Feature request: Non linear option for non ffb sticks

Hi, i love the Tomcat module (i also bought a vfx grip for it) but unfortunately I cannot use it very well.

For example i am having hard time also in doing basic level flight....do a case 1 recovery following the numbers is nearly impossible to me (74/75 with the Hornet on the bankler’s trainer mix...no more then 30 with the cat).

I know the difference between fbw aircraft and non fbw, and i also know that trimming is life, but I cannot get used to it (are 9 months i am trying to learn it).

Today i was thinking to this option that the f5 has and that makes life easier avoiding the issues that we have with non force feedback sticks...the option i am talking about is non linear axis that helps you when trimming and when you move the stick back to center keeps the “new center”.

It is explained better here:

Nonlinear control, best idea ever!

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=74365&share_tid=206123&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Eeagle%2Eru%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D206123&share_type=t&link_source=app

Could please heatblur consider adding something like that?

Thanks

I'll have to ask fat creason if that is possible and makes sense for the Tomcat, since the Tomcat doesnt trim flight surfaces, but the actual stick position. OTOH because of that, it could be even more helpful in some situations, but I wouldnt want to pass judgement yet.

I think I never toyed around with the non linear trim in the F5. But I have a feeling, that contrary to the F5, in the Tomcat it could create odd habits if the stick range gives you more stick time so to speak. say you trim almost zero in the Tomcat, your stick will stand almost all the way forward. So you wouldnt move it much to move it the rest down, when needed, but now if you have it unlinear, that direct input reflex you sometimes need in the Tomcat to move the stick immediately back again, would now require more range than moving the actual stick. Means, non linear, you would unlikely develop the habit of moving your actual stick full forward for its last inch in game, and then move it all the way back center, to counter it. This sounds actually even more confusing, or obfuscating the fm to me, than is the fact, that non FFB sticks do not stay in place, when we trim the tomcat stick in game.

But, before we do all that (I will say it is rather unlikely), maybe I can help you with her handling anyway.

What stick do you use? What deadzones do you have? What curves have you set?

Feature request: Non linear option for non ffb sticks

I have the virpil warbrd...and the vfx grip.

I have no dead zone and about curves i tried -12 +12 and no curves.

A major issue for me is keeping level flight both leveled and during maneuvers (case 1 is an example, but also a simple turn)...if for a second i move the sight...for example for operate some switch or read some instruments I immediately gain or lose altitude.

I try hard to trim but it seems impossible to achieve a stable flight.

Thanks

A major issue for me is keeping level flight both leveled and during maneuvers (case 1 is an example, but also a simple turn)...if for a second i move the sight...for example for operate some switch or read some instruments I immediately gain or lose altitude.

I try hard to trim but it seems impossible to achieve a stable flight.

Maybe your expectations are too high. It's not designed to be hands-free level flying Airbus. During cruise you can use Auto Pilot switch to keep the current attitude and make small corrections with the stick. Otherwise you hand control it every time and trim along without thinking. It gets better and more precise with stick time and experience. During maneuvers remember the rudder needs your constant attention too.

Set the curve to around 5 ish, let us start from there (you have a good stick, so keep it around linear, our fm allows for that). Make sure you have a small deadzone, or let us say, a deadzone large enough to account for your unwanted hand/stick movement, but have none, if this isnt an issue for you.

Now, first thing to train is not fly level, but fly a perceived straight and level line, in a sense, ofc the goal is to get either climb or dive to be minimal, but what I mean is: don't look at your VVI or alitimeter for the time being. Simply look at the horizon and try to fly so, that you keep it center. First: level, then: in a turn, then: in a turn pulling 2, 3 and 4 Gs. I'll explain:

What you will notice now, is that she basically always wants to climb, unless you trim her negative, in which case she will really start pulling down. and it seems like she doesnt know any middle ground. up or down, all the time. I am exaggerating, but especially at cruise speed she was known to have to be retrimmed all the time and to be unstable in level flight.

So, now, what you lack, is the feeling (muscle memory) to constantly counter these "oscillations", and be so atuned to them in your muscle memory that your inputs get as small as possible, but also that you realize her tendencies before they actually happen.

The one thing you have to learn here, in my opinion from the little you told me, is: do not try to fly the aircraft with trim. That is in general a no no in flying. Trim is only being used to ease off stick force. But you have to fly the aircraft with your stick, 100% of the time, especially in the Tomcat. In Sims however, we develop very bad habits, especially when we are used to simulated FBW with even autotrim and such and such. It makes sim flying rather comfortable and easy. It lets you put flying into the back of your conscience, and concentrate on the boom you are about to deliver. But the Tomcat is an aviatior's plane, in real life as in the sim. This means: you need to adjust your mindset. And the mindset is: fly with the stick, trim only to ease off stick force!

One of the oddest things for most sim pilots who fly out of their wrist (desk sticks), is that when you pull up and want to level, it is not enough to let go off the stick, you have to actually push it actively back forward. That can feel weird, have we been used to the "let go and it will level" habit before. Very weird. And we are comfy ppl, all of us, and we do not like leaving our comfort zone. So whenever I fly with folks in the Tomcat, this is one of the prime things I spot. She shows you, no, she screams at you: hey, look! I am climbing! Do something! But the pilot just does not move the stick. At all. Well: she will continue to climb. And this goes on all the time, every single moment, just that when you see someone fly beautifully level and coordinated in his turns, it means that it is going on on such a small level, that it is barely noticeable.

So: start big. Up and down, like a "madman", when you start the level training. Allow yourself to get a feel for your active stick range back and forward, bring it in, pull it back, gradually slowly, see how she climbs, and then push it back down, yes negative G if necessary, stick forward and see how you counter that, but you must always counter it, that is the practice. And then get smaller, and smaller, and smaller, and smaller yet. And keep doing it. It will not come to you overnight, but if you keep at it, it will make "click" soon enough, I can promise you that.

I can assure you, it can be flown nicely with any stick, if you have adopted that mindset. Breathe and have a lose grip on the stick for maximum feel. You should be able to fly a case 1 with 2 fingers, and I assure I can, it wont be just as beautiful and precise, and thats not what you should train for, but that is how light your grip should be. But the most important thing is: you can never let go, never give up to work your throttle and stick at all times. Even if barely, but work it you must. Only AP engaged lets you let go of that, and even then you have to work your throttle.

And what you said about "taking your eyes off", is much like when you start driving a car: remember how often you hear "eyes on the road" in the beginning? Because you do not have developed yet the sense to drive straight without looking at the road. In time, you eat, phone and roll a cigarette while driving 250 on the autobahn, if you catch my drift (srsly, pls dont do that irl). It is much like that in the Tomcat, only that you didnt have a driving teacher so far, and most likely never developed that proper feel for her because of it.

I won't have time before christmas, but after the holidays, sometime in January, I'll fly with you, if you want, and take a look and help you correct bad habits and dial down the input you need to get a good grip of her.

Now, this has been a wall of text, alright. But don't be scared off by it. This wall of text makes it look harder than it is. It just requires the right practice, which in your case I'd "prescribe" as follows:

1. Get a feel for its range of stick movement, while pulling back and pushing forward again, from up to down and back all the way. The only rule here: every up movement has to be countered by a down movement and vice versa. Do it fast, do it slow, do it very slow, do it hard, do it smoothly, in short: get a feel for it.

2. Rinse and repeat and every time you do it, get smaller and smaller, until you get so small, that you basically fly level. (ofc, at one point you won't have to counter, what you do not induce, so your inputs will not only get smaller, but less, and trim will become more helpful, with small, few stick inputs and small re-trims when necessary. this is a heads up, this won't happen for a while...)

3. Now try to fly level, by concentrating on the horizon, dont look at your instruments, just fly more and think about it less and less, keep the horizon level is all, do it until you are happy with it, make it your second nature. Trim to ease off stick force if necessary, but fly with your stick.

4. Now do all that level elegance you just learned in coordinated turns, just level, then with Gs. 2 Gs, 2.5 Gs, 3 Gs, 3.5 Gs, 4Gs, 4.5 Gs if you like up to 6.5, but note: the more Gs you pull, the less you will train your basic stick work, but more advanced energy management. My advice. Go to up to 4.5 for this exercise, not more. And note what she does at each G setting, the rattle, the buffet. Remember it: it will serve you later on as a second G-Meter... Additionally, train coordinated turns at high AOAs (this is the final step though!), and learn to use rudder instead of bank for situations where you want to avoid roll reversal.

5. Once, and only once you feel comfy with all that, start incorporating a cockpit instrument scan, that makes sense to you, look level, look at the altimeter, look level, look at the speed indicator, look level, look at the G meter... etc etc... And then start taking this into your account as well. It is totally fine that you peaked on your instruments in the previous steps, it is good even if you did. But now we look at them with more purpose: you see the altimeter dive, pull back, like you just learned and so on. At the end, putting all this together will make you an extremely aware pilot. And only aware pilots are good pilots.

6. Lastly, "100%-exact-all-the-time-robot-like-AP-like-level-flight" can never be achieved. So don't beat yourself up about it. Rather: set your standard by setting parameters. In the beginning: try staying within +/- 200 feet of your target altitude. (note, after step 4, when you start incorporating gauges into your workflow again), then set your parameters to +/- 100 feet, then 50 feet and eventually 10 feet. Don't get mad if you break them, and give up, and go "aaargh". No. Correct the mistake, bring it back into your parameters. Once you are at 10 feet, depending on the situation, you will break it a lot. No matter how good you are, and that is ok. It is a guideline. And say in a dogfight it matters feck anything anyway, but what will help, is all that stick feeling you will have gained through that training.

Hope it helps! Have fun, as always, the journey is the goal. :)

Thanks for your reply.

I will try to read it carefully and try your advices.

Starting from the curve settings and the level flight training you suggested.

As a final note I think the mayor issues we have as simmers is just that our sticks don’t move.

As a final note I think the mayor issues we have as simmers is just that our sticks don’t move.

Having a stick extension is a huge step forward in control and realism terms, but that does limit your mounting options.

Having a stick extension is a huge step forward in control and realism terms, but that does limit your mounting options.

I have a 5 cm extension....more is not possible both for the warbrd base and my mounting setup

I have a 5 cm extension....more is not possible both for the warbrd base and my mounting setup

 

You have a perfect setup, buddy, really nice! Flying from the shoulder is much better than flying from the wrist, however it could take you a bit longer to really get it into flesh and blood, it is just more muscles connected to your inputs. But don't give up, if you do the above, you'll become kick ass in no time.

And feel free to poke me anytime if you are stuck somewhere or have questions or need further help! Happy flying, Sir!

I did the same thing. Started to fly DCS, got FC3, then the Tomcat. It came natural to me though. I was doing carrier landings (in VR) on after 3 hours flight time. Took longer to memorize the startup than it took to learn to land lol. Like mentioned above, you have to fly her constantly. It seems like you're over correcting and causing pilot induced oscillation. Which is what I'm dealing with atm learning to refuel in midair. If you think landing is hard.... oh boy lol. Keep doing the training and instant action missions. Then progress to the campaign. Don't worry about weapon systems until you can take off, fly a pattern, and land.

If you want an easier plane to fly and come back to the Tomcat later, try the F-16. She's super easy in comparison.

My setup. VR is rift s.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

If you want, we can hop online into a server and fly around. I can fly behind you and see what you're doing, we can compare control settings in real time over voice, and we can practice landing on a carrier and on a runway. And maybe some formation flying. Which maps do you have?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Just wanted to add to the discussion that if the comparison here is with the F-5, then adding a non-linear stick option to the F-14 would be realistic.

I have the T-38 (trainer version of the F-5) for another PC sim, and while I never pay attention to what my stick is doing while actively flying, when you press the takeoff trim button on the ground, it moves the stick in the same way that @IronMike says the F-14 trims.

You have a perfect setup, buddy, really nice! Flying from the shoulder is much better than flying from the wrist, however it could take you a bit longer to really get it into flesh and blood, it is just more muscles connected to your inputs. But don't give up, if you do the above, you'll become kick ass in no time.

 

And feel free to poke me anytime if you are stuck somewhere or have questions or need further help! Happy flying, Sir!

Thanks really appreciated sir...

Thanks all of you guys you are awesome

Feature request: Non linear option for non ffb sticks

Guys just an update, with your advices i improved a lot in basic handling....I really developed bad habits with fbw jets....it tends to behave like when i flew with the sf260 just much more fast.

So doing some basics exercises i tend know to be able to anticipate the cat behavior (of course with real g and a force feedback stick would be much easier).

While i still need to improve a lot i was able to improve my bankler’s case 1 trainer scores...

That's awesome news, buddy! Really glad to hear that. Keep at it, it will soon start getting really good, and oh so much more fun even. :-)

Hi IronMike,

I’ve stumbled upon this post while looking for some info on my newly purchased Tomcat, and it made me really smile and feel so satisfied to see a developer so dedicated and devoted to their community with such an elaborate and whole hearted explanations!! :)

This is really the type of support and dedication I would expect and love to see,

but it is hardly a surprise considering the amazing, in all aspects, Tomcat you’ve created....

I just feel bad for not buying it sooner now... it is by far in a league of its own!

Thank you for this beloved module, your dedication and support!:thumbup:

Cheers,

Ron

Set the curve to around 5 ish, let us start from there (you have a good stick, so keep it around linear, our fm allows for that). Make sure you have a small deadzone, or let us say, a deadzone large enough to account for your unwanted hand/stick movement, but have none, if this isnt an issue for you.

 

Now, first thing to train is not fly level, but fly a perceived straight and level line, in a sense, ofc the goal is to get either climb or dive to be minimal, but what I mean is: don't look at your VVI or alitimeter for the time being. Simply look at the horizon and try to fly so, that you keep it center. First: level, then: in a turn, then: in a turn pulling 2, 3 and 4 Gs. I'll explain:

 

What you will notice now, is that she basically always wants to climb, unless you trim her negative, in which case she will really start pulling down. and it seems like she doesnt know any middle ground. up or down, all the time. I am exaggerating, but especially at cruise speed she was known to have to be retrimmed all the time and to be unstable in level flight.

 

So, now, what you lack, is the feeling (muscle memory) to constantly counter these "oscillations", and be so atuned to them in your muscle memory that your inputs get as small as possible, but also that you realize her tendencies before they actually happen.

 

The one thing you have to learn here, in my opinion from the little you told me, is: do not try to fly the aircraft with trim. That is in general a no no in flying. Trim is only being used to ease off stick force. But you have to fly the aircraft with your stick, 100% of the time, especially in the Tomcat. In Sims however, we develop very bad habits, especially when we are used to simulated FBW with even autotrim and such and such. It makes sim flying rather comfortable and easy. It lets you put flying into the back of your conscience, and concentrate on the boom you are about to deliver. But the Tomcat is an aviatior's plane, in real life as in the sim. This means: you need to adjust your mindset. And the mindset is: fly with the stick, trim only to ease off stick force!

 

One of the oddest things for most sim pilots who fly out of their wrist (desk sticks), is that when you pull up and want to level, it is not enough to let go off the stick, you have to actually push it actively back forward. That can feel weird, have we been used to the "let go and it will level" habit before. Very weird. And we are comfy ppl, all of us, and we do not like leaving our comfort zone. So whenever I fly with folks in the Tomcat, this is one of the prime things I spot. She shows you, no, she screams at you: hey, look! I am climbing! Do something! But the pilot just does not move the stick. At all. Well: she will continue to climb. And this goes on all the time, every single moment, just that when you see someone fly beautifully level and coordinated in his turns, it means that it is going on on such a small level, that it is barely noticeable.

 

So: start big. Up and down, like a "madman", when you start the level training. Allow yourself to get a feel for your active stick range back and forward, bring it in, pull it back, gradually slowly, see how she climbs, and then push it back down, yes negative G if necessary, stick forward and see how you counter that, but you must always counter it, that is the practice. And then get smaller, and smaller, and smaller, and smaller yet. And keep doing it. It will not come to you overnight, but if you keep at it, it will make "click" soon enough, I can promise you that.

 

I can assure you, it can be flown nicely with any stick, if you have adopted that mindset. Breathe and have a lose grip on the stick for maximum feel. You should be able to fly a case 1 with 2 fingers, and I assure I can, it wont be just as beautiful and precise, and thats not what you should train for, but that is how light your grip should be. But the most important thing is: you can never let go, never give up to work your throttle and stick at all times. Even if barely, but work it you must. Only AP engaged lets you let go of that, and even then you have to work your throttle.

 

And what you said about "taking your eyes off", is much like when you start driving a car: remember how often you hear "eyes on the road" in the beginning? Because you do not have developed yet the sense to drive straight without looking at the road. In time, you eat, phone and roll a cigarette while driving 250 on the autobahn, if you catch my drift (srsly, pls dont do that irl). It is much like that in the Tomcat, only that you didnt have a driving teacher so far, and most likely never developed that proper feel for her because of it.

 

I won't have time before christmas, but after the holidays, sometime in January, I'll fly with you, if you want, and take a look and help you correct bad habits and dial down the input you need to get a good grip of her.

 

Now, this has been a wall of text, alright. But don't be scared off by it. This wall of text makes it look harder than it is. It just requires the right practice, which in your case I'd "prescribe" as follows:

 

1. Get a feel for its range of stick movement, while pulling back and pushing forward again, from up to down and back all the way. The only rule here: every up movement has to be countered by a down movement and vice versa. Do it fast, do it slow, do it very slow, do it hard, do it smoothly, in short: get a feel for it.

 

2. Rinse and repeat and every time you do it, get smaller and smaller, until you get so small, that you basically fly level. (ofc, at one point you won't have to counter, what you do not induce, so your inputs will not only get smaller, but less, and trim will become more helpful, with small, few stick inputs and small re-trims when necessary. this is a heads up, this won't happen for a while...)

 

3. Now try to fly level, by concentrating on the horizon, dont look at your instruments, just fly more and think about it less and less, keep the horizon level is all, do it until you are happy with it, make it your second nature. Trim to ease off stick force if necessary, but fly with your stick.

 

4. Now do all that level elegance you just learned in coordinated turns, just level, then with Gs. 2 Gs, 2.5 Gs, 3 Gs, 3.5 Gs, 4Gs, 4.5 Gs if you like up to 6.5, but note: the more Gs you pull, the less you will train your basic stick work, but more advanced energy management. My advice. Go to up to 4.5 for this exercise, not more. And note what she does at each G setting, the rattle, the buffet. Remember it: it will serve you later on as a second G-Meter... Additionally, train coordinated turns at high AOAs (this is the final step though!), and learn to use rudder instead of bank for situations where you want to avoid roll reversal.

 

5. Once, and only once you feel comfy with all that, start incorporating a cockpit instrument scan, that makes sense to you, look level, look at the altimeter, look level, look at the speed indicator, look level, look at the G meter... etc etc... And then start taking this into your account as well. It is totally fine that you peaked on your instruments in the previous steps, it is good even if you did. But now we look at them with more purpose: you see the altimeter dive, pull back, like you just learned and so on. At the end, putting all this together will make you an extremely aware pilot. And only aware pilots are good pilots.

6. Lastly, "100%-exact-all-the-time-robot-like-AP-like-level-flight" can never be achieved. So don't beat yourself up about it. Rather: set your standard by setting parameters. In the beginning: try staying within +/- 200 feet of your target altitude. (note, after step 4, when you start incorporating gauges into your workflow again), then set your parameters to +/- 100 feet, then 50 feet and eventually 10 feet. Don't get mad if you break them, and give up, and go "aaargh". No. Correct the mistake, bring it back into your parameters. Once you are at 10 feet, depending on the situation, you will break it a lot. No matter how good you are, and that is ok. It is a guideline. And say in a dogfight it matters feck anything anyway, but what will help, is all that stick feeling you will have gained through that training.

 

Hope it helps! Have fun, as always, the journey is the goal. :)

Hi IronMike,

I’ve stumbled upon this post while looking for some info on my newly purchased Tomcat, and it made me really smile and feel so satisfied to see a developer so dedicated and devoted to their community with such an elaborate and whole hearted explanations!! :)

This is really the type of support and dedication I would expect and love to see,

but it is hardly a surprise considering the amazing, in all aspects, Tomcat you’ve created....

I just feel bad for not buying it sooner now... it is by far in a league of its own!

Thank you for this beloved module, your dedication and support!:thumbup:

 

Cheers,

Ron

My pleasure, and thank you for your purchase! I hope you enjoy it a lot. If you need anything, let us know!

Best, Aleks

@Ironmike

Hi Aleks. You really should try the F-5 with the non linear option on. For some reason it just makes sense that the limit of your virtual stick travel always corresponds with the physical one. It makes BFM much more intuitive when you dont have to worry about trim while fighting.

I really hope that you will consider this option for this all time great module.

Cheers

@Ironmike

Hi Aleks. You really should try the F-5 with the non linear option on. For some reason it just makes sense that the limit of your virtual stick travel always corresponds with the physical one. It makes BFM much more intuitive when you dont have to worry about trim while fighting.

I really hope that you will consider this option for this all time great module.

 

Cheers

Good old Svend, such a pleasure to see that you are still around, bud!

I personally cannot try it, I only own virpil, vkb, x55, wh and logitech 3d, all of which I use for testing, but none of them are FFB.

I will ask Fat Creason to take a loot.

@Ironmike

It makes BFM much more intuitive when you dont have to worry about trim while fighting.

Cheers

Not quite sure what you mean by this? You always will need to worry about trim in the F-14. Right now the FFB stick pos corresponds directly with the physical position you see in game.

With how is non FFB stick implemented right now you do not have full motion authority of your stick as you should have.

If I trim to the center of the controls indicator (ctrl+enter) I can deflect horizontal stabilizers up 33° which is correct, but can not go past 7° down on in cockpit indicator I should be able to go 10° down.

If I trim down to lets say half down on the control indicator (ctrl+enter) I can get full 10° deflection down, but can not go to 33° up anymore, Im limited to 29° up as shown on in cockpit indicator (and by physical position of HS).

Same goes other way around If I trim half way up I can get to the 33° up mark, but am limited by about 4° up by pushing the stick all the way.

I basically do not have full range of motion of in cockpit stick and by that not a full range of horizontal stabilizer motion. Is that how it should be? Because that sound weird to me.

 

Hope it helps! Have fun, as always, the journey is the goal. :)

All very well written. IronMike knows his stuff.

Really does come down to mindset. There has long been a phenomenon in gaming/simming for users to demand that developers make the task “easier”. That is taken completely out of the equation when that isn’t an option. When the choice is “here’s the aircraft, this is how it works, either deal with it, hack the program, or go drive ships for the black shoe Navy”, it tends tends to focus the mind.

It isn’t easy flying a desktop sim, and it take the same approach as learning to fly a real aircraft, starting small, breaking down basic maneuvers and mastering them. You guys are jumping into complex aircraft without the benefit of flying conventionally handling trainers. It’s tough.

The display requests are similar. We get guys who struggle to fly airliners with analog gauges because they came up flying Garmin 1000’s in Cessnas at Emory Riddle and in RJ’s later. So they initially whinge, but in due course, they embrace them, and end up loving the advantages of analog gauges revealing rates and trends.

Trimming is a natural activity in the vast majority of aircraft. It’s done to relieve control pressures, but you don’t have any real level of such pressures in your controllers, so you get lazy, and perhaps don’t see a need to trim. Big mistake. You want to constantly take your hand off of the controls and see if the aircraft is stable.

Jet’s require fine, precision control inputs because of their velocities. Think about the resultant vector amplitude is when one leg is 600 knots in length. A half degree error in pitch results in hundreds of feet, if not thousands in vertical speed. It’s a finger tip process.

One of the techniques that Navy pilots immediately have to sort, is setting up their knee board to place their right hand at the correct height on the stick to enable finger tip or small wrist inputs with the seat positioned at the proper height. If your arm in hanging in space while you are trying to fly the sim, try setting up something to support it so you can fly with only your wrist.

The mindset should be, I’m going to master this module as it is. Once you own it, you’ll be amazed at the progress you make. You don’t have to love everything about a platform, no aircraft is perfect, but you have stop fighting, and learn to “make friends with it”.

Good old Svend, such a pleasure to see that you are still around, bud!

 

I personally cannot try it, I only own virpil, vkb, x55, wh and logitech 3d, all of which I use for testing, but none of them are FFB.

 

I will ask Fat Creason to take a loot.

A pleasure to have you here for sure. Good to see you're doing well.

I must have been unclear. This is a feature for non ffb sticks. I have a Virpil as well, great stick. The thing is, that you only have full deflection available in the cat when the virtual stick is trimmed to a certain point. Trim forward and you don't have full pull available, and vice versa. just with any A/C in DCS except F-5, which scales the axis when you have trimmed out of center. That way full deflection of your joystick always corresponds to full deflection in game. Sounds counter intuitive, but really isn't.

Cheers

Not quite sure what you mean by this? You always will need to worry about trim in the F-14. Right now the FFB stick pos corresponds directly with the physical position you see in game.

Must have been unclear. I'm talking about non FFB sticks. Sorry.

Cheers