Possibility of F-14D?

I heard that Heatblur WANTED to do the F-14D but the reason they couldn't was lack of information about the planes systems... the MFDs, HUD, etc... yeah only I found a manual illustrating nearly every aspect of the plane in like 3 minutes on the internet using google.

So Heatblur what's the status with this? is there another reason we may not be getting a D? Or is that something that could happen now? It sounded like you guys WANTED to do a D but we never heard if you would after the A and B where finished.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=205983

That thread didn't really answer the question did it? Also there was no mention that proper documentation was available now so if they had permission to build it they could. They've got everything they need in that manual.

I heard that Heatblur WANTED to do the F-14D but the reason they couldn't was lack of information about the planes systems... the MFDs, HUD, etc... yeah only I found a manual illustrating nearly every aspect of the plane in like 3 minutes on the internet using google.

 

So Heatblur what's the status with this? is there another reason we may not be getting a D? Or is that something that could happen now? It sounded like you guys WANTED to do a D but we never heard if you would after the A and B where finished.

We're always happy to recieve new information if you have any.

The problem with the F-14D is that the manuals previously available on the net are the unclassified -1 NATOPS which details systems pertaining to everything but weapons and sensor systems.

This in itself is far from enough information to do a combat simulation of an aircraft, it would however be enough to model an aircraft just for flying it, enough for MSFS not for DCS.

We simply haven't found information detailing the new radar and weapons employment systems in the F-14D as these are, to my knowledge, still classified.

That thread didn't really answer the question did it? Also there was no mention that proper documentation was available now so if they had permission to build it they could. They've got everything they need in that manual.

Proper documentation is available now? How come?

Edit: As Naquaii said, the usual NATOPS manual that can be found with a quick google search, does describe systems like the MFDs and the HUD, which you talked about, but it does not contain any information on the weapon and sensor systems and that problem has been discussed very much in the thread I linked above.

That thread didn't really answer the question did it? Also there was no mention that proper documentation was available now so if they had permission to build it they could. They've got everything they need in that manual.

Need to read the whole thread as this has been discussed at length. HB, as Naquaii echoed, needs the weapons and systems docs which are still unavailable.

We're always happy to recieve new information if you have any.

 

The problem with the F-14D is that the manuals previously available on the net are the unclassified -1 NATOPS which details systems pertaining to everything but weapons and sensor systems.

 

This in itself is far from enough information to do a combat simulation of an aircraft, it would however be enough to model an aircraft just for flying it, enough for MSFS not for DCS.

 

We simply haven't found information detailing the new radar and weapons employment systems in the F-14D as these are, to my knowledge, still classified.

F14D's been retired for 13 years. and those are still classified?

How would it be that such information pertaining to an F15E's radar and weapons or Hornets radar and weapons can be modeled when these aircraft are still operationally used, but F14 hasn't been for well over a decade? When the AN/AGP73 like F14's An/AGP71 had lots of technology derived from the Strike eagles AN/APG70 radar's digital components.:huh:

Or is the information just unavailable for other reasons? Ie just lost from archives or something?

My guess is it might give the current F-14 operator a potential upgrade path. Specifically in the WCS/fire control department.

My guess is it might give the current F-14 operator a potential upgrade path. Specifically in the WCS/fire control department.

Instructions for a pilot/rio to understand how radar /fire control is utilized as part of operations within an aircraft, wont lead to an ability to reverse engineer such technology.....

Its not an actual physical avionics component that can be taken apart, nor blueprints for building them. Totally different matter.

I think it’s safe to assume we will not be seeing the -D. So let’s focus on the A model. And all of it’s awesome skins. And flameouts.

In turn what about the F14B(U) model?

I think it’s safe to assume we will not be seeing the -D. So let’s focus on the A model. And all of it’s awesome skins. And flameouts.

No one suggested development should be stopped OF the A. A will included with the current F14B when it is finished. Same pack. Neither is no one suggesting F14D should have been part of the same package, but as a future follow up module.

NOw with F14D possibility being in left in doubt, don't forget there is also the F14B(U) for consideration if that F14D is not viable. Same AwG9 Radar/Fire control system as F14A/B, but with new Sparrowhawk HUD along with some features found from the F14D, like EGI, JDAM integration , DFCS, along with the RIO also getting the TID replaced with PTID.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=204752

Instructions for a pilot/rio to understand how radar /fire control is utilized as part of operations within an aircraft, wont lead to an ability to reverse engineer such technology.....

 

 

Its not an actual physical avionics component that can be taken apart, nor blueprints for building them. Totally different matter.

They do explain how weapons are integrated into, and handled by the fire control system, Might be interesting to them since they're looking for a alternative too the Aim-54.

In any case I'm sure the US navy's attitude is they'd rather be safe then sorry, so why even take the slightest chance someone could use that information. IDK Just a guess I could be wrong, maybe they accidentally classified it. :)

They do explain how weapons are integrated into, and handled by the fire control system, Might be interesting to them since they're looking for a alternative too the Aim-54.

 

In any case I'm sure the US navy's attitude is they'd rather be safe then sorry, so why even take the slightest chance someone could use that information. IDK Just a guess I could be wrong, maybe they accidentally classified it. :)

or maybe it simply hasn't been declassified yet, as all things were at some point before somone filed for a FOIA?

Considering Iranians use F14A's with AWG9, I doubt.? IF anything no theyd be looking to integrate other weapons with current existing system, vs one they dont use. And Those Russian weapons would work better with Russian System, not with an American one ( closest thing to the Aim54 would be Mig31 missiles maybe) ;),

Otherwise the only alternative to the AIm54 are reverse engineered AIm54's. Something they have already done with the watered down export models they were sold back in the days of the SHAH.

Again that logic doesn't make much sense as other documentation for to simulate earlier tomcat versions was available, or for that matter , neither how a Virtual consumer grade l Simulator isn't a substitute for RL, nor is there ( nore should there) any legal outcry to have it removed from market in fear of it being used as a 1st step orientation for new tomcat pilots? No there isn't.

Besides Iranians use a whole lot other platforms ranging from F4D/E's, F5E's, Mirage F1's, and Mig29's.

IN any case the whilst the possibility of F14D seems slim right now, there is also an F14B(U) that can be considered then.

No one suggested development should be stopped OF the A. A will included with the current F14B when it is finished. Same pack. Neither is no one suggesting F14D should have been part of the same package, but as a future follow up module.

 

NOw with F14D possibility being in left in doubt, don't forget there is also the F14B(U) for consideration if that F14D is not viable. Same AwG9 Radar/Fire control system as F14A/B, but with new Sparrowhawk HUD along with some features found from the F14D, like EGI, JDAM integration , DFCS, along with the RIO also getting the TID replaced with PTID.

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=204752

That sounds very interesting. Any infos if this will be intrgrated?

That sounds very interesting. Any infos if this will be intrgrated?

Yes, there is info. It probably won't get integrated:

F-14B with Sparrowhawk and PTID is unlikely. We'd rather spend that time on building an F-14D.

I think it’s safe to assume we will not be seeing the -D. So let’s focus on the A model. And all of it’s awesome skins. And flameouts.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. For one the aircraft is retired.

I'm still crossing my fingers that a D model can be done but would gladly take an F-14B(U). Other than the JDAM, it uses the same weapons as the older A and B. Although, we still don't have the AIM-7P in DCS and I hope that changes in the future.

and the documents will remain classified as long as Iran flies 14's.

F14D's been retired for 13 years. and those are still classified?

 

How would it be that such information pertaining to an F15E's radar and weapons or Hornets radar and weapons can be modeled when these aircraft are still operationally used, but F14 hasn't been for well over a decade? When the AN/AGP73 like F14's An/AGP71 had lots of technology derived from the Strike eagles AN/APG70 radar's digital components.:huh:

 

Or is the information just unavailable for other reasons? Ie just lost from archives or something?

F-15E's were not sold to Iran.

F-14D's Systems are still classified for that reason, it don't matter how long the Aircraft has been retired, As long as Iran has Any F-14 in their possession, any information on capabilities of the digitally upgraded tomcat vs the analog tomcat will remain classified.

And I doubt any ground crew is going to risk passing along a classified manual at this point, considering what happened to the last group of people that made simple parts available to the public for sale.

F-15E's were not sold to Iran.

 

F-14D's Systems are still classified for that reason, it don't matter how long the Aircraft has been retired, As long as Iran has Any F-14 in their possession, any information on capabilities of the digitally upgraded tomcat vs the analog tomcat will remain classified.

 

And I doubt any ground crew is going to risk passing along a classified manual at this point, considering what happened to the last group of people that made simple parts available to the public for sale.

Just to sidetrack the conversation. I was reading book that stated that Iran saved Grumman from bankruptcy with that order, because the Navy and US Government was giving them the runaround with financing after changes they wanted inflated the unit costs to where Grumman was loosing $1 Million with each unit they built.

F-15E's were not sold to Iran.

 

F-14D's Systems are still classified for that reason, it don't matter how long the Aircraft has been retired, As long as Iran has Any F-14 in their possession, any information on capabilities of the digitally upgraded tomcat vs the analog tomcat will remain classified.

 

And I doubt any ground crew is going to risk passing along a classified manual at this point, considering what happened to the last group of people that made simple parts available to the public for sale.

Ok is that just an opinion based analysis, or was something along those lines actually stated from someone in the Navy Brass?

If that were also the case a f14 simulation would not be permitted because they could download dcs and use it as a f14 trainer for the crew.

F14d is not an f14a. A manual doesn't build parts or allow the know how of reverse engineering, to upgrade or build more advanced tomcats. So i don't see what it would really do even if it did. Most cases even declassified stuff is still at least export restricted ( US citizen only)

f14 is not the only aircraft they operate. Ythat same logic f14a/b and other varying aircraft that they operate would also be withheld, which isnt the case.

Besides there no need for them to copy f14d, they have already made upgrade of the f14 utilizing Russian technology. Dont flatter yourself that they are still dependant for stealing stuff from the us when they have already invested in a different systems.

Its not an Opinion, its fact

A. Theres no point withholding any A/B manuals, They have them already. Their Tomcats were later Block As and had most of the changes introduced with the early Bs with Exception to the Engines and FCS Changes.

B. The D Tomcat's capabilities will remain classified because of the exported A Models. Its that simple. It has nothing to do with reverse engineering,

My father was an AE1 and maintained Tomcats for VF-101 and was deployed several times to maintain B and Ds during deployments in the 90s. And thats all they talked about as the Tomcats retirement began, was keeping documents, manuals and parts under lock and key for all Blocks.

As soon as all of Iran's Tomcats are INOP, that may change, but I doubt it, as they would try to procure parts.

They already lost 2 Tomcats this month to crashes.

One 2 weeks ago and another in the last 24 hrs.

Just to sidetrack the conversation. I was reading book that stated that Iran saved Grumman from bankruptcy with that order, because the Navy and US Government was giving them the runaround with financing after changes they wanted inflated the unit costs to where Grumman was loosing $1 Million with each unit they built.

The deal kept the Lines open while the DoD played around Approving The Terms of the new deal for New Airframes and Refits.

DoD got a cut of that deal plus we got US Fighter Presense in the Area.

Plus they paid for 80 and only got 79 Aircraft

Its not an Opinion, its fact

 

A. Theres no point withholding any A/B manuals, They have them already. Their Tomcats were later Block As and had most of the changes introduced with the early Bs with Exception to the Engines and FCS Changes.

 

B. The D Tomcat's capabilities will remain classified because of the exported A Models. Its that simple. It has nothing to do with reverse engineering,

 

My father was an AE1 and maintained Tomcats for VF-101 and was deployed several times to maintain B and Ds during deployments in the 90s. And thats all they talked about as the Tomcats retirement began, was keeping documents, manuals and parts under lock and key for all Blocks.

 

 

As soon as all of Iran's Tomcats are INOP, that may change, but I doubt it, as they would try to procure parts.

 

They already lost 2 Tomcats this month to crashes.

 

One 2 weeks ago and another in the last 24 hrs.

I think only one. The two articles ( one from july 2nd, and from recently are literal copy pastes)

In any case theres the potential that aforementioned process of fleet attrition can be accelerated even further by non accidental causes :D