aw33com Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I'm new to M-2000, but I'm not new to DCS. I am really struggling with the M2000 bindings. I'm aware of the bugs and some fixes, but I'm not sure I understand the way this aircraft is configured. My setup: Joystick: Extreme 3D Pro My problem: Total inability to roll through/select radar modes one after the other. Total inability to roll through/select weapons one after the other. Problem Description: My joystick has limited space, I can't put too many functions there, so I rely on the keyboard. This is 100% fine with every other aircraft in DCS except Razbam modules. They bind functions in a very bizarre way and they never test (OR FLY!!!!) their modules, that's why we have silly errors. In other aircraft I have a single button to "go through" my weapons and select the one I want. Here we seem to have buttons on the PCA, but with this update the Magic can not be selected using PCA. Is there a way to have a single button to scroll through my missiles, and if not, what is the proper way to select Magic? What does PCA SELECT function do? How do I go through radar modes? I notice it has Special Modes AFT and Special Modes FWD. That is the weirdest way to select radar mode. Is there a way to map each mode or scroll through them with 1 button? This is the most difficult aircraft to figure out even though it is so simple. I mastered the Harrier and I'm aware of Razbam software, but this seems so difficult for me. Please help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawydz Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Hi, Controls are designed for HOTAS, and to fly advanced simulators yous should get one too. Everything will make more sense then. RAZBAM has it's way of making keybinds, that's true, but weapon cycle button will not work in case of M200c because of it's design. In theory: To select Magic or Canon you need specific key (one for each) located on HOTAS, and S530 should be selectable via PCA. The thing is, that if you select Magic or Canon, to be able to select S5300 you need to exit previous weapon mode, and I have no idea how to do this. RAZBAM has made cool and realistic update to weapons system, but provided no documentation at all, so yeah, I have no idea how to operate it too. Edited July 18, 2019 by Sawydz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The thing is, that if you select Magic or Canon, to be able to select S5300 you need to exit previous weapon mode, and I have no idea how to do this. PCA select is what you want. Magic an AA Gun can only be selected by HOTAS button (Magic select and AA gun Select). All the other weapons are to be selected on the PCA (530, rockets, bombs, AG gun and smokes). For air-air the weapon selection flow is the following : - Click 530 on the PCA to select the 530 missile. - Use HOTAS Magic select to get the magics. - Use HOTAS AA gun select to get the AA guns. - Use HTOAS PCA select to return to the PCA selection -> 530 It is the same with other AG weapons, and NAV/POL mode. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper2097 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 My setup: Joystick: Extreme 3D Pro Its a useable Joystick, but really not recommended. If you can afford it, buy a T16000 HOTAS. Or, even better, a Warthog. My problem: Total inability to roll through/select radar modes one after the other. Total inability to roll through/select weapons one after the other. Not sure what Radarmodes you mean, but at least cycling trough weapons is not possible in the Mirage. DCS is a simulator, not arcade, so weapon select works like in the real one. In other aircraft I have a single button to "go through" my weapons and select the one I want. Probably your other aircrafts are Flaming Cliffs modules? (Su27, F-15 etc...) Here we seem to have buttons on the PCA, but with this update the Magic can not be selected using PCA. Is there a way to have a single button to scroll through my missiles, and if not, what is the proper way to select Magic? What does PCA SELECT function do? There was a little change in the last update, but however, it works that way: (only A-A) On the PCA, you can only select 530 by clicking on it. The Super 530 is now selected and the HUD should show 530 on the left side. You can (and need) to bind three additonal functions: HOTAS select Gun, HOTAS select Magic and Hotas Select PCA. With that (a 3-way switch on the throttle) you can select between the S530 (selected on the PCA), the Magic II and the Gun in A-A mode. To de-select weapons, you need to choose HOTAS select PCA and click again on the 530 on the PCA so that the S under it disappears. If i understood it right, clicking MAG on the PCA should get you to some kind of IRST which uses the Magic sensor. But this is not implemented (yet). How do I go through radar modes? I notice it has Special Modes AFT and Special Modes FWD. That is the weirdest way to select radar mode. Is there a way to map each mode or scroll through them with 1 button? please specifiy which radar mdoes you mean. Standard you are useing RWS to display all contacts on the VTB. With the TDC you can slew over them and lock them in TWS mode. you can thenn toggle between TWS and STT. Also you can / need to slave the magic to a STT lock. Special modes (boresight and vertical scanning) is used only in WVR conditions and is needed to obtain a fast lock without looking at the VTB. Also don't forget to use the NWS for doing a IFF interrogation. This is the most difficult aircraft to figure out even though it is so simple. I mastered the Harrier and I'm aware of Razbam software, but this seems so difficult for me. Please help. Seems that you have some problems with A-A and how it works in general. Just take some time and maybe start with Chucks Guide. It helps a lot. Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Problem Description: My joystick has limited space, I can't put too many functions there, so I rely on the keyboard. This is 100% fine with every other aircraft in DCS except Razbam modules. They bind functions in a very bizarre way and they never test (OR FLY!!!!) their modules, that's why we have silly errors. The main reason why they made the controls that way is, is because they are like that in the real airplane. The Mirage is probably the first Dassault aircraft you fly in DCS and it does things a bit different than the american or russian jets. In other aircraft I have a single button to "go through" my weapons and select the one I want. Here we seem to have buttons on the PCA, but with this update the Magic can not be selected using PCA. Is there a way to have a single button to scroll through my missiles, and if not, what is the proper way to select Magic? There is no way to cycle through the weapons, just like in the real aircraft. You have a 3 way switch to select 1) the cannon, 2) the Magics 3) the weapon you previously selected on the PCA (usally the S530). With that there is no need to cycle through, as you have a dedicated switch press for each A-A weapon. What does PCA SELECT function do? Like I just mentioned, it selects the weapon you previously have selected on the PCA. The only A-A weapon that we have besides the Magic and the Cannon (which both have their dedicated select functions) is the S530. So if you select the S530 on the PCA and then select the Magic or the Cannon, you can then reselect the S530 with PCA SELECT. How do I go through radar modes? I notice it has Special Modes AFT and Special Modes FWD. That is the weirdest way to select radar mode. Is there a way to map each mode or scroll through them with 1 button? No, there is no way to map each mode. You need to use Special Modes AFT/FWD to cycle through them. That's just the way Dassault designed the close combat modes in the Mirage. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawydz Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 myHelljumper, thank you!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 myHelljumper, thank you!!! :D Happy to help :). Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aw33com Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) I figured few things since yesterday, but there are some new questions. myHelljumper, you're correct. PCA Select is what I was missing. Now I'm able to return to 530s from Magics, or Gun, but the whole thing is designed wrong. It is not like the real M2000, and it's completely inconsistent. Guns and Magic is on PCA, but you can not select it, or deselect it. What is the point of them being on PCA? In real M2000 there is a button for Guns and button for Magic (I assume it's Magic there) on the PCA, and it's not for display only. 1. Question/Problem: Does anyone know why 530s are not wired for Vertical Scan mode? I have never ever seen that on any fighter aircraft. While 530s are selected I can not go into that mode. 2. Question: How do I go back to RWS mode from a Radar Special Mode? Do I simply shot down the radar and turn it on again or there is a nice way? 3. Which radar special mode are you guys most successful with? My Joystick is enough and perfect for DCS. This is not a joystick problem. To those that told me this is a simulator, PCA Select and Special Modes is pure Video Game function, and has nothing to do with simulator or real airplane. My only problem/question was they were using 2 functions for the same thing as oppose to 1 (forward only) function like in other DCS modules. This gives them ability to go back and forth, which is kind on unnecessary. The real problem is Razbam and their unintuitive approach to controls. Same thing is in the Harrier. 5 badly designed controls and flying the aircraft becomes mega quirky. Edited July 18, 2019 by aw33com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) I figured few things since yesterday, but there are some new questions. myHelljumper, you're correct. PCA Select is what I was missing. Now I'm able to return to 530s from Magics, or Gun, but the whole thing is designed wrong. It is not like the real M2000, and it's completely inconsistent. Guns and Magic is on PCA, but you can not select it, or deselect it. What is the point of them being on PCA? In real M2000 there is a button for Guns and button for Magic (I assume it's Magic there) on the PCA, and it's not for display only. 1. Question/Problem: Does anyone know why 530s are not wired for Vertical Scan mode? I have never ever seen that on any fighter aircraft. While 530s are selected I can not go into that mode. 2. Question: How do I go back to RWS mode from a Radar Special Mode? Do I simply shot down the radar and turn it on again or there is a nice way? 3. Which radar special mode are you guys most successful with? My Joystick is enough and perfect for DCS. This is not a joystick problem. To those that told me this is a simulator, PCA Select and Special Modes is pure Video Game function, and has nothing to do with simulator or real airplane. My only problem/question was they were using 2 functions for the same thing as oppose to 1 (forward only) function like in other DCS modules. This gives them ability to go back and forth, which is kind on unnecessary. The real problem is Razbam and their unintuitive approach to controls. Same thing is in the Harrier. 5 badly designed controls and flying the aircraft becomes mega quirky. From the way you are writing, you are at least a real life fighter pilot with 4000 flight hours on Mirage 2000C. If not: RTFM, and use left click to make PCA selection. And if you thing that is enough: then you haven't seen it all. I have Saitek X-55, and still wish I had some more buttons... Edited July 18, 2019 by jojo Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper2097 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Can you give us some information how it works in the real aircraft? Just because you say you know it. Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) PCA Select is what I was missing. Now I'm able to return to 530s from Magics, or Gun, but the whole thing is designed wrong. It is not like the real M2000, and it's completely inconsistent. It's like the real M2000C, A2A Gun and Magics are selected on a 3 position Throttle rocker switch with the central (neutral) position = the PCA (armament panel) selection. Guns and Magic is on PCA, but you can not select it, or deselect it. What is the point of them being on PCA? In real M2000 there is a button for Guns and button for Magic (I assume it's Magic there) on the PCA, and it's not for display only. Selecting guns on the PCA panel is for A2G, PCA 'Magic' is a special mode that *will* allow the magic seeker to be used as a IRST to search/detect targets (when implemented). 1. Question/Problem: Does anyone know why 530s are not wired for Vertical Scan mode? I have never ever seen that on any fighter aircraft. While 530s are selected I can not go into that mode. IIRC vertical scan is a search mode for Magics. 2. Question: How do I go back to RWS mode from a Radar Special Mode? Do I simply shot down the radar and turn it on again or there is a nice way? Special Modes Deselect/Unlock. To those that told me this is a simulator, PCA Select and Special Modes is pure Video Game function, and has nothing to do with simulator or real airplane. • PCA select = the mid position of 3 position weapon switch on the RL throttle. • Special Modes switch = the 3 position special modes switch (forward, aft and depress) on the control stick. See page 41 of Chuck's DCS Mirage 2000C Guide for diagrams of the Stick and Throttle. The real problem is Razbam and their unintuitive approach to controls. Some of Razbam's naming conventions could be better but the switches and their function are reflective of the 'real' controls. Unfortunately the recent Open Beta update broke my default HOTAS keybinds Throttle C = A2A Canon N = PCA Select i.e. center/neutral position M = Magic Arrow keys = TDC slew - Up, Down, Left and Right Stick Enter = TWS/STT Toggle / Target Lock Backspace = Special Modes Depressed - Deselect/Unlock Home = Special Modes Forward End = Special Modes Aft So YMMV. keybinding fix for open beta https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3981546#post3981546 Edited July 18, 2019 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aw33com Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) I looked at the cockpit and the buttons are there. Why have buttons if they don't do anything. It takes 5 minutes to Google it. Same thing was with Razbems' Harrier. Harrier's real aircraft manuals are public information. Right MPCD is not wired for Mavericks, but in DCS they are, even thought they can't be unlock. @Ramsay, your post is good, I'll verify all this when I get back home. Edited July 18, 2019 by aw33com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I looked at the cockpit and the buttons are there. Why have buttons if they don't do anything. It takes 5 minutes to Google it. What ARE you talking about? All the major buttons in the M2000 cockpit work as they should. Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph21 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I figured few things since yesterday, but there are some new questions. myHelljumper, you're correct. PCA Select is what I was missing. Now I'm able to return to 530s from Magics, or Gun, but the whole thing is designed wrong. It is not like the real M2000, and it's completely inconsistent. Guns and Magic is on PCA, but you can not select it, or deselect it. What is the point of them being on PCA? In real M2000 there is a button for Guns and button for Magic (I assume it's Magic there) on the PCA, and it's not for display only. 1. Question/Problem: Does anyone know why 530s are not wired for Vertical Scan mode? I have never ever seen that on any fighter aircraft. While 530s are selected I can not go into that mode. 2. Question: How do I go back to RWS mode from a Radar Special Mode? Do I simply shot down the radar and turn it on again or there is a nice way? 3. Which radar special mode are you guys most successful with? My Joystick is enough and perfect for DCS. This is not a joystick problem. To those that told me this is a simulator, PCA Select and Special Modes is pure Video Game function, and has nothing to do with simulator or real airplane. My only problem/question was they were using 2 functions for the same thing as oppose to 1 (forward only) function like in other DCS modules. This gives them ability to go back and forth, which is kind on unnecessary. The real problem is Razbam and their unintuitive approach to controls. Same thing is in the Harrier. 5 badly designed controls and flying the aircraft becomes mega quirky. :megalol::megalol::megalol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper2097 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 aw33com, you probably need that to get everything working as you expected: https://store.steampowered.com/app/502500/ACE_COMBAT_7_SKIES_UNKNOWN/ Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 aw33com, What you are telling us is very interesting, are you a Mirage pilot ? Or a Mirage mechanic ? Or a Mirage designer at Dassault ? It's very interesting because when we take a look at the real aircraft manual ("It takes 5 minutes to Google it") we can see that the PCA MAG button is used to start the magic MAV mode and not to select them. Same with the PCA CAS button, it is written that it selects the guns in Air to Ground mode (CAS = Canon Air-Sol = Air to Ground Gun). Also in this manual, we can read that the AA gun select and magic select are situated on the throttle on a 3 position switch with PCA select as the center position. Also, Razbam is currently working with the AdA (Armée de l'air = French Air Force), that is currently the only Mirage 2000C user, to correct and improve the module. And they have helped with the changes of this update. So if you have some informations that can contradict all of the above, please, share it with us :). Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) Guns and Magic is on PCA, but you can not select it, or deselect it. What is the point of them being on PCA? In real M2000 there is a button for Guns and button for Magic (I assume it's Magic there) on the PCA, and it's not for display only. It actually worked like this in the DCS M2000 from its release a few years ago untill Wednesday this week, because that is when the PCA overhaul kicked in: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=245165 This overhaul changed the function of the PCA and weapon selction based on feedback by the AdA (Armeé de l'Air = French Air Force)! If you think you know better how this all works than the french air force then I find that quite amusing... To quote one of the RAZBAM devs: Here is more information regarding The Armée de l'Air Française's Escadron de chasse 2/5 "Ile de France" involvement in the DCS M2000C enhancement: While it has been recieved by some with a justified skepticism, This is not something that has just happened, this has been in the works behind the scenes with reviews from the French Air force, approvals from Generals, Commanders, and Captains of various squadrons on multiple bases expanding future aircraft. As of right now we will have full base access, access to active pilots flying the aircraft every week, access to simulators, equipment and documentation that can be shared to public knowledge under the Armée de l'Air Française strict and severe information disclosure policy. These are aircraft that are in active service, information is VERY sensitive to all parties involved. Reason why it's taking this long to fix and or enhance our DCS module. In the next month we will post videos, pictures of our initial base visits, and other information as our partnership expands. This is a real and absolutely incredible task we have worked hard to give you DCS pilots the best and most authentic aircraft possible. Edited July 19, 2019 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al-Azraq Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) ¿Has the radar lock modes changed? I mean, do you still automatically change from TWS to STT when firing a missile? Edited July 19, 2019 by Al-Azraq i7 12700KF | MSI Z690 A-PRO | Corsair Vengeance 2x16 gb @ 3200 Mhz | RTX 3070 Ti FE | Acer XB271HU 1440P 144HZ | Virpil T-50 CM throttle | Virpil WarBRD Base + MongoosT-50 CM2 Grip | MFG Crosswind | TrackIR 5 | HP Reverb G2 Bf 109 K-4 | Fw 190 A-8 | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | P-51D | Fw 190 D-9 | P-47D | Mosquito FB VI | F/A 18C | F-14 A/B | F-16C | MiG-15bis | MiG-21bis | M-2000C | A-10C | AJS-37 Viggen | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-24P | C-101 | Flaming Cliffs 3 Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | The Channel | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 ¿Has the radar lock modes changes? I mean, do you still automatically change from TWS to STT when firing a missile? I'm not aware of any changes on this, so yeah, you should still automatically switch from TWS to STT when firing the S530. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph21 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 S350 can't be launched in PID (TWS), so if missile is fired, it should have switched to PIC (STT) automatically (hold trigger for 1sec IIRC). If radar can't switch to PIC automatically for whatever reason, missile shouldn't come off the rails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 S350 can't be launched in PID (TWS), so if missile is fired, it should have switched to PIC (STT) automatically (hold trigger for 1sec IIRC). If radar can't switch to PIC automatically for whatever reason, missile shouldn't come off the rails True, but sometimes, if the target has a jammer and you shoot before burn through range, the jammer may be triggered just after the launch and break the lock. So if you're doing BVR Vs jamming target, go PIC before firing. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al-Azraq Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) True, but sometimes, if the target has a jammer and you shoot before burn through range, the jammer may be triggered just after the launch and break the lock. So if you're doing BVR Vs jamming target, go PIC before firing. Great advise, thanks guys. Yesterday when I tried the new changes was a little bit confused but now I understand much better. Also there are a couple of bugs like the keyboard bindings and helmet visor going down with the MAG select that confused me as well, nothing game breaking as the MAG are selected anyway and the fix for the keyboard is already posted. Edited July 19, 2019 by Al-Azraq i7 12700KF | MSI Z690 A-PRO | Corsair Vengeance 2x16 gb @ 3200 Mhz | RTX 3070 Ti FE | Acer XB271HU 1440P 144HZ | Virpil T-50 CM throttle | Virpil WarBRD Base + MongoosT-50 CM2 Grip | MFG Crosswind | TrackIR 5 | HP Reverb G2 Bf 109 K-4 | Fw 190 A-8 | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | P-51D | Fw 190 D-9 | P-47D | Mosquito FB VI | F/A 18C | F-14 A/B | F-16C | MiG-15bis | MiG-21bis | M-2000C | A-10C | AJS-37 Viggen | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-24P | C-101 | Flaming Cliffs 3 Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | The Channel | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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