Pilot model

That's the Nix-Gut case, I wasn't referring to it.

 

But this one is the one I was talking about: https://www.jurion.de/Urteile/BGH/1979-04-25/3-StR-89_79

I took that right from your original post:

Okay.

 

https://openjur.de/u/78740.html

 

Search the text for "originalgetreue Modelle".

I'll take a look at this one too.

I took that right from your original post:

 

 

 

I'll take a look at this one too.

Yeah, the link didn't add up for some reason. I had to google "BGHSt 28" to find the case the page is referring to.

OK, did you read the entire text? This is from 1979 and it's another case that's similar in nature but this time regarding a model maker. And if you read the very last sentence the conviction was overturned. Also, if it were to be precedence then it would have been quoted in following cases which it obviously wasn't.

Here's the final decision:

The judgment of the District Court is after all so far wrong in law, as it denies the applicability of § 86 a StGB in the specified scope. This lead to the repeal of the conviction, since it concerns a single act together with the object of the pending by the foregoing part of the prosecution.

OK, did you read the entire text? This is from 1979 and it's another case that's similar in nature but this time regarding a model maker. And if you read the very last sentence the conviction was overturned. Also, if it were to be precedence then it would have been quoted in following cases which it obviously wasn't.

 

Here's the final decision:

 

The judgment of the District Court is after all so far wrong in law, as it denies the applicability of § 86 a StGB in the specified scope. This lead to the repeal of the conviction, since it concerns a single act together with the object of the pending by the foregoing part of the prosecution.

Au contraire.

13

Das Urteil des Landgerichts ist nach allem insoweit rechtsfehlerhaft, als es in dem angegebenen Umfang die Anwendbarkeit des § 86 a StGB verneint hat. Das führt zur Aufhebung des Schuldspruchs, da er zusammen mit dem Gegenstand des nach dem Vorstehenden noch nicht erledigten Teils der Anklage eine einheitliche Tat betrifft.

Rough translation as follows:

"The verdict made by the district court is legally erroneous insofar as it denied the applicabilityof §86 a StGB in the extent outlined above. This leads to the annulment of the verdict of guilt because it comprises one action together with not yet arbitrated parts of the indictment."

In short, the defendant got prosecuted and was found guilty of parts of the indictment. Both he and the prosecution were unsatisfied with the verdict and the case ended up with the Bundesgerightshof for appeal on points of laws.

The Bundesgerichtshof found the provincial court had denied application of §86 a StGB when it should have applied it instead, threw out the defendant's revision and admitted the prosecusion's, thereby revoking the verdict the previous court had made.

The case was then retrialed and the defendant found guilty of violating §86 a StGB.

This can be found at the very top of the document:

1.

Die Revision des Angeklagten gegen das Urteil des Landgerichts Kleve vom 13. September 1978 wird verworfen. Der Angeklagte hat die Kosten seines Rechtsmittels zu tragen.

The defendant's appeal fails and he has to pay the process costs.

2.

Auf die Revision der Staatsanwaltschaft wird das genannte Urteil mit den Feststellungen aufgehoben.

The prosecusion's does not and the whole thing goes on retrial. The previous verdict is thrown out because you cannot legally be found guilty of one and the same crime twice.

EDIT: Here, §86 a: https://www.jurion.de/Gesetze/StGB-1/86a?from=0:431139

Wait, the thread did not start with German law in mind. It might be an interesting topic in itself, but keep in mind that swastika has been outright banned in Russia for quite a few years - well, not literally, as their law says about Nazi symbols in general, but recently the law has been followed very strictly over there.

Situation in Germany is irrelevant then, as first and foremost, You can't expect ED - a Russian company, to commercially make and distribute a product with illegal content, can You? Same situation with 1C and their CloD back in the day, or BOS/BOM now...

... or with Japanes pr0n companies, not making non-pixelated pr0n movies for legal reasons, even though such movies would be perfectly legal anywhere outside Japan :D.

Wait, the thread did not start with German law in mind. It might be an interesting topic in itself, but keep in mind that swastika has been outright banned in Russia for quite a few years - well, not literally, as their law says about Nazi symbols in general, but recently the law has been followed very strictly over there.

 

Situation in Germany is irrelevant then, as first and foremost, You can't expect ED - a Russian company, to commercially make and distribute a product with illegal content, can You? Same situation with 1C and their CloD back in the day, or BOS/BOM now.

The thing is, it's illegal for such a product to be sold inside Germany, and ED is doing just that with DCS. That's the problem.

It doesn't matter where the product was made or what country the company's in, inside German sovereign territory, German law applies and if you want to sell your product, it had better not break any part of it.

I did use Germany as an example because I am the most familiar with its laws as I live in there (and somehow I never learned Russian, so go figure).

Even one country could land ED in trouble with Steam, for instance. I just ended up in a discussion about whether German law stated the things I said it did. In fact, that was my second post in this thread.

The swastika will be removed ASAP.

Thanks for your reports!

@Racoon, you better look at the FW 190 pilot as well then.

Go to ...\DCS World\CoreMods\WWII Units\Bf-109K-4\Textures and copy Pilot_BF109.dds

 

You will also need "pilot_BF109_FP1.dds" from ...\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Bf-109K-4\Cockpit\Textures.

I did that, and looked at the FW 190 pilot.

It is situated in similar folders, and will need to be extracted, should we want to use him.

As for the laws, I can fully understand them, sadly.

There is simply too much historical association connected to these symbols. :(

For me, a hidden option, or someone making a mod, could possibly be the solution for those of us that like to keep the historically correct looks in the game.

Wait, the thread did not start with German law in mind. It might be an interesting topic in itself, but keep in mind that swastika has been outright banned in Russia for quite a few years - well, not literally, as their law says about Nazi symbols in general, but recently the law has been followed very strictly over there.

 

Situation in Germany is irrelevant then, as first and foremost, You can't expect ED - a Russian company, to commercially make and distribute a product with illegal content, can You? Same situation with 1C and their CloD back in the day, or BOS/BOM now...

 

... or with Japanes pr0n companies, not making non-pixelated pr0n movies for legal reasons, even though such movies would be perfectly legal anywhere outside Japan :D.

+1. Just accept the fact that different coutnries have their own regulations related to totalitarian symbols. It's not only nazi but also sickle and hammer. In some cases propagading those symbols are banned by the constitution.

Opinions on wheter it makes sense or not are just not relevant as it's just a bad idea to take a risk for including a content that that can put a publisher under a trial.

Apart of that if anyone want's to use the symbols on the liveries for whatever reason it's their performance judgment and conscience. But have some respect for others that can find it controversial and don't use it on publicliy open multiplayer servers.

The thing is, it's illegal for such a product to be sold inside Germany, and ED is doing just that with DCS.

I found out why. I had to do some digging but I came up with the main reason.

In Germany, video games are classified as "toys". Toys are not covered under the regulation § 86a StGB (3) Subsection (1). So it's a huge loophole that has allowed the German government to prosecute producers of video games and ban their products.

So instead of them being classified as "entertainment" or "educational" like they are in just about every democratic country on the planet, Germany is a special case. It's remarkable that the video game industry hasn't been able to get them reclassified considering it's 5% of the global video game market.

There are some exceptions so it's kind of a gray area. In order to get them through you have to go through the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien or Federal Review Board for Media. It's a difficult and tedious process so I'm sure that most producers just say forget it.

Well, interesting debate, but

I'm not going to buy anything from a WW2 simulation if swastika's are removed. That's just plain stupid and historically inaccurate. And if it's because of "attrocities", then Soviet Russia, Japan, and Britain ( Bomber Harris) should be the first emblems to be removed.

The swastika will be removed ASAP.

Thanks for your reports!

never noticed it, but glad to hear that.