KA-50 Losing Laser Target Capability

Some tipps for using the Laser in the Shark.

 

-A/A Mode Pruduces BY FAR most Heat caused by permanent Rangefinding.

 

So the A/A mode, which sometimes turns on by itself (probably when you point to the sky rather than the ground as you fire the laser) does continuously lase the targeted point. That is also useful to know.

Thank you for the replies,

Cheers.

So the A/A mode, which sometimes turns on by itself (probably when you point to the sky rather than the ground as you fire the laser)

Anyone else experienced that the A/A mode turns on by itself? (I've never experienced it)

Could I please get a source on this? I really want to read up more on the Shark's targeting capabilities. This thread has already been super helpful =)

So the A/A mode, which sometimes turns on by itself (probably when you point to the sky rather than the ground as you fire the laser) does continuously lase the targeted point. That is also useful to know.

 

 

Thank you for the replies,

Cheers.

Anyone else experienced that the A/A mode turns on by itself? (I've never experienced it)

1. The A/A Mode doesnt turn on by itself >You can also fire a Vikhr in A/G mode onto an Airborne Target. The Missile than will only explode by Impact into the Target.( Difficult caused by the Beamride/Vikhr Spin)

2. The A/A Mode needs an Accurate Distance to let the Vikhr explode close to the Target via Radio link (shrapnel). Thats also why the Headon/Airborne Target mode button is there> That one Causes the Vikhr to explode in front of the Target and not behind when it is flying towards your own position(like a Shotgun).

3. YES the laser gets most heat during range finding

-A range find cycle is 3 seconds+5seconds minimum cooldown=8seconds.

-After the 8 seconds rangefind/cooldowncycle the Temperature is still more than at the begin.

Edit: You can also take a look to this mod by Devrim: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93618&highlight=HUD+Temperature&page=2

 

2. The A/A Mode needs an Accurate Distance to let the Vikhr explode close to the Target via Radio link (shrapnel). Thats also why the Headon/Airborne Target mode button is there> That one Causes the Vikhr to explode in front of the Target and not behind when it is flying towards your own position(like a Shotgun).

Thanks for sharing this also, it might be helpful sometimes.

The A/A mode might've turned on for me automatically when i was trying to lock for the sky initially, just to bring up the range indication on the shkval before scanning the ground, which gave me a constant range calculation..., so it's just my mistake for not knowing how it actually works.

Thanks for all the tips once again,

Cheers.

Edit: You can also take a look to this mod by Devrim: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93618&highlight=HUD+Temperature&page=2

Thanks for posting link to Devrims mod - was unaware of it!

Edit: You can also take a look to this mod by Devrim: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93618&highlight=HUD+Temperature&page=2

I've been using this mod for quite some time now, and it makes it clear that the countdown you see after firing the laser is NOT a cooldown timer! It tells you for how long the laser is firing. Therefore, you should always use the Laser Reset Button to stop the laser from firing after your missile has hit the target. This helps to reduce laser wear.

@Stevef

Yes thats maybe my fault. But i have on my mind that there maybe is an significant difference how there Rangefind will be done by the target type.

-You just do lase the Ground for a Distance knowledge.

-You Track a Target

-You Track a moving Target

If you have time can you check this out please. I cant fly by myself and check this on my own. (broken Joystick :cry:)

BTW: There is no laser reset button i know of. The button you talk about is the reset button for the complete shkval i think (Targeting mode reset). So if you use it after destroying a target you have to slew the shkval again to the last position to Destroy the next one(if there is lets say a Tank group of 4 Tanks).

Maybe its faster to bind a Key to the laser on/off switch to your Joystick. So you havent to slew the Shkval again.

May be he just meant "turn Laser Switch off"?

"The small “СБРОС ЛДП” laser designator reset button is used to cease laser illumination, if it has not already timed out after 20 sec. [LALT + LCTRL + O]"

page 94 in the manual

Thanks for the info.

Well, what to do to re-lase the target?

Turning Laser Switch to off and on?

Thanks for the info.

 

Well, what to do to re-lase the target?

Turning Laser Switch to off and on?

press the laser fire button?

"The small “СБРОС ЛДП” laser designator reset button is used to cease laser illumination, if it has not already timed out after 20 sec. [LALT + LCTRL + O]"

 

page 94 in the manual

Oh hey thanks i never noticed that little one.

Sure why not use this one, results should be nearly the same.:smilewink:

@Stevef

Yes thats maybe my fault. But i have on my mind that there maybe is an significant difference how there Rangefind will be done by the target type.

 

-You just do lase the Ground for a Distance knowledge.

-You Track a Target

-You Track a moving Target

If you have time can you check this out please. I cant fly by myself and check this on my own. (broken Joystick :cry:)

 

BTW: There is no laser reset button i know of. The button you talk about is the reset button for the complete shkval i think (Targeting mode reset). So if you use it after destroying a target you have to slew the shkval again to the last position to Destroy the next one(if there is lets say a Tank group of 4 Tanks).

Maybe its faster to bind a Key to the laser on/off switch to your Joystick. So you havent to slew the Shkval again.

I don't quite understand what you mean.

There is a difference between lasing without track (3 seconds) and with track (8 or 9 seconds)

A difference between moving / not moving targets does not exist to my knowledge.

The button i meant is this one:

"The small “СБРОС ЛДП” laser designator reset button is used to cease laser illumination, if it has not already timed out after 20 sec. [LALT + LCTRL + O]"

alternatively, you can also toggle the laser on/off.

The difference is that with the laser reset, the range will remain displayed in the Shkval (even though it is not accurate). Firing a Vikhr in this state, will cause the laser to be fired quite long, depending on the distance and I reset it after the missile has hit.

Disabling and re-enabling the laser causes the distance to be erased. Firing a missile in this state will cause the laser to be fired for only 8 seconds which is sufficient for shots closer than about 5.8km. If the distance is longer, the laser will cease firing and the missile loses track, but it's useful for close range shots, because the laser ceases quickly anyways.

I've bound both to the stick so I can use whichever suits the situation better.

@Stevef

Yes thats maybe my fault. But i have on my mind that there maybe is an significant difference how there Rangefind will be done by the target type.

 

-You just do lase the Ground for a Distance knowledge.

-You Track a Target

-You Track a moving Target

If you have time can you check this out please. I cant fly by myself and check this on my own. (broken Joystick :cry:)

 

BTW: There is no laser reset button i know of. The button you talk about is the reset button for the complete shkval i think (Targeting mode reset). So if you use it after destroying a target you have to slew the shkval again to the last position to Destroy the next one(if there is lets say a Tank group of 4 Tanks).

Maybe its faster to bind a Key to the laser on/off switch to your Joystick. So you havent to slew the Shkval again.

@Stevef

Yeah thats why i have written maybe....... Thanks.... i just wasnt sure about this one.

And i really didnt know about this laser reset Button.:music_whistling: OMG im getting old i think:doh:

Done some tests now

First, the temperature indicated seems to be measured in Kelvin. The idle temperature is dependent on the outside temperature and roughly corresponds to temperature + 273.

The laser goes into a cooldown mode when reaching about 342K

Keep in mind that this is a hidden feature and as such, it is most likely not fully implemented. The laser for example seems to cool down to idle temperature awfully quick.

1.

Distance targeted: 11.7km

Laser firing time: 31 seconds

Missiles fired before laser death: 29

Total laser firing time: ~15 minutes

2.

No Ranging

Laser firing time: 9 seconds

Missiles fired before laser death: 66

Total laser firing time: ~10 minutes

3.

Only laser-ranging

Laser firing time before laser death: ~15.5 minutes

While the laser was operating a lot close or even beyond the 342K mark in test 1, it worked for a longer time than in test 2

It's interesting that the firing time is roughly the same for firing long range and ranging, but when firing with just 9 second burn time, it's significantly less

It's good that things have become a step more clearer now after the last discussions. So now we know what those countdown seconds were standing for, and other further details.

Have a KAMOV day,

Cheers.

I know that laser overheating was modeled in BS1. If you did not follow the cycle that is descibed in the manual, then the laser would eventualy fail.

Doesn't know if it is also the case in BS2, but looks so :)

I follow these simple rules, and have never encountered a burned out laser

 

1) Use laser only when you're going to attack and require precice range measurement. The 'without laser' range is precise enough for most cases.

2) Wait for the countdown on hud to complete after each lase, before using the laser again.

In BS2 in DCS World, the LASER definitely fails. If I am lucky enough to survive 2 or 3 out and back sortie rotations with the same Ka-50, the LASER will fail on the 3rd time out if the Laser is constantly left on.

So-oooooo, I do not turn it on until I need it and when done RTB, I turn it off.

There is an outfit in Northvale, NJ that manufactures artificial rubies for industrial and military laser use. I suspect military contracts are their bread and butter. The issues with dealing with the military is the cost involved having a good quality control department as to records and the "paperwork" involved. They were 2 factories over from where I was working in an industrial park.

http://www.inradoptics.com/

The Hud shows the time out period for laser cooling.

The laser does burn out and does stop working with overuse, The mission "Gauntlet" requires 2 repairs!

The laser burn out is not set in all missions or is set to a high percentage of failure.

I think only two missions have this set but it could also be that they are the most target rich missions.

Yes, I agree. I usually "fly" on a MultiPlayer server. I do not think the LASER is modeled true as to burn out time. One sortie out I doubt anybody will experience laser burnout. Use the same helicopter just rearming and refueling, not doing repairs, my experience, the 3rd sortie will experience a non-working laser if left on throughout.

Anyone else experienced that the A/A mode turns on by itself? (I've never experienced it)

No.

Paralysis by Analysis,,,, I just realized that I am now MORE confused as to how to use the Laser then when I started reading. I know this is an old thread but man, I have to find a youtube Vid that explains this better. Finding that little red button and the switch next to it from the manual has basically now paralyzed my brain. How do I refire the laser after hitting this button again LOL,, Oh Man!

I gotta say, I spent a couple of hours last night searching Google and Youtube. I did a lot of reading. It seems as there is pretty much no discussion revolving around the use of the “laser designator reset button” as mentioned here at post 34. I do certainly appreciate the input on that though. Basically, the way I understand it is that you pretty much have to focus a lot on the cycles and increments (but who really does that?) or you do nothing at all except maybe just turn the laser switch on when you enter and leave your target area OR Turn your laser on when your about to lock up a target, lock the target, fire at the target. After target is hit turn off the laser, lock next target up without laser on, once locked and ready to fire, turn laser back on…. Repeat process.

I would really have loved to see something more explicit on a Youtube tutorial, but no luck so far.

You dont need to lock on every target, lock on only for moveing targets. Every time firering the laser produces heat. (If you lock on every target you fire the range finder too)

Push the lock button one time to fire the laser on the dirt to read the range.

Move your aiming reticle square on your target and rifle...

after impact move to the next target... and so on.

After impact you can turn off and on your laser to save some seconds because laser is still on after impact for a few seconds.

But thats nonsens, you need to smash your shkval into the ground after your 3. run anyway, to do a repair.

or you risk a laser fail in the 4. run.

Laser heat is also dependung on weather.

I realize you dont need to lock up the target with the laser on, but you must turn the laser on so the Viker can ride the cone to the target.

Getting back to the use of the “laser designator reset button” anyone using it or have any links to share containing specific discussion of it? Thanks,

When you fire the Rangefinder in normal mode, Laser is 3 seconds on.

In standby mode the Laser is firering the time needed to guide a Missile.

Use the reset button to stop the laser.

You can see a cound down in your hud by activating the laser.

I remamber a post People describing the use of the standby mode for lunching the KH-25ML, but there is no need for.

The internal Systems calculating the laser time by range with 1 second +

I lunch my KH-25ML in normal mode on 13km without any Problems.

You can save this one second with the reset, but thats nonsens.

---

I think the only use for the standby mode is for Buddy lasing.

That particular switch you are referring to I NEVER touched. I am aware that it is there, and I have read the manual for it. I guess the point I am trying to make is that there does not seem to be much discussion on these 2 items on the front dash. Like I said above, I pretty much only see discussion regarding the intervals of usable laser and the 2 distinct operations of the laser, but not so much the appropriate use other than what I stated above. Above I basically consolidated what I read that was common on all the posts I read via Google search.