’ve been watching Matt do the start up and I just saw a YouTube video of the training and I can tell you some of it is wrong. Mostly with the FCS Bit during launch. You don’t do the bit with the flaps in Auto, you start it with Flaps at Half. The only reason why you put the flaps up prior to the bit is for the PC to check Hyd servicing levels. Once Hyds have been checked or filled then it’s flaps to half followed by the Bit. After the Bit is complete then it’s flaps to auto for flight control surface checks (nose up, nose down, roll left, roll right, rudder left, rudder right). Then it’s Flaps to half again for four down, final checks, pitot heat checks, Nose Wheel Well MMP Code checks, and finally four up. Just in case anyone ever wanted to know. I’ve got the procedure seared into my brain for all enterity, thanks Navy lol! I’ve never seen a Bit done during launch with the Flaps in Auto. Phew got that off my chest.

Thanks for the insight - highly appreciated from a man who knows those babies insight out!!!! Have you worked with lot 20 hornets in our timeframe?

cheers

Just a small nitpick.. he isn't a pilot is is more along the lines of a crew chief (hopefully that is an apt description).

You are correct in the fact that we Plane Captains are the equivalent of AF crew chiefs. Except our job is basically the lowest in the squadron (I was a plane captain at 18, ask a crew chief how old he is) . And we know more about the jets than the pilots

You are correct in the fact that we Plane Captains are the equivalent of AF crew chiefs. Except our job is basically the lowest in the squadron (I was a plane captain at 18, ask a crew chief how old he is) . We know more about the aircraft than anybody. We have 100% control of the aircraft. We decide if it can fly, we inspect it nightly & every time it lands, we fuel it, we launch it, we chain them, we change the oil, we add hyd fluid, we move the aircraft, we brake ride the aircraft. We clean the canopy and ddi's so the pilots can see, check the fuel/hyd fluid for contamination. These jets are ours. And we know every single mechanism. Every Delta P that needs to be checked. Every bolt, piece of safety wire that needs to be there and we also are there when other shops need us for other work.

 

We are the ones standing on the flight deck with 6-20 chains on our shoulders waiting for the pilots to finally land of the flight deck.

 

sorry, i know its a bit much. But it really isn't an apt description in my mind. Sailors do it better!

Yea, I was a crew chief in the Airforce. :)

(I was a plane captain at 18, ask a crew chief how old he is)

I was 18 when I started as a crew chief also, and?

Brother Dooley, excellent observations and this hardcore simmer who wants to get as much as possible correct, thanks you.

Well done. .

Startup procedures are highly dependent on the squadron doctrine. Have spoken to many F/A-18 pilots (all of them were ED SMEs), who flew from A and C models, Lot 5 to 20, they all say the startup produces vary a lot from squadron to squadron. Especially between U.S Navy and USMC.

The best example I can give you is how a U.S Navy pilot explained to me how they startup the Hornet on the boat. Most of the time they would use the APU to startup the first engine, and then they would use the crossbleed in order to prevent wear out of the APU. Then some time ago when I was talking to a USMC pilot, I said (thinking I was 100% correct) that they always start up the engines using APU and crossbleed once the first engine is started, and he said that's wrong and they are 100% dependent on the APU. But he also said that this varies with the squadron.

The books procedures also don't represent what they do in the cockpit either. It doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but that's not exactly how to do it.

Another example (although it's not as important as the other one) is how they use the AoA indicator in Units or Degrees. He said it's arbitrary, sometimes it's degrees and sometimes it's in units. Depends on the squadron.

So I believe this need to be looked individually. I'm not exactly quoting Amy, but just wanted to share this with you guys.

Does anyone have the full A1-F18AC-NFM-500 Pocket Checklist here?

All these crew chiefs and no Checklists, what's the world coming to.....

I do now andso cheers brother.

Does anyone have the full A1-F18AC-NFM-500 Pocket Checklist here?

 

All these crew chiefs and no Checklists, what's the world coming to.....

231 pages, always wondered why they had those big pockets in flight suits

Does anyone have the full A1-F18AC-NFM-500 Pocket Checklist here?

 

All these crew chiefs and no Checklists, what's the world coming to.....

I believe this pocket version of the procedure will throw a good amount of light into how the startup is done.

A little bit more about my time and history, I was first in VFA-97 and then VFA-125/122. I was at VFA-125 during the merge with VFA-122. Fun times. I worked on Lot 10-12’s at 97 and the Lot 8-27ish at 125/122.

As for different procedures for different squadrons, it’s kind of right. So all most all procedures were standard, such as engine start up as you have to follow the Pub. The APU was used for all engine start ups, unless it was an FCF Flight, crossbleeding the engine was only a check after engine swaps or the jet was down for 30 Days. However some of the smaller procedures would be tailored to the squadron with a waiver from the wing. For example, when I was in 97 we didn’t go to the boat, so we did only a three down, no launch bar, during launches. Also some squadrons would forgo the launch bar check on the beach because they were afraid it would fail in the down position.

The engines do seem a little fast on start up and EGT is slightly off IIRC. but we are talking like 10 degrees or so off. Rule of thumb was EGT should be about what N2 was x10. So pretty darn close. That’s a useful tip to identify a hot start before the EGT gets too hot.

The cold bit that Wags was talking about was referred to as an exerciser bit. And we really only used it on cold days to warm up the hyd system. So in Lemoore, not very often. But it’s good to see it included. But like I said I have the launch procedure down cold, and could still do it to this day on and A-D. Same for the Sailor’s Creed for that matter lol.

Does anyone have the full A1-F18AC-NFM-500 Pocket Checklist here?

 

All these crew chiefs and no Checklists, what's the world coming to.....

HAHA. I feel ya bruh

If you read the checklist it has typos. It says insure instead of ensure a few times. If I made that mistake at my current employer we would miss our budget by millions.

A little bit more about my time and history, I was first in VFA-97 and then VFA-125/122. I was at VFA-125 during the merge with VFA-122. Fun times. I worked on Lot 10-12’s at 97 and the Lot 8-27ish at 125/122.

 

As for different procedures for different squadrons, it’s kind of right. So all most all procedures were standard, such as engine start up as you have to follow the Pub. The APU was used for all engine start ups, unless it was an FCF Flight, crossbleeding the engine was only a check after engine swaps or the jet was down for 30 Days. However some of the smaller procedures would be tailored to the squadron with a waiver from the wing. For example, when I was in 97 we didn’t go to the boat, so we did only a three down, no launch bar, during launches. Also some squadrons would forgo the launch bar check on the beach because they were afraid it would fail in the down position.

 

The engines do seem a little fast on start up and EGT is slightly off IIRC. but we are talking like 10 degrees or so off. Rule of thumb was EGT should be about what N2 was x10. So pretty darn close. That’s a useful tip to identify a hot start before the EGT gets too hot.

 

The cold bit that Wags was talking about was referred to as an exerciser bit. And we really only used it on cold days to warm up the hyd system. So in Lemoore, not very often. But it’s good to see it included. But like I said I have the launch procedure down cold, and could still do it to this day on and A-D. Same for the Sailor’s Creed for that matter lol.

Thanks for the insight man!:thumbup:

Yea, I was a crew chief in the Airforce. :)

Retired Weapons Troop here. AO to the Navy guys. "Without Weapons, it's just a single seat airline!":thumbup:

Great insight AMEDooley!

Does anyone have the full A1-F18AC-NFM-500 Pocket Checklist here?

 

All these crew chiefs and no Checklists, what's the world coming to.....

I do now! Thanks for this sir!:thumbup:

Another thing for people to use during their cockpit inspection before start up is cockpit switchology. For the Hornet it was really simple: NO ASS. This works for almost all switches in the cockpit so let me explain.

N-Normal

O-Off

A-Auto

S-Safety

S-Standby

Every plane captain was taught NO ASS when I was active and it works so well. Switches should be in normal, if no normal than move it to off, if no off than auto and on and on. This doesn’t work for some switches such as Anti-skid, hook bypass, launch bar but you get the idea. Happy Hornet Eve everyone!