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HOTAS hell!


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After using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (what a name...) and keyboard commands to fly my A-10 for a couple of weeks, I decided to get TrackIR and a HOTAS. The TrackIR is fantastic, but takes some getting used to. The HOTAS I ended up with, was the Saitek X-65F. I was very sceptical about a stick that doesn't move, but I gave it a shot.

 

I haven't used it very long, but I just can't manage to fly and fight properly with it. I've tweaked force settings, deadzones and curves, but for me, maneuvering my A-10 and fighting at the same time just doesn't work with this stick, so I'm going to send it back.

 

But what about my alternativees? There's the HOTAS Warthog, of course, but I could really use some advice from HOTAS Warthog owners. It does look very, very big to be used on a desktop. If I was building a home pit, I would buy it, no question about it! But as I have to put it on a desk, I'm mainly thinking about the height of the stick. Would you consider it as mainly a "home pit stick" or something that's easy to use on a desktop?

 

The other choice would be the X-52 Pro. For those of you who use it, could you provide me with a few pros and cons (that goes for Warthog users, as well :) )? I had an X-45 a couple of years ago, and generally, I liked it (except for the base plate friction, which made smooth, small stick inputs very hard after a while).

 

I'll admit that I'm very picky when it comes to choosing joysticks, and maybe I'll never be satisfied, but right now, I just feel like I need some help deciding what to get...

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I use the TM Warthog on my desk without a problem (left and right of keyboard), wouldnt trade it for the world. Love this HOTAS sooo much.

 

Ahh, that's very good news! I guess I'll order one :). I have to order something else, anyway. The X-65 is useless, except for the throttle...

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http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=playseat+flight+chair&x=0&y=0

 

I use the TM Hog Hotas and it is hands down the best Hotas I have ever used, plug and play for DCS A10c and the real deal. I also have the playseat flight chair on the left of the link I posted, but, you can also get the swivel desktop chair to the right and your Hotas fits very nicely on either one and is a great addition to your flight simming fun. I suppose it all depends on how much you want to spend and the space you have really.

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The X65 takes some getting used to but once you do I have not had a more precise stick (including the Warthog) than the X65. You just think the manoeuvre and it happens exactly like you wanted to.

 

There's two reasons why mine is in the cupboard right now.

 

a) I used to let my palm rest on the palm rest on the stick while flying straight and level. This will cause an input on the 65F and thus you consciously need to not do this.

 

b) I have a Warthog as well and the custom integration with DCS A10 trumps the X65F at this stage.

With the price of ammunition these days do not expect a warning shot.

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The X65 takes some getting used to but once you do I have not had a more precise stick (including the Warthog) than the X65. You just think the manoeuvre and it happens exactly like you wanted to.

 

Yes, it is a very precise stick, I must agree on that. One of my problems is that whenever I have to use my right thumb to push a button or hat switch, I can't maneuver because I lose "pressure" on that side of the stick.

 

If only Saitek had made the X65 with a "regular" moving stick... That would be a VERY good product...

 

 

 

 

Edit: Oh, I didn't realize there was an input-output forum here. Sorry for that...


Edited by Ptroinks

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One thing to note about the Warthog HOTAS - aside from it being OVER 9000 for awesome - is that while it is big, the size of the stick mount really isn't that bad. Most of the "footprint" is the steel baseplate, which is made low and heavy specifically to give the stick a low centre of gravity; my desk will move before I accidently shift it while maneuvering. Literally! (Though it's a flimsy IKEA desk, so well... :P ) But this does mean that the stick part technically has a lesser footprint than even an x52. When not flying I can have pints, coffee mugs or sometimes even my mousepad (which is a soft one, I managed to lose my competition Razer pad when I last moved house) encroaching on top of it.

 

The throttle quadrant is different for size though, but there are good sides to this. As an anecdote I give you this story:

 

Me, Eddie, and a few other testers were doing a run with one of the MP missions, and after accomplishing the mission we were RTB. Eddie had previously bitched a bit about my habit of flying rediculously low (I like it when I scrape off the paint from unspent bombs), so I went for some fun and flew inverted right above him as he was on final. I had, however, forgotten about the fact that the A-10C has limited inverted endurance (some specifics about the fuel system in there), so I suddenly found myself with engines shutting down, full of unspent ordnance, inverted, at something like 500 feet AGL. Oh frack.

 

...but you see, the HOTAS throttle quadrant has all those switches right there! So I flipped over to level flight, emergency-jet all munitions, flip APU on and then both engines to override and can then quickly proceed to re-ignite with the ignitor switches. I made it.

 

I would not have made it if I had been forced to release the stick to operate said fast-restart procedure with the mouse in the virtual cockpit, though. This was all allowed to happen pretty much on reflex.

 

That was actually something like the second day after I received my Hog HOTAS, and it was the moment where I really decided that "OMG this is ******* awesome". :P

 

Aside from such anecdotal stuff, the resistance in the buttons and switches does take some getting used to, but coming from an x52 it has pretty much completely solved my problem with, err, accidental discharge. It is a very solid kit, definitely worth the money, and with the stick being near identical to F-16 (even an extra paddle not normally on the A-10C but being on the F-16), and the F-15E right-side throttle layout, you are set for more than just replica A-10C action.

 

...also, DCS:A-10C autodetects it and sets everything up properly right off the bat, excluding the trim hat. My verdict, as you might suspect from all of the above, is that the only reason not to use this HOTAS kit is if it doesn't fit the budget. If the budget allows it, go for it.


Edited by EtherealN
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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

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coming from an x52 it has pretty much completely solved my problem with, err, accidental discharge.

 

LOL! I know exactly what you mean!!! The Saitek buttons are far too easy to push, and "accidental discharges" happen very easily! Well, it didn't take many replies to convince me to buy the HOTAS Warthog :). Off to the webshops...

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LOL! I know exactly what you mean!!! The Saitek buttons are far too easy to push, and "accidental discharges" happen very easily! Well, it didn't take many replies to convince me to buy the HOTAS Warthog :). Off to the webshops...

 

You will suffer the opposite for a day or two when switching from other sticks to the Hog HOTAS - you'll be used to giving less pressure than you need, so you'll get some sporadic GAU-8 fire and some hung stores until you get used to it. But once you have it in muscle-memory you'll be good and you'll really appreciate the advantages.

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

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:D! Well, as long as I can maneuver smoothly AND use the buttons at the same time, I'm satisfied! The X65 costs about as much as a Hog here (not a real hog, mind you...) , so the money isn't an issue. Thanks a lot for your help!

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The throttle quadrant is different for size though, but there are good sides to this. As an anecdote I give you this story:

 

Me, Eddie, and a few other testers were doing a run with one of the MP missions, and after accomplishing the mission we were RTB. Eddie had previously bitched a bit about my habit of flying rediculously low (I like it when I scrape off the paint from unspent bombs), so I went for some fun and flew inverted right above him as he was on final. I had, however, forgotten about the fact that the A-10C has limited inverted endurance (some specifics about the fuel system in there), so I suddenly found myself with engines shutting down, full of unspent ordnance, inverted, at something like 500 feet AGL. Oh frack.

 

...but you see, the HOTAS throttle quadrant has all those switches right there! So I flipped over to level flight, emergency-jet all munitions, flip APU on and then both engines to override and can then quickly proceed to re-ignite with the ignitor switches. I made it.

 

You should be courtmartialed! LOL!

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well im happy with the WH stick, its awsome and has a quality feel to it. No dead zones or sloppyness. Compared to my old x52 pro is like comparing a Nissan Micra to a Bugatti Veyron. Comes at a price though :)


Edited by andysim
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Yea, I saved up some bits and got one recently. Once you get your hands on it you know its worth the hefty price tag. It's not a toy, it's professional grade equipment. Nothing compares

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OS:WIN7 HP X64|MOBO:ASRock Z68|CPU:I52500k@4Ghz|RAM:12Gb 3x4Gb GSkill Ripjaws 9-9-9-24 @1600Mhz|GPU:ASUS GTX580|HDD:2x128Gb Crucial sataIII SSD raid0|PSU:Antek 1000watt|Case:Antek 1200|Peripherals: TMWH|Saitek ProFlight rudder pedals|TrackIr4

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You should be courtmartialed! LOL!

 

I was. :(

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

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| Life of a Game Tester
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