Why wont DCS listen to us the customers

I wouldn't know. Never wrote a line of code, never got venture capital, never had a budget to model complex electronic equipment or flight physics and don't have the data or math expertise to do that anyway, don't know how CPU's or GPU's work, never had to market a niche software product, never had to adapt 10 year old code to evolving VR technology. So, unfortunately, I am unable to comment :/

I'm not going to comment on this post since I don't believe I have one...

So did anyone notice you can already fly the TF-51 with touch controllers only?

It works, but I would never use the touch controllers as long as I have a working joystick.

So did anyone noticed you can already fly the TF-51 with touch controllers only?

Good one! :thumbup:

So did anyone notice you can already fly the TF-51 with touch controllers only?

 

It works, but I would never use the touch controllers as long as I have a working joystick.

I'll carry on using the realistic control bats, thanks very much.

Is Jim L actually talking about VR controllers or captogloves? I am not sure I understand the reason of the first post.

Both actually as they will do the same job.

Your initial comment about 'we the customers' nonsense, it isn't 'we the customer' it's 'I the random guy who is inflating my own importance and desires'.

 

It's not something likely to come anytime soon on the grounds it's utterly useless. You might be able to do it with a Yak or CE, but virtually everything else requires too many controls, meaning an ACTUAL HOTAS is preferable to the poor precision and functionless mess of ''VR stick''.

 

It's fine for you to request it, but leave the drama at the door, yo. You're vastly outnumbered and far less important than you think. Log your request and move on, accepting that what you're asking for is an extremely uncommon, low priority niche desire. It's not bad, but you're not representative of much more than yourself in this particular case.

Not a self indulgent request you moron, there are lots of others after the same thing and not getting it.

He's talking about using rift controllers to grab the stick and throttle on a cessna sim that does implement it.

 

Its more or less uselss for DCS where you have dozens of integrated switches on a hotas. It works fine for a cessna, but its a joke for a combat aircraft. Thats my .02.

 

And he's whining that they won't implement this feature "he" wants, and mostly no one else does, because he's projecting his desires on the rest of the community.

 

If you want touch interface with your hands in DCS today, you go and get on the list for pointCtr and wait a few months. you can then click switches all you want with your fingers.

I am not just talking about a Cessna it also works on the big jets and anyway what works on a Cessna works on a fighter.

Who is this feature for then? Every serious flightsimmer is going to own physical controls, so it's not for them. Last I checked, DSC was a serious flight sim for people who are really into accurate simulations.

It,s for anyone who wants to use it , for your info I own a Hotas Warthog + others, and enjoy using it when playing using the monitor screen but with vr it is not possible to see the keyboard or the hotas, link to that the amount of commands there are in DCS that you have to remember and you have problems. link to that if your memory is not so good then having all controls within the vr environment is a good way to give visual clues which you would have if you were in the real aircraft. The other things that people are using are things like voice attack so you do not need to see the keyboard or indeed use it, unfortunately this does not understand my accent very well so not practical for me coupled to the fact that I consider it a cheat device to give some people a speed advantage over others but hey do you hear me complaining. Lets have some fairness here if you want to use your hotas use it but also let others who would like to use vr controls use them also or is it some fear losing there advantages and risk their standings tumbling.

I'm with you brother. I can't ever go back.

hear, hear and that is one reason for starting this thread, I have not really flown in DCS for ages as cannot get the buzz from my monitor anymore that I get in vr but the stick / throttle let vr down by not being implemented - breaking the immersion with having to remove the mask to see the keyboard etc.

Question: why not use voice attack if you are that worried about lifting the visor? I mean calling out your checklist isn't that crazy. I know, I know "But Guardian, I can't move my floating THING hand in the cockpit!" Just throwing up some ideas is all. I would much rather grab the HOTAS then Vive controllers (which is my VR)

Oh and just cause it works on a Cessna (GAG) doesn't mean it works on a Hornet, or Hawg, or AV-8B

I feel like once a month someone posts something ignorant like this.

 

What other programmers? Show me a SIM with all the functionality of DCS from the aircraft, to the environment, to the AI, to the communication, to the Mission Editor, to the Input/Output support. Please, tell me which one you're talking about that offers all that DCS does. I'm a flight SIM freak!! I would love to test out another one like DCS!!

 

1. Stop comparing other flights sims to DCS World. You can't do it because there are no other flights SIMs like DCS. Yes, there are other complex sims like Xplane and Prepared and even BFM. However, let's take a look at that for a minute. I have hundreds invested into Prepar3d and XPlane 11 and they're awesome. Yes, in Xplane you can use VR controllers to take command of the cockpt. However, VR support still has a long way to go for it. Let's also take a look at the Aircraft that come with XPLANE11 NOT the aircraft from 3rd party developers... They're crap! They are extremely lacking in functionality and quality. Most of the quality in BOTH scenery and aircraft come from either 3rd party or private development. That is just scratching the surface. Even BFM - sure it's a pretty darn good sim.. but severely lacking in the graphics quality that DCS offers. If, you're going to compare apples, it should be against another same type of apple.

2. You act as though DCS is a simple line of text and code that one who is skilled can whip out in a moment and boom you have what you want. Well then hell, we should have the F-16 tomorrow. Get ready guys! Give it a rest! You have no idea or understanding how this all comes together to make a fully functional, 3d, immersive, dynamic, high study level sim with complex systems, flight models, terrain, WEAPONS, targeting systems, drag and environment impact. While, offering full customization to all of the above without breaking the hell out of it.

3. You speak of VR as if it is a static technology. Just last night my CONTROLLERS for the Rift S had a firmware update. Which could have impacted many 3rd party sims or games that would be able to take use of the controllers.

 

I work in IT and closely with software development. So, I have an understanding of how truly difficult software development is. Sorry, to go on a rant. I'm not trying to discredit your frustration. However, address it appropriately and understand truly what you're asking before you comment as though it's as simple as changing the batteries in the tv remote. It's extremely disrespectful to their time and effort.

 

On a final note, do you realize how much functionality you would lose trying to use VR controllers over a traditional HOTAS? Really, sit down and ask yourself could you effectively combat the aircraft without them? Factor in, flaps, landing gear, trim, comms, slewing, armament controls, weapon employment, lights... The whole point of the introduction of HOTAS in real aircraft was to limit the amount of time a pilot had his/her hands of the controls. Just a thought...

I understand perfectly how much work it takes.

Your comment (Really, sit down and ask yourself could you effectively combat the aircraft without them? Factor in, flaps, landing gear, trim, comms, slewing, armament controls, weapon employment, lights... The whole point of the introduction of HOTAS in real aircraft was to limit the amount of time a pilot had his/her hands of the controls. Just a thought) makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about as all these controls are available in the cockpit already and duplicated on our Hotas,s at the request of persons who want to gain advantage / gain bragging rights over others by the fact they have the budgets to play with.

So did anyone notice you can already fly the TF-51 with touch controllers only?

 

It works, but I would never use the touch controllers as long as I have a working joystick.

Thanks for showing Nirvi this is what I and others would like to see in all the aircraft in DCS.

As I have said before if people do not want to use it and want to continue with there physical hotas then they do not have to use it but at least everyone has a choice as to what is best for them.

I understand perfectly how much work it takes.

Your comment (Really, sit down and ask yourself could you effectively combat the aircraft without them? Factor in, flaps, landing gear, trim, comms, slewing, armament controls, weapon employment, lights... The whole point of the introduction of HOTAS in real aircraft was to limit the amount of time a pilot had his/her hands of the controls. Just a thought) makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about as all these controls are available in the cockpit already and duplicated on our Hotas,s at the request of persons who want to gain advantage / gain bragging rights over others by the fact they have the budgets to play with.

:doh:

I understand perfectly how much work it takes.

No, you really, really, don't.

I'm astounded by your inability to comprehend this, your refusal to acknowledge the well reasoned and logical arguments put forth as to why a) the request is not going to be adopted wholesale by the community and b) DCS aren't going to prioritize its development.

And the budget/bragging comment?

Wow.

Nice chip you got there.

"link to that the amount of commands there are in DCS that you have to remember and you have problems."

No... YOU have problems. I seem to manage it just fine.

This is like people who say they need a gear indicator in a race car... No you don't. You have ears to listen to the engine. You know when you need to change gears.

If you're thinking about which buttons you need to press and then needing to look at them then just practice more. It will come to you ;). you might also re-map a couple buttons that you use less frequently to whatever buttons you're using all the time on the KYB... Just a thought :).

Do the same with your hotas and keyboard and mouse. BTW... It can click anything in the cockpit unless you're using an FC3 jet... but in those you can map everything to the hotas... because they're simple and only need like 15 buttons.

hear, hear and that is one reason for starting this thread, I have not really flown in DCS for ages as cannot get the buzz from my monitor anymore that I get in vr but the stick / throttle let vr down by not being implemented - breaking the immersion with having to remove the mask to see the keyboard etc.

I never use my keyboard. If it's not on the HOTAS then I do it all with VoiceAttack or the trackball that's on my knee. For me, the touch controllers are the biggest immersion breakers of all when it comes to flying.

People seem to have this odd idea that it's only 'proper' VR if it works with touch or equivalent. I've heard people complain that they paid good money for their Touch controllers so want to use them. Yeah well, try to use the right tools for the job. Touch controllers etc were not designed to fly aircraft with, no really, they were not.

Adapt and overcome please rather than being an anchor that slows the development process.

Also... you're point doesn't even make sense... wait a minute...

You're saying that you want your VR controllers to be able to grab the actual stick and throttle in game... but... they have hardly any buttons on them... so... this will increase the number of button locations you'll need to remember on the keyboard.

It sounds to me like using the VR controllers would actually contribute to your problem IMO. Using the HOTAS you'll have like 5x as many buttons right there under your finger tips, then you'll have a mouse that can click any button in the cockpit (that you can see... as opposed to using a keyboard which you CANT see) and that mouse is not really any different from an immersion perspective than using some floating device to grab a non-floating device in VR space to float it around...

Also... maybe try to contact all of these people that would rather use the VR controllers and get them to come in here to this thread to make their interests known... then maybe you would get some traction. As far as I can see there's mostly just you.

Also... I'm willing to accept that maybe you're actually right and using the VR controllers IS actually better for you...

But why?

All the folks in this thread have pointed out is just that having a clickable cockpit with a mouse and having all the buttons on a hotas seems to be the hot setup for them. Sure a few people have told you that you're "wrong" but whatever... For the most part they're just saying what works best for them and trying to convince you that it might be best for you...

But why do you feel that VR controllers are best for you? I mean without resorting to saying that it's because you can't see the keyboard... because with a hotas you can map all the keys you need, and then mouse click the rest... so there's no reason to remember keyboard keys at all. You just need to remember where the control is in the cockpit... which you CAN see...

The only problem I have in VR from a control perspective is sometimes when taking off, IF I don't map the gear and/or flap I sometimes have to fly with my left hand (stick is on the right like in an F-16) and operate my mouse with the right to click the gear and/or flaps control in the cockpit...

But... I pretty much always just use the F and G keys on the keyboard for those... and ONLY those. that's like all I use on the keyboard. I even have my F10 and F1 view and even my kneeboard buttons on my hotas. I mean... I run a full F-18 with a hotas, including full startup and everything... with ONLY the hotas, mouse and the "F" and "G" keys... I guess I use the "F1-12" when I need the comms SOMETIMES but even then I have \ mapped and now you can click the selection you want in the comms menu with the mouse...

I'm just not seeing how VR controllers have any advantage what so ever.

But... I have an open mind so change it if you can dude :)... I don't mind :).

M1: PointCtrl is your friend. See the thread New VR Pointing Device under the Input and Output section, and you’ll have the solution to all your problems using the mouse.

Well I mean... My problems literally consist of flying for like 4 seconds while I click one or two things but I'll take a look :).

The only problem I have in VR from a control perspective is sometimes when taking off, IF I don't map the gear and/or flap I sometimes have to fly with my left hand (stick is on the right like in an F-16) and operate my mouse with the right to click the gear and/or flaps control in the cockpit...

 

But... I pretty much always just use the F and G keys on the keyboard for those... and ONLY those. that's like all I use on the keyboard. I even have my F10 and F1 view and even my kneeboard buttons on my hotas. I mean... I run a full F-18 with a hotas, including full startup and everything... with ONLY the hotas, mouse and the "F" and "G" keys... I guess I use the "F1-12" when I need the comms SOMETIMES but even then I have \ mapped and now you can click the selection you want in the comms menu with the mouse...

 

I'm just not seeing how VR controllers have any advantage what so ever.

 

 

But... I have an open mind so change it if you can dude :)... I don't mind :).

When i flew with a side-stick , i turned around my trackball to use on the left . Less than optimal , but ok-ish . Logitech , however , does make a left-hand trackball for $80-ish . Never googled a left-hand mouse . I didn't want to spend the money as i planned to go center-stick , in which case a RH trackball is fine .

When i flew with a side-stick , i turned around my trackball to use on the left . Less than optimal , but ok-ish . Logitech , however , does make a left-hand trackball for $80-ish . Never googled a left-hand mouse . I didn't want to spend the money as i planned to go center-stick , in which case a RH trackball is fine .

I just say ‘gear up’ and VoiceAttack puts the gear up.

I just say ‘gear up’ and VoiceAttack puts the gear up.

I do use VoiceAttack with Vaicom Pro , but things like gear , flaps , hook are mapped to Hotas buttons . Most of my trackball usage is for DDI buttons and UFC entries in the air , and startup/shutdown stuff on the ground .