Proposing Mig 21-93 BISON

Good Day Gentleman!

You guys from Leatherneck did an absolutely great Job, I love this plane and fly it exclusively. So I thought, as next project, instead of a complete new aircraft, make a mod. I would be definitely interested in staying with a modernized 21 :). I guess the Bison is concerning data gathering,weapon systems and avionics easier to model than the Lancer.

Some of the Mig 21-93 features are

-Kopyo Radar, A-A and A-G capable

-can carry R27, R73, R77 (!), Kh-25, perhaps Kh-31A anti-ship missiles and KAB-500Kr bombs (most allready modelled in DCS)

-HUD

-one sexy MFD in the cockpit

-better sight out of the cockpit

-many more, so help me :)

Would give the FC3 Drivers a lot more headache as an opponent.

Tell me what you think and Leatherneck: Consider it!

I don't know if I would want that to be the next project but I would love to see it eventually.

Hi, KewlerMouh!

I prefer keeping the Mig-21bis as is since it is a good module and plus I really enjoy flying old jet fighters which have analog gauges! Thanks!

Cheers,

Vincent

Day 1 Purchase for me and my community, we love the Mig-21, and a modernized one with more capabilites will be nice. also, you can guys make a discount for the Owners of the Bis, to increase sales.

This is sexy

This is sexy

 

oh... Oh yes.

For me - better way - F-13 version or PF.

Sounds nice but not very promising. Don't Forget these great guys are still working hard on bug fixing.

Major problems

1. To get first hand facts about the Radar. Israel don't talk much about it's developments including the jammer of the Bison.

2. Modeling of AG radar. Could be possible for a third party but will take too much time I think. We should wait for ED with the F-18 since they will have to solve this problem as well. After that they will hopefully be so kind and share this technology with other developers.

3. You call it mod. If you would spend again 50 bucks I see no problem but how many people will do? I think beside the external model and some weapons they will have to go much of the way again. Cockpit, systems, sensors, balancing.

Just my opinion :music_whistling:

Not yet. How about we worry about getting *A* version of a different airframe, so it has something to fight with/ against, and *THEN* spend effort on niche models used by very few nations.

I'd be much more interested in an F-16, MiG29, Su27 (DCS-level, of course), F-4, Mirage, Gripen, Draken, MiG23, A-7, Buccaneer... heck, I'd rather see a Kfir or Cheetah, or even an OV-10 before another rendition of the MiG21.

Not "no", just "let's work on something else first, with broader appeal to people other than a tiny niche of MiG21 fans"

I'd prefer the MiG-21 LanceR, but a Bison sounds good.

To each their own. I prefer early jets, up to the cold war era at most (1st to 3rd gen jets in general). As I said not long ago, I hope Leatherneck won't ever resort to "game balance" ways because of the other modules are able to do this or that (especially FC). If they ever decide to put LCD into their 21, I hope it will be completely optional, not affecting the original Bis version in any way (or completely standalone product). I like the raw beast, with issues being fixed on it as we fly, I really think it has a grand place in DCS as a hi-fi module even now (considering more of the quality modules set in the same era will be added in the future, I believe, making it even better in the long run).

In other words "fight FC3 with FC3", it seems like the same sport indeed, but completely different league.

I would also love both Bison and LanceR, I'd prefer Bison though.

Though, I am sure LN already has some plans, I'm just hoing this may one day be among them :).

Also @OP : I'm fairly sure Bison doesn't have an AESA type radar. As far as I know they have Kopyo, a smaller version of MiG-29's Zhuk-ME radar.

Although I like the idea, it will never happen as it will render the BIS version outdated. Then they would watch all their hard work not being used, and the sales would mostly go to the newer version instead.

How about making the -93 BISON a FC3 TYPE? PFM is already there ad cockpit is half finished. System modelling would be way easyer and would cost way less time. Then there will also be a reason to fly the BIS.

I know that the have soo much to do with the BIS but a man can dream right?

I don't see any reason not to offer one of the modernized versions. I'm more concerned with a good opponent for our current MiG-21, but after that I don't see why not. Saying everyone would just go with the modern version isn't very realistic imho. Does everyone immediately hop into a Bf-109K and skip the Bf-109E in a WW2 sim? No, of course not. They both have their place. Do a 1970's or 1980's scenario and the MiG-21Bis is the one used. Do something 2000 onwards and the Bison, Lancer, -93, -97 or -2000 make more sense.

From a modeling standpoint, I'd like to see such a module fully developed. Having flown the MiG-21 here now, I have zero interest in continuing with FC level modeling.

For pricing, something a little different would be needed. I don't think it is reasonable to charge full price for both planes but cutting the price on one or both for all buyers isn't a good commercial move. I think the most appropriate option would be a discount system. Pay full price for one of them and get half off the other model if you buy it (including at a later date).

Both should, of course, be full price modules, though it would be neat to have discounts for owners of other variants, perhaps...

While it may be right that another 21 would cut sales of Bis, I'm sure a possible upgraded MiG-21 would be quite later down LN pipeline, and by then Bis would have sold it's share, and for niche who would prefer Bis only or Bis too, it would still be there. Therefore I do not think a Bison or LanceR would be commercially bad move, when you think they wouldn't be available at least 3-4 years from now if they will ever be.

I don't think it is ever going to happen. But if it does, i would buy both.

Somebody could make a Mod of the Bis version. Only like that we could take this beauty to reality.

Absolutely, would love to see this version become a reality.

Thanks for this good discussion so far, this forum and community are great!

Sounds nice but not very promising. Don't Forget these great guys are still working hard on bug fixing.

 

Major problems

 

1. To get first hand facts about the Radar. Israel don't talk much about it's developments including the jammer of the Bison.

 

3. You call it mod. If you would spend again 50 bucks I see no problem but how many people will do? I think beside the external model and some weapons they will have to go much of the way again. Cockpit, systems, sensors, balancing.

 

Just my opinion :music_whistling:

@1: Guten Tag, FSKRipper!

As WinterH allreade mentioned, it is the Russian build Kopyo Radar:

The Kopyo is a family of multimode, steered array antenna radar systems for combat aircraft. These radars provide detection, target identification, tracking and attack capability against airborne - including hovering helicopters - and ground/surface targets as well as weather information. In the air-to-surface mode, the Kopyo radar provide mapping, moving target indicator, target range finding and multiple ground targets tracking. The Kopyo radar family has been selected for the Yak-130/133, upgraded Mig-21-93 and Su-25/Su-39 combat aircraft.

I thought on the first glance it an Active Electornically Scanned Array, my error. I will change the first post.

@3: I would pay full price for it and it should be definitely a own, second Mig21 module with all bell and whistles. As said, I love the Mig21 Airframe and will fly it for a long time. But I really like 4th Generation Jets, so having both would be just awesome.

One personally consideration is, I have in the meantime not the amount of freetime to get in to every DCS Module anymore. I have to pick carefully or delay it to retirement. So getting a 4th Generation Fighter based on a plane I allready know is also a motivition for me.

You guys made very valid comments. FC3 is not an option IMHO. It was great to make first steps in DCS, but after getting into the A10C, Ka50 and now the first DCS level fast mover, there is no going back. Just impossible.

We will see what Leatherneck heck out after this masterpiece.

Ah ok. I was also wrong. Thought it would be some kind of the Lancer upgrade. In this case it could be also difficult to get reliable information on the Kopyo. Most nationd seem to have problems with sharing data with flight sim enthusiasts :). Would also like to see a modern version but at the moment I'm more interested in what the puppet master will reveal as next aircraft.

What you said about time... I know it well, a job, a wife and a 14 month old son are very time consuming. Maybe DCS with a big amount of planes will be ready when my little wingmen get's a HOTAS for his 12th birthday :)

hehe, Ripper, nice, I am in the same situation of my life (2 months younger). Keep the head up!

I want the radar pod for the Su-39... it was 'promised' back in 2002 I think (or maybe 1999)...

mig-21-2000

as for pricing, make it like the actual upgrades for the mig-21 in real life, you buy the mig-21bis, then pay for the upgrades?

Well. I don't particular like to have one of those new fancy-@ss MiG-21's with their digital cockpits and HUD. But the airplane sure can use some kind of a BVR like missile.