bbrz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) I'm not to the Hornets yet, however I remember reading that the baby Hornets would go burner and the rhinos would just go mil, but I could (and probably am) be wrong. According to the NATOPS manuals all F/A-18 models (A-F) go to MIL upon touchdown. Same goes for the F-14. On the F-4J/S the NATOPS manual says MIL/MAX as required. Edited February 21, 2018 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeroskills Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 You plan to bolter. I'm not to the Hornets yet, however I remember reading that the baby Hornets would go burner and the rhinos would just go mil, but I could (and probably am) be wrong. I think that's for the cat launch. "The Super Hornet gets airborne in nearly 1,000 feet less distance and nearly 20 knots slower than the Hornet. On the ship, the procedures are nearly the same as they were in the legacy Hornet, except now the catapult launch is in full flaps and there is no selection of afterburner mid-catstroke. There can still be afterburner shots for certain weights and configurations, but some of those procedures have slightly changed." From here: https://fightersweep.com/5334/ask-fighter-pilot-hornet-vs-super-hornet/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaylor0024 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I think that's for the cat launch. "The Super Hornet gets airborne in nearly 1,000 feet less distance and nearly 20 knots slower than the Hornet. On the ship, the procedures are nearly the same as they were in the legacy Hornet, except now the catapult launch is in full flaps and there is no selection of afterburner mid-catstroke. There can still be afterburner shots for certain weights and configurations, but some of those procedures have slightly changed." From here: https://fightersweep.com/5334/ask-fighter-pilot-hornet-vs-super-hornet/ Yep, I think that's where I remember reading that, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Jaw Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I always found this confusing andso have disregarded it over the years, and plan to disregard it for the coming CV ops with the Hornet too...BTW does the Lot 20 have an auto throttle? "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, ASUS RTX3060ti/8GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 One for the real F/A-18 pilots. The NATOPS manual states to apply full MIL power at touchdown, but the guy from the above mentioned link wrote: I always used to go to full afterburner on touchdown in the Hornet, but that is strictly verboten in the Rhino. If you see one do that on YouTube, he’s wrong. After watching a lot of F/A-18C/D landings on youtube it seems that approx 5-10% of the F/A-18C pilots use AB instead of MIL. When do you use MIL and when AB, especially since AB apparently isn't according procedure? i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappShot Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 One for the real F/A-18 pilots. The NATOPS manual states to apply full MIL power at touchdown, but the guy from the above mentioned link wrote: I always used to go to full afterburner on touchdown in the Hornet, but that is strictly verboten in the Rhino. If you see one do that on YouTube, he’s wrong. After watching a lot of F/A-18C/D landings on youtube it seems that approx 5-10% of the F/A-18C pilots use AB instead of MIL. When do you use MIL and when AB, especially since AB apparently isn't according procedure? Why would MAX in rhino be forbidden? Sounds like garbage to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 RHINO = Super Hornet Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappShot Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Thanks skate, very well aware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Why would MAX in rhino be forbidden? Sounds like garbage to me. I'm guessing that with more powerful engines MAX is unnecessary, and might even lead to loss of control due to greater asymmetric thrust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsteensen Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I always found this confusing andso have disregarded it over the years, and plan to disregard it for the coming CV ops with the Hornet too...BTW does the Lot 20 have an auto throttle? Yes it does. Also autoland. :music_whistling: OpenHornet F/A-18C 1:1 SimPit Website :: DCS Thread Link :: Discord :: Github :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 I always found this confusing andso have disregarded it over the years, and plan to disregard it for the coming CV ops with the Hornet too... Would be easier to understand it with a Hornet since the longitudinal FCS does active AOA control for you, and all you have to do is to use the throttle to influence pitch. EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Wags has posted another F18 video, this time doing a VFR landing on a runway. https://www.facebook.com/eagle.dynamics/videos/10160126628265341/ It's a great example for the topic of this thread of managing slope and AOA. Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 Wags has posted another F18 video, this time doing a VFR landing on a runway. https://www.facebook.com/eagle.dynamics/videos/10160126628265341/ It's a great example for the topic of this thread of managing slope and AOA. Great video on the field landing pattern. Looks like still a very Air Force way of landing: I'll place the velocity vector on where I want to land and use my throttle to adjust the angle of attack, again keeping a constant 8.1 degrees AoA. EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaylor0024 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Great video on the field landing pattern. Looks like still a very Air Force way of landing: Correct, at Navy fields we have the IFLOLS just like we do at the boat so landings are the same. Even only having a PAPI at a civilian field I'll still fly it like the ball as best I can (not nearly as precise). Pitch for AOA (trimmed you shouldn't have to do anything most of the time in good conditions), power for glideslope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdflyer Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Correct, at Navy fields we have the IFLOLS just like we do at the boat so landings are the same. Even only having a PAPI at a civilian field I'll still fly it like the ball as best I can (not nearly as precise). Pitch for AOA (trimmed you shouldn't have to do anything most of the time in good conditions), power for glideslope. Do you shoot approaches in IMC also with AOA and power ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaylor0024 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Do you shoot approaches in IMC also with AOA and power ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes, trimmed up on speed a mile or so prior to the FAF, then just ride it down with power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdflyer Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Yes, trimmed up on speed a mile or so prior to the FAF, then just ride it down with power. Interesting. The reason I’m asking is because in civilian aviation for instrument flying instead of “power for altitude, pitch for airspeed” - it actually thought “power for speed pitch for altitude”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaylor0024 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Interesting. The reason I’m asking is because in civilian aviation for instrument flying instead of “power for altitude, pitch for airspeed” - it actually thought “power for speed pitch for altitude”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I flight instructed civilian side before and it was always pitch for A/S (in this case AOA) and power for altitude, even on instrument, but that's besides the point and don't want to go off on a tangent like before in this thread. Important thing is that this isn't like every other aircraft, and the Navy has to do things a certain way to get aboard the ship consistently. If you're off AOA you don't trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdflyer Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I flight instructed civilian side before and it was always pitch for A/S (in this case AOA) and power for altitude, even on instrument, but that's besides the point and don't want to go off on a tangent like before in this thread. Important thing is that this isn't like every other aircraft, and the Navy has to do things a certain way to get aboard the ship consistently. If you're off AOA you don't trap. Thanks for info. It must be long time since flight instructed. PTSs became ACSs and a lot of frustrating things come with that. Of course it’s much different in F-18. P. S. Once in a while I do checkout for marine aviators for a local club, they are fun guys to fly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Wags Posted February 25, 2018 ED Team Share Posted February 25, 2018 I misspoke. Should have been throttle to control glideslope and stick to control AoA. Will correct in the next video... IFR airfield landing and showing off the Hornet's external and internal lighting features. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 I misspoke. Should have been throttle to control glideslope and stick to control AoA. Will correct in the next video... IFR airfield landing and showing off the Hornet's external and internal lighting features. Looking forward to the next video! Would be great if a little more explanation can be made on this technique since it does cause confusion. :thumbup: EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Interesting. The reason I’m asking is because in civilian aviation for instrument flying instead of “power for altitude, pitch for airspeed” - it actually thought “power for speed pitch for altitude”. Don't know on which planes you instructed but why would you change the method between visual and instrument approaches? i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdflyer Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Don't know on which planes you instructed but why would you change the method between visual and instrument approaches? I’m not that “big” to change anything myself. It’s been a common practice. I believe it’s due to lack of visual references and complete reliance on instruments. Also small size attitude indicators where you can barely see pitch (unlike modern PFD), lack of AOA indicators in 99% of smaller GA aircraft. Directors like following requires different flying techniques I believe Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precog Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Looks like Wags came in a bit low. How is glideslope judged for a carrier and field landing? 3 degrees on the fpm? Visually estimated? Check out my 'real world' video series [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) I’m not that “big” to change anything myself. It’s been a common practice. I believe it’s due to lack of visual references and complete reliance on instruments. Also small size attitude indicators where you can barely see pitch (unlike modern PFD), lack of AOA indicators in 99% of smaller GA aircraft. Directors like following requires different flying techniques I believe I see, but this usually works only for small single engined GA planes. Once you are flying twins and anything heavier/faster, it's easier (and common practise) to stick to one method. AoA indicators don't play a role because it makes zero difference if you fly the correct speed or the correct AoA during the approach. The advantage AoA flying is that you don't need to know your precise actual weight and hence you don't need to figure out the corresponding correct approach speed. Edited February 27, 2018 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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