Feature request: Non linear option for non ffb sticks

A pleasure to have you here for sure. Good to see you're doing well.

I must have been unclear. This is a feature for non ffb sticks. I have a Virpil as well, great stick. The thing is, that you only have full deflection available in the cat when the virtual stick is trimmed to a certain point. Trim forward and you don't have full pull available, and vice versa. just with any A/C in DCS except F-5, which scales the axis when you have trimmed out of center. That way full deflection of your joystick always corresponds to full deflection in game. Sounds counter intuitive, but really isn't.

 

Cheers

Haven't check myself but if true I want it too and frankly, it should be done like that from the start.

@Victory: the option guys ask for has nothing to do with making flying easier or with the need to trim the aircraft - it's for having full stick range available at hand all the time, no matter the trim position.

...

 

@Victory: the option guys ask for has nothing to do with making flying easier or with the need to trim the aircraft - it's for having full stick range available at hand all the time, no matter the trim position.

Spot on!

Ok, now we know what you guys mean. We'll look into it, if that is possible, sounds reasonable enough to me.

I'll take a look at this in the debugger, you may be onto something with how the pitch trim is implemented in relation to a spring stick. I think it currently acts as a stab pos offset that may wash out the stick when trim is at the extreme ends of its travel.

Feature request: Non linear option for non ffb sticks

I'll take a look at this in the debugger, you may be onto something with how the pitch trim is implemented in relation to a spring stick. I think it currently acts as a stab pos offset that may wash out the stick when trim is at the extreme ends of its travel.

Hi I opened this post.

My request was not for having a Tomcat without the need for trimming... (Victory...really thanks for your advices for flying the Tomcat, really learnt a lot from you, but I was not requesting for magic trimming like FBW jets).

It was aimed at having an option similar to the f5 with non ffb stick.

It does not eliminate the need for constant trimming, but helps a lot with neutral stick position (that with a force feedback stick moves with the trim similar to real life).

Basically when you trim now, you have some pressure on the stick (for example to keep the level flight) with this system in place when you trim and leave the stick and it go to its physical neutral position (being a spring joystick) the virtual stick in SIM would have a new center point. While the actual implementation makes trimming (I never flown a jet, but I have experience with propeller aircrafts like the sf260) more difficult then in real life (having the need to keep the stick pressed you never know which amount of trimming would be needed). Also as others have said above it retains you the full travel regardless of trim position.

I know that probably my explanation is not the clearest one but maybe if you just try the f5 with and without this option you can see the difference.

Yeay!

Thanks a lot guys!

I’m trying to understand your difficulties and will have a look at the F5 non-linear this evening. I have a non-FFB Virpil stick and base.

In practice, while the stick does move when trimming, the pilot only notices it when doing checks on deck. In flight, trim removes the need for the pilot to hold pressure, the stick doesn’t move during trimming, because the pilot is positioning the stick where it needs to be. It is natural and can be done in formation flight, a few feet from a fight lead. There aren’t pitch bumps or displacements. So far, I find this familiar and natural in the Heatblur sim, especially since the stick forces are so low in a PC controller.

The effect of trim on available stick amplitude is a different problem.

Where are you running out of longitudinal control? I can’t recall ever hitting the pitch stops in the real aircraft, although I do see how a long trim envelope as it relates to and limits pitch through could be an issue.

Pilot interface is fascinating and one of the more difficult and hotly debated issues in aircraft development. Little things, like making the switches different shapes so they can be accessed by feel make a big difference when a pilot is trying to make changes flying in formation or in combat when he or she can’t risk looking inside. One of the limitations of a PC sim to be sure. It takes a lot longer to do most things in a DCS cockpit than it did in real life.

I’m trying to understand your difficulties and will have a look at the F5 non-linear this evening. I have a non-FFB Virpil stick and base.

 

In practice, while the stick does move when trimming, the pilot only notices it when doing checks on deck. In flight, trim removes the need for the pilot to hold pressure, the stick doesn’t move during trimming, because the pilot is positioning the stick where it needs to be. It is natural and can be done in formation flight, a few feet from a fight lead. There aren’t pitch bumps or displacements. So far, I find this familiar and natural in the Heatblur sim, especially since the stick forces are so low in a PC controller.

 

The effect of trim on available stick amplitude is a different problem.

 

Where are you running out of longitudinal control? I can’t recall ever hitting the pitch stops in the real aircraft, although I do see how a long trim envelope as it relates to and limits pitch through could be an issue.

 

Pilot interface is fascinating and one of the more difficult and hotly debated issues in aircraft development. Little things, like making the switches different shapes so they can be accessed by feel make a big difference when a pilot is trying to make changes flying in formation or in combat when he or she can’t risk looking inside. One of the limitations of a PC sim to be sure. It takes a lot longer to do most things in a DCS cockpit than it did in real life.

IRL the stick moves when trimming. your joystick doesn't do that unless it's FFB.

IRL the stick moves when trimming. your joystick doesn't do that unless it's FFB.

Victory is a former Tomcat pilot...I think he knows what happens IRL vs SIM.

Anyway that’s the point...IRL trimming is much easier as you feel the force from the stick and basically it helps the pilot to keep a neutral position.

In sim some help is needed to alleviate this lack of physical feeling....that is unless TM, VKB or someone else will produce a serious FFB stick, with heavier forces

Victory is a former Tomcat pilot...I think he knows what happens IRL vs SIM.

Anyway that’s the point...IRL trimming is much easier as you feel the force from the stick and basically it helps the pilot to keep a neutral position.

In sim some help is needed to alleviate this lack of physical feeling....that is unless TM, VKB or someone else will produce a serious FFB stick, with heavier forces

I know he is. Just wanted to point out what the issue is. Meant no disrespect.

Having flown this nice module for a while now, I have come to the conclussion that I don't need non linear controls for the F-14. There is something with the way the trim works in this module that is different and better working or more intuitive, than the F-5, MiG-29 and other ones.

I therefor no longer wish for a non linear option. Just keep it like it is.