FightingFalcon Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Hey guys, so yeah as the title suggests I cannot beat this mission. I've only been playing DCS a couple of weeks now but have a general grasp of the basics, and I always end up getting defeated by the two F-16s in the second wave. First wave I can defeat the two F4/5s (cant remember which) no problem, and I get my wingman to take take of the 5-52. Then there are two F4/5s again and two F-16s as well. Both of which have AMRAAMS, which as far as I can tell are superior missiles to the 27-ETs I am carrying on my Flanker. So the way I see it the mission is heavily in the AI's favour. A lot of the time my Wingman gets shot down immediately following the start of the second wave, so its me against 4 aircraft. Ive tried it now about 20 times and its still the same result. Sometimes I can avoid the AMRAAMs by diving and launching chaff (Ive watched a few of growlingsidewinder's vids) but then they get me with a heatseaker which I never see coming until im in flames. Is this a difficult mission or is it due to my lack of skill only playing the game two weeks? I notice there doesnt appear to be any consistency either. Sometimes I play the mission and kill the two bandits with my first two missiles. I could then replay the mission straight after and both missiles would miss, with absolutely no difference in play from me. I guess this could be considered realistic. Any input welcome. Thanks. //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 It does take a while to get used to it. Use pre emptive flares, constantly flare at a steady pace if you feel vulnerable. The F-5 have to use heaters or guns and the Phantoms are vulnerable if you get behind them. Save the best for the Vipers. Use your your gun ammo when you can. You also don’t have to take out the vipers depending on what you want out of the game. If you take out the bombers and run away from spamraam spewing vipers that’s still an extremely successful mission, amraams are expensive! The tactic where chaff works best is notching and forcing it into a look down state while you are at low speed or slowing down. The Beryoza RWR with its strength indicator is the perfect anti amraam weapons, you can see pretty precisely how far away it is once they are pit bull as well as guess closing speed by how fast the strength increases. 1 Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 Thank you for your detailed reply AeriaGloria, much appreciated! //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Tried this another 20 odd times today and it just keeps ending the same way. Destroyed by slammer spam from the F-16s. I know this mission is possible as others have done it but ive tried every strategy I can think on and it still ends with me against 2-4 other aircraft by myself, two if which are carrying slammers. //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 The 'secret weapon' of the SU-27 of turning off radar and going low with only the EOS on seems to do nothing whatsoever to help. They lock me up just the same as if I was flying high with radar on. I try to sneak up on them and lock them up in helmet view and sometimes this lets me get a kill but while Im trying to do this there are the other aircraft that are tracking and locking me and ultimately shoot me down, which they do. I also thought that If I lock up a bandit with just the EOS and an IR missile that they cannot detect this, well just now an F5 just avoided not one but two 27ETs and this was within 5nm range. I tried again immediately after with an R-73 which again they managed to avoid. The AI pilots must have pretty good eyes! //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Those problems are all AI. Dogfights on multi player are much more rewarding. The AI has instant x Ray Vision through their plane will instantly flare against any IR missile even a maverick. Online, you’ll find no shortage of EOS kills Also you do not need to be aggressive, you are defending, you can drag them to your SAM net Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drona Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Remember that you have a wingman in this mission, use him effectively. Ask him to take out the bombers and use him as a decoy for the Vipers. In any case, here's a walk through of that mission flown by "Ironhand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Also your wingman will only acquire visually unless you tell them to turn radar on Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Thanks guys. I will give the vid a watch tomorrow. Looking forward to see how Iron does it. And yeah I'm beginning to realise the AI basically just cheat in how they can maneuver. Kinda disappointing that it's not fair. Just to test, I set myself up with unlimited fuel, ammo and made myself indestructible, and I absolutely could not shake a couple of AI bandits from my tail. Anything I tried they copied. Just watched it back on TacView and their turning circles are hilarious, they cut my circles every time which as far as I can see makes it literally impossible for a human player to beat. Spent 10 mins just going round and round, up and down and still they were glued to my tail. Takes the fun out of it. Maybe if I had stayed another ten mins they would have made a mistake but it does get boring after a while. //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong05 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 If you turned on unlimited fuel and flew with a full tank then your ability to maneuver would have been reduced significantly. Reduce your fuel state to 50% or less (pending how much of an advantage you want). You should be able to defeat any AI with a low fuel state in a turn fight in the flanker. 5800X3d, 32GB DDR4@3400, 6800 xt, Reverb G2, Gunfighter/TMWH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 If you turned on unlimited fuel and flew with a full tank then your ability to maneuver would have been reduced significantly. Reduce your fuel state to 50% or less (pending how much of an advantage you want). You should be able to defeat any AI with a low fuel state in a turn fight in the flanker. Hey thanks for the reply. I will try this in my next test. I don't think you can alter the loadout on the set missions though? //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Go to briefing and select mission planner and cntrl save then fly. If you want to save it permanently open it desperately with mission editor. In the beginning I would take AI and start with guns, then add heaters, then add sparrows, then amraams, so I was learning one thing at a time Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Go to briefing and select mission planner and cntrl save then fly. If you want to save it permanently open it desperately with mission editor. In the beginning I would take AI and start with guns, then add heaters, then add sparrows, then amraams, so I was learning one thing at a time How did I not notice you could do that. That's my lack of experience with the game I guess. Thank you again! EDIT - I cannot see a way to access the mission planner for the SU-27 bomber intercept mission. I click on it and it loads and then there is just an option to "FLY". Edited July 25, 2019 by FightingFalcon //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Open it in mission editor, that’s a limitation of instant action Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxDollarsAtWork Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Use the ER? AI loves to fly into the first missile most cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Have you tried to fly straight toward the AMRAAMS ones? You can avoid easily 4-6 AMRAAMS shot at you just by going toward them at max speed and barrel rolling. This way you can go fully offensive and launch R-27ET while you roll, once you get them defensive use R-27ER as you can support them when you don't roll fully around. Then if you have a change, put a R-27ET to other threat nearby to keep it away while you are dealing one. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingFalcon Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Hey guys. I have now successfully completed the mission. Thank you to everyone that replied. I read each reply and then also furthered my own learning by watching more YouTube videos. For anyone that is interested (perhaps other new people just like me): The skill that made my victory possible was understanding how beaming works. Basically, I came in below the two F-16s and perpendicular to them, as I learned this makes it harder for their radar to pick me up. I wanted to use my ETs so as to avoid having to turn on my radar at all (to keep with my stealth approach). So when I got closer, I then flanked slightly to face their engines so my ETs could get a good heat signature. I locked one up and fired, disengaged, locked the other up and fired. I managed to kill both bandits without them ever getting off a single missile at me. I then went onto dispatch the two F5s/F4 (I can never remember which comes in which wave). I locked up the first one with a 73 and manged to get the missile away (which hit the target), but then had to evade an AIM-7 fired from the other bandit by dropping and dispensing chaff. As this gained me energy I was then able to pitch up again and catch the second bandit with another 73 just as he was flying overhead. I asked my wingman to engage the two B-52s during the battle, so that I could concentrate on the fighters. Only downside is I ran out of fuel so in real life I would have had to eject and lose the aircraft but I still consider this a success lol. //Flaming Cliffs 3 / T16000 HOTAS / TrackIR 5 / i7 4770k@4.5GHZ / EVGA RTX 2070 / 32GB 1600MHZ RAM/ Samsung Evo 1TB SSD// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) Glad to hear. Flanker is most fuel efficient at 90 percent RPM, use the lowest afterburner stage as much as you can. Remember that the Su-33 is going to have much worse range due to higher weight drag and being able to load an extra two R-27s Edited July 28, 2019 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) Hey guys. I have now successfully completed the mission. Thank you to everyone that replied. I read each reply and then also furthered my own learning by watching more YouTube videos. For anyone that is interested (perhaps other new people just like me): The skill that made my victory possible was understanding how beaming works. Basically, I came in below the two F-16s and perpendicular to them, as I learned this makes it harder for their radar to pick me up. I wanted to use my ETs so as to avoid having to turn on my radar at all (to keep with my stealth approach). So when I got closer, I then flanked slightly to face their engines so my ETs could get a good heat signature. I locked one up and fired, disengaged, locked the other up and fired. I managed to kill both bandits without them ever getting off a single missile at me. I then went onto dispatch the two F5s/F4 (I can never remember which comes in which wave). I locked up the first one with a 73 and manged to get the missile away (which hit the target), but then had to evade an AIM-7 fired from the other bandit by dropping and dispensing chaff. As this gained me energy I was then able to pitch up again and catch the second bandit with another 73 just as he was flying overhead. I asked my wingman to engage the two B-52s during the battle, so that I could concentrate on the fighters. Only downside is I ran out of fuel so in real life I would have had to eject and lose the aircraft but I still consider this a success lol. Congratulations! And, if you learn how to dead stick land, there are a lot of roads and fields available if you run out of fuel Edited July 28, 2019 by Ironhand YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 The skill that made my victory possible was understanding how beaming works. Basically, I came in below the two F-16s and perpendicular to them, as I learned this makes it harder for their radar to pick me up. I wanted to use my ETs so as to avoid having to turn on my radar at all (to keep with my stealth approach). That would be notching (beaming + below the enemy). Also remember it's not just radar on that warns the enemy - your radar has to paint them to get noticed. Anyway AI is perfectly good at using radar so "stealth" rarely works against them unless you come from beyond their radar gimbal limits and they have no ground/airborne EWR on you. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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