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Old 09-26-2019, 02:34 PM   #101
Sierra99
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
Roger that. This "bit" is what I am here for to learn. At the moment the pilot has to do it all. I said it before and Harlikwin's description of a "magic zone" where fuel is flowing hits exactly what I feel while being connected: nothing.


Real boom operator said before something that lets me conclude: "nothing" is not how it should be according to reality.


So I'm satisfied with every little "bit" that provides a feeling. There is none yet.
The only thing o can add is IRL the only real "action / reaction" issue during refueling was directly related to the size of the receiver being refueling...but for completely different reasons. Fuel pressure and Bow wave.

With fighters you had to limit how many pumps you used during AR. Fighters are relatively light aircraft...,the fuel tube being free floating would telescope out due to pressure if the fighter wasn't taking the fuel as fast as it was being pumped. So I might make a contact at 12' but when we started passing fuel they'd slide back slowly to 13-14 feet. Enough to get a "fly forward" light on the PDIs. It usually wasn't aggressive event but it was directly related to the hydraulic effect of the fuel flow being somewhat constricted.

With heavies you could run 4 AR Pumps all days and they'd take the fuel without really noticing...but with heavies ya get a different interaction. Bow Wave. The nose of a heavy receiver (C-5 C-17, KC-10 etc) pushes a mass of air along in front of it that interacts with the tail of the tanker. As a C-5 closes to contact the air it's pushing with its nose begins to push UP against the tail of the tanker causing the tanker to want to descend. It also creates a big cushion between the two aircraft the receiver must push through as they close to contact. The same thing happens with fighters but to a lesser extent. They have to push through the tanker wake.
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Last edited by Sierra99; 09-26-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 03:03 PM   #102
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Thanks again Sierra. You're a source of knowledge as always. I slowly get the feeling how much work a truly realistic flight sim would be and that is reasonable to draw some lines when it comes to realism. On the other hand I see that there is no computer progress in the future that brings us to an end of wishes. This bow waves of heavies will come with DCS 5 or 6.0


You won't be surprised that I have another question about AAR: Does a real tanker bank and turn before or while contact without warning by radio communication like it is in DCS right now?
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Old 09-26-2019, 03:19 PM   #103
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Thanks again Sierra. You're a source of knowledge as always. I slowly get the feeling how much work a truly realistic flight sim would be and that is reasonable to draw some lines when it comes to realism. On the other hand I see that there is no computer progress in the future that brings us to an end of wishes. This bow waves of heavies will come with DCS 5 or 6.0


You won't be surprised that I have another question about AAR: Does a real tanker bank and turn before or while contact without warning by radio communication like it is in DCS right now?
It depends on the Comm option being used and the environment. If we're comm out No. Training missions...usually yes. If the receiver had Boom Interphone I always gave them a heads up...Usually the tanker will call a turn out of courtesy. Despite the popular belief...Tankers don't hate the receivers. But they also have the same Nav instruments we have so they know when a turn is approaching. The Biggest different is Real tankers ease into the turn.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:32 PM   #104
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The boom will automatically disconnect when it gets near to limits, ideally before it breaks stuff. But the pilot of the jet still has to do his bit to hold position.
Fair enough I guess. I've done it in the F15 and while its fairly easy to get lined up and connected I have issues "staying in the zone". Guess I just need more practice.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:34 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Sierra99 View Post
The only thing o can add is IRL the only real "action / reaction" issue during refueling was directly related to the size of the receiver being refueling...but for completely different reasons. Fuel pressure and Bow wave.

With fighters you had to limit how many pumps you used during AR. Fighters are relatively light aircraft...,the fuel tube being free floating would telescope out due to pressure if the fighter wasn't taking the fuel as fast as it was being pumped. So I might make a contact at 12' but when we started passing fuel they'd slide back slowly to 13-14 feet. Enough to get a "fly forward" light on the PDIs. It usually wasn't aggressive event but it was directly related to the hydraulic effect of the fuel flow being somewhat constricted.

With heavies you could run 4 AR Pumps all days and they'd take the fuel without really noticing...but with heavies ya get a different interaction. Bow Wave. The nose of a heavy receiver (C-5 C-17, KC-10 etc) pushes a mass of air along in front of it that interacts with the tail of the tanker. As a C-5 closes to contact the air it's pushing with its nose begins to push UP against the tail of the tanker causing the tanker to want to descend. It also creates a big cushion between the two aircraft the receiver must push through as they close to contact. The same thing happens with fighters but to a lesser extent. They have to push through the tanker wake.
Thats interesting, and things I would have never thought about. Thanks!
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:04 AM   #106
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Sierra99 - thanks very much for your detailed explanations.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:05 AM   #107
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Sierra99 - thanks very much for your detailed explanations.
Yes! Incredibly detailed I appreciate the insight.
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:35 AM   #108
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Thanks again Sierra99!
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:01 AM   #109
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https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.c...S-F-16C-18.jpg

When I see pictures like this I wanna yell " I CLAIM THE RIGHT OF PRIMA NOCTA!"

Real F-16s have all felt a Boomers touch and look like this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._June_2008.jpg
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:14 AM   #110
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PRIMA NOCTA!

*shudder* It's "primae noctis".
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