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Inbound vs. Request Azimuth


fitness88

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Is the vector you receive from calling in 'Request Azimuth' the same as when calling in 'Inbound'?

 

In earlier years 'Inbound' vectored you to an intercept point to line up on final with the runway, not sure but I think there was also ATC telling you when to turn onto final from their vector. 'Request Azimuth' vectored you directly to the middle of the runway.

 

Thank you.

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That's correct. Well, more or less. It's a little bit borked, I'm afraid. Once upon a time the Inbound request got you guided to the approach point denoted in the kneeboard approach cards and upon reaching it you would be prompted to contact ATC for landing permission, which kinda doubled as the cue to turn for final landing heading. Especially that last part is a bit hit and miss now, though; usually you get that prompt when within a radius of the airfield, no matter the direction.

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That's correct. Well, more or less. It's a little bit borked, I'm afraid. Once upon a time the Inbound request got you guided to the approach point denoted in the kneeboard approach cards and upon reaching it you would be prompted to contact ATC for landing permission, which kinda doubled as the cue to turn for final landing heading. Especially that last part is a bit hit and miss now, though; usually you get that prompt when within a radius of the airfield, no matter the direction.

 

Yes this seems to be the way it is currently modelled.

 

So is the vector you receive from calling in 'Request Azimuth' currently the same as when calling in 'Inbound'?

If so this would be OK because when you want 'Inbound' info a second or third time to make sure you're on course then you don't need to abort inbound just to call 'Inbound' one more time...you can simply 'Request Azimuth' along your route.

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My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I think ATC responds to "Inbound" with a distance indication, but "Request Azimuth" doesn't indicate distance.

 

 

For this reason, I sometimes call an "abort approach", and then call "Inbound" again, to find out how far I have to travel.

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My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I think ATC responds to "Inbound" with a distance indication, but "Request Azimuth" doesn't indicate distance.

 

 

For this reason, I sometimes call an "abort approach", and then call "Inbound" again, to find out how far I have to travel.

 

Correct.

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If we had MK [button 9 on the HSI] working you would be able to instantly mark a waypoint where ever you are and then get all the distance/time travelled from that point.

Until its enabled I work with speed/60=miles travelled per minute/into the distance you need to go=minutes to target [use cockpit stopwatch].

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Another thing you can do is to use some very simple dead reckoning. You need to know your groundspeed (from your HSI in the case of the Hornet) and a time of some sort/clock.

 

If you’re doing 600knots GS then you’re travelling at 10 miles per minute, 540 knots is 9 miles per minute, 480 knots 8 miles a minute, etc (all multiples of 60) so to travel 40 miles at 600 knots GS will take you 4 minutes exactly.

 

Yes, that is what the formula I mentioned above gives you:book:

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  • 2 weeks later...
Is the vector you receive from calling in 'Request Azimuth' the same as when calling in 'Inbound'?

Last time I checked "Inbound" gives you vector to Initial, range and runway number to land. "Azimuth" gives you only vector to Initial. When in vicinity of the airport they will report visual on you (since the whole ATC is simplified visual approach comm) and advise you to "contact tower", which is the same ATC :) It is best to just perform visual approach from there unless you want to use ILS or PRMG, then you want to follow the Initial Point. Sometimes I use the abort/inbound trick too when I forget the runway or want to check the range but this is mostly with FC3 aircraft. For HiFi modules I use TACAN or ADF.


Edited by draconus

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We read this week, the ATC implementation will be overhauled this year to offer a more realistic experience.

As mentioned in my OP; in earlier years 'Inbound' vectored you to an initial intercept point to line up on final, not sure but I think there was also ATC telling you when to turn onto final from their vector. 'Request Azimuth' vectored you directly to the middle of the runway.

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You really should be using the tools at your disposal to accomplish this. You have waypoints to take advantage of your GPSand radio nav aids (TACAN, VORs, etc), that will give you distance heading and time to go based on your current speed, all displayed on your HSI.

 

Learn to use the resources you have at your disposal right in the cockpit. That's why they are there.

 

Exactly! Unless your entire NAV system was down and you were IMC - calling tower and asking for a vector to the runway on a clear day would get you laughed out of the Squadron.

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Yes, they do. Calling inbound, then tower, then ground is realistic but they don't vector you to the airport from far away unless in emergency and IFR, like Notso suggested.

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Not sure what you are referring to, I'm talking more about the TCA [terminal control area]. I use all the nav tools to get where I want, WP input, TACAN, VOR etc, and as mentioned formulation speed/60=miles travelled per minute/into the distance you need to go=minutes to target [use cockpit stopwatch].

 

What I'm referring to is a more interactive ATC simulation and I'm happy to say so is DCS.

Thanks for the input.


Edited by fitness88
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Yes, they do. Calling inbound, then tower, then ground is realistic but they don't vector you to the airport from far away unless in emergency and IFR, like Notso suggested.

 

Zactly. Most all airports - mil and civ alike - will have pre planned arrival and departure procedures depending on whether IFR or VFR and depending on where you're arriving from or going to. It could be as complex as a SID or IFR approach or as simple as a visual reporting point to sequence you into/out of the traffic pattern. For instance, Nellis AFB has a bunch of VFR departure and arrival procedures to use depending on the runway in use, which range you're going to and whether you have live ordnance or not. An example is the Stryk recovery when coming from the Western NTTR ranges. You would check in with Nellis Approach and they would clear you for the arrival procedure and then you likely wouldn't talk to them again until they passed you off to tower. You would be expected to follow the ground track and the altitude restrictions with no comms necessary. The procedure would take you to a point to line up on the respective runway typically for initial. Usually, these points would be programmed into the WP Nav route but the fighter crews would also know the visual references to follow as well. There are even specific recoveries for A-10s since their speed differential with the fast movers can cause conflicts.

 

For those that are interested, google Nellis AFB Instruction 11-250 to see how this works IRL.

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Not sure what you are referring to, I'm talking more about the TCA [terminal control area]. I use all the nav tools to get where I want, WP input, TACAN, VOR etc, and as mentioned formulation speed/60=miles travelled per minute/into the distance you need to go=minutes to target [use cockpit stopwatch].

 

What I'm referring to is a more interactive ATC simulation and I'm happy to say so is DCS.

Thanks for the input.

 

I am definitely looking forward to the more robust ATC comms that ED promises in the newsletter.

System HW: i9-9900K @5ghz, MSI 11GB RTX-2080-Ti Trio, G-Skill 32GB RAM, Reverb HMD, Steam VR, TM Warthog Hotas Stick & Throttle, TM F/A-18 Stick grip add-on, TM TFRP pedals. SW: 2.5.6 OB

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