Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

It would have been a lot more fair to sell the A-10 at an higher price tag (maybe $60) because the huge feature list totally deserved it, and FC3 at a much lower one (20-25).

A-10 was $60 originally. The price, coincidentally, went down to $40 as soon as it became available from sources other than ED, and Steam. I have a strong suspicion that noone would put it one their shelves at $60.

+1

DCS A-10C Warthog cost $59.99 on release.

Good catch. I remembered the wrong price because pretty much everyone got it at $40 or below, with steam sales or such. Even the pre-purchase, beta version price was lower than that isn't it ?

If FC3 is gonna be $25 after 3 monthes then ok.

I see - it would be ok then if these features were FC3 exclusive then?

Never said that. The issue is to sell exclusive FC3 features that aren't.

Let's phrase it "for $40 you get compatibility with DCS World which has these core features : ..." and you won't get to see those confused people who ask what is only in FC3 or not. And they can decide if it's worth it or not.

That won't even change much. A lot of people will buy it anyway, because they want to support ED, because they want to get online with their friends who already have other modules, etc. Trying to get even more through misleading advertising that's targeting the fanbase is really not needed.

Even the pre-purchase, beta version price was lower than that isn't it ?

No. Pre-orders were $59.99.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=58300

Never said that. The issue is to sell exclusive FC3 features that aren't.

Point me to where it says "exclusive FC3 features".

Your problem is that you are reading a lot of things that simply aren't there.

Great news! Although I think the price is too high for this patch.

I only hope that the developers have followed this and other related topics. I liked the fact that he finally Wags finally started to communicate with their customers, and finally, I hope that the decision makers in the ED, when finally published next American fighter, that will take care of proper opponents on the Russian side.

No it won't(Hope I'm wrong),as far as I know,the F15 simulated in FC3 is pre 2000-2005

A-10C is 2008. That argument has been used over and over and is an excuse for features that were borked to even up the gameplay. Back on topic, are the missing radar modes being added to the F-15? I don't mind paying to bring FC into the DCS series. I think it will unify the community again. ED however should fix the things they screwed up or should have fixed in previous incarnations of the sim. I'm happy about any cockpit or graphic upgrade, but I'd prefer they fix what (IMHO) killed Fc2. 1) the ridiculously horrible performance of ARH missiles, amraam in particular. 2) flying below 20 meters making you impossible to be hit with a missile. 3) The aforementioned ECM issues ranging from the ridiculous warm up to prevent macro users to denying any kind of radar lock till within 10 miles. 4) effectiveness of beaming and how easy lock is lost. Didn't have to be a perfect beam, as long as you were within 25° of the notch it worked. Not to mention how long it took to reacquire the signal when the a/c left the notch. 5) chaff rejection is no where close to real world performance. Countermeasures in general either under or over perform depending which that you use. There are more that I'll post later but it would be nice if we could get some kind of official reply about these issues. I'd like to buy FC3 but not if it was the dog that FC2 was. LOMAC before the first patch had better weapon performance.

Great news! Although I think the price is too high for this patch.

I only hope that the developers have followed this and other related topics. I liked the fact that he finally Wags finally started to communicate with their customers, and finally, I hope that the decision makers in the ED, when finally published next American fighter, that will take care of proper opponents on the Russian side.

Yes I have - but note my first post in that thread.

I would like to at least try to make sure the most heinous of bugs are looked at for FC3. NOTE:- THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL BE FIXED. I will log them and ED will decide the priority.

It is VERY important that you understand the above.

Nate

Is anyone working on an updated manual, especially where it pertains to the F-15? Also, the resource management system, which should actually be covered in the World manual that we still need.

As a single player guy, I was happy most happy to see this -

New F-15C campaign and single missions.

FC2 had a good amount of single player content, hopefully it will continue in FC3

Also, asked previously but not answered (definitively, at least)

If I have FC2 installed, but not Lock on anymore, will FC3 install? I'm sure I could dig up my lockon disc again if I have to, I'd just rather not.

Thanks!

Point me to where it says "exclusive FC3 features".

Playing on the words ("key FC3 features" is not "exclusive" indeed) is what gets people here to wonder what are the differences between an FC3 feature and the same thing they can already see in DCS World. While there's no difference at all.

The way it's said in the announcement, it's strongly implies the features are for FC3 only, once again. Which is true, but only for a part of them.

Okay, maybe some of this stuff is confusing to some people, point taken; there is a particular way in which products are announced, and I don't know if it's better to do it your way or otherwise (not my job anyway, obviously).

Other than that, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, perhaps without knowing it.

That $40 doesn't just get you compatibility with DCSW NOW, it gets you all DCSW improvements now and in the future for FC3. I would guess that at some point FC will be completely phased out as the various modules, 3rd or ED's own, will gradually take over the stable of aircraft it presents, but it will be a long time before that happens anyway. In the meanwhile, updates to DCSW that come with future development will be available for use with FC3, and that's not mentioning the features that were developed as part of the FC3 plan which you already know about.

You want to shoehorn everything into some sort of 'but this is for dcsw' idea, but finances do not work that way. I doubt there is a separate revenue stream for DCSW and FC3 (or any other module for that fact), so improvements to DCSW come as part and parcel of a module.

Let's phrase it "for $40 you get compatibility with DCS World which has these core features : ..." and you won't get to see those confused people who ask what is only in FC3 or not. And they can decide if it's worth it or not.

3) The aforementioned ECM issues ranging from the ridiculous warm up to prevent macro users to denying any kind of radar lock till within 10 miles.

Page 109, FC2 manual:

"At burn through, the radar will automatically transition to STT mode regardless of prior designation mode (LRS or TWS). ECM burn through is generally 15...23 nautical miles."

If I have FC2 installed, but not Lock on anymore, will FC3 install? I'm sure I could dig up my lockon disc again if I have to, I'd just rather not.

FC2 should do the job :thumbup:

I don't understand all the fuss here. Sure, dcs world gets an upgrade when FC3 comes out. But its not like FC3 is worth less because of it. If you compare FC2 to FC3 the features are a great improvement. Think of all the free upgrades FC3 will get with DCS fighter. Or DCS next.

Wags did say this will be the last of the FC ip. Of course, everything is subject to change.

After this release we will have finished the transfer from a patch based sim, to a core based sim. All features in future releases will improve the core. This should be the last upgrade to ever buy. After this only new plugins.

FC2 should do the job :thumbup:

Thanks HiJack! I was hoping to get an 'official' reply, but it really doesn't matter I guess as I'll find out eventually when I try to install FC3 - just curious and looking forward to it is all.

Thanks HiJack! I was hoping to get an 'official' reply, but it really doesn't matter I guess as I'll find out eventually when I try to install FC3 - just curious and looking forward to it is all.

Yep FC2 will do.

Nate

That $40 doesn't just get you compatibility with DCSW NOW, it gets you all DCSW improvements now and in the future for FC3. I would guess that at some point FC will be completely phased out as the various modules, 3rd or ED's own, will gradually take over the stable of aircraft it presents, but it will be a long time before that happens anyway. In the meanwhile, updates to DCSW that come with future development will be available for use with FC3, and that's not mentioning the features that were developed as part of the FC3 plan which you already know about.

Yup, if the features list put more emphasis on that and less on DCS World features I'd have nothing to whine about actually.

Although FC3 only needs a previous version of FC2 to run. Don't forget FC3 is a modual extension of DCS World. And on its own FC2:needs the origanal LockOn registry items to run properly. Just be careful of how much you uninstall to save some of that SSD space we all so desperately love ;)

Although FC3 only needs a previous version of FC2 to run. Don't forget FC3 is a modual extension of DCS World. And on its own FC2:needs the origanal LockOn registry items to run properly. Just be careful of how much you uninstall to save some of that SSD space we all so desperately love ;)

Nobody said that LockOn has to be on your SSD. I have 3 SSDs but there is also a 2TB conventional drive with lots of free space.

1] Install LOMAC on your storage HDD.

2] install FC 3* on your SSD

3] get rid of LOMAC

*or FC2

Yay looking forward to this.

Good news on Nav info being available in other modes.

Now has F15 ILS HUD symbolgy been corrected ? and the MIG29 Fuel system indications been corrected ? :)

Yay looking forward to this.

 

Good news on Nav info being available in other modes.

 

Now has F15 ILS HUD symbolgy been corrected ? and the MIG29 Fuel system indications been corrected ? :)

Both were reported.

Nate

Actually, I don't fully understand what ED owes to Ubi anymore. What's left of the original?

Actually, I don't fully understand what ED owes to Ubi anymore. What's left of the original?

You'd have to ask the lawyers.

Nate

Frankly, I'd appreciate the upgrade option for FC2 owners as I don't think this is a fair price for people who bought Lock On, then FC, then FC2 considering the current feature list. IMHO, already felt like that with the FC2 (introducing FC planes to the BS engine level), so this gives some deja-vu feeling for some reason.

The F-15C cockpit is a nice eye candy, but after the DCS: Warthog, it's kind of an overkill and a sore point without the full interactivity (on the other hand, if the DCS: F-15C comes next, this feature would then feel like FC3 is actually paying for the DCS: F-15C cockpit development) - I'm biased here because I'm mostly interested in Soviet birds in the FC series, but when I get some feedback on the new SP campaign, I might consider it a strong plus.

I'll have to see some examples of the SFM and A2A improvements before I start considering the purchase of this update. I felt that the P-51 was way overpriced for what it offered and didn't buy it. I hope the future FC3 feature updates will change my mind regarding this.