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New damage model


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Awesome news about the DM. I agree, it would be unfair to release the Spit with proper DM, only to face "invincible" 109s. Once every plane has the new DM though, it will be the biggest step forward I can think of now.

 

One question: Will the MIG15 also get a proper DM? Curently it's a flying tank against the .50 cals of the Sabre. Even if it smokes, it just keeps going.

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It would make sense for at least the MiG-15bis and F-86F to get the new damage model as well. In the missile combat era it's perhaps a bit less important, since missiles tend to be more all or nothing than machine guns, but it wouldn't hurt either, especially for ground pounders. Also, will the new damage model also work for AI aircraft? I had an instance when I shot off both horizontal stabilizers of an AI Sabre and he was still turning with me as if nothing happened.

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Awesome news about the DM. I agree, it would be unfair to release the Spit with proper DM, only to face "invincible" 109s. Once every plane has the new DM though, it will be the biggest step forward I can think of now.

 

One question: Will the MIG15 also get a proper DM? Curently it's a flying tank against the .50 cals of the Sabre. Even if it smokes, it just keeps going.

I think it is for Belsimtek to answer. But:

Some answers:

- DM is a brand new system which could be applied to any unit in the game.

 

So there is always hope :3

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Good to hear that the chaps from Clod are working on it I personally think that the damage model was one of the most impressive I have seen.

 

I actually set up a mission with various random damages so I could practice landing a stricken aircraft.

 

I recall that this helped me nurse a 109 back home from Folkestone with its elevators shot away I used the trim to control the aircraft until I could crash land back in France :D good times being chased by Spitfires smelling blood... or was it engine oil! ;)

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Good to hear that the chaps from Clod are working on it I personally think that the damage model was one of the most impressive I have seen.

 

The way I understand it they aren't from the Clod team, but from the old original IL2 team?

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  • ED Team
Is it just me, or is there some heat between you and VEAO?

 

 

 

 

Nothing special. This is the BASIC REQUIREMENTS for any 3rd Party model. The document from ED regarding the basic requirements for ANY 3rd Party FM is available on the forum.

And ANY model will be tested, especially if this model is planned to be in line at the DCS arena as an counterpart to DCS/BST modules.

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Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Are there any details more, to share with us?

 

Say, plans to:

a) simulate penetration of several modules by a single projectile

b) introduce altered impact behavior, depended on the load (HE/AP) => surface/submerged explosions, ricochets where applicable

c) internal/external fuel tank flame bursts or varied leakage rates depended on hits number/their nature

d) hydraulic fails - drop out chassis, etc

e) stun effects on the pilot (HE "close call" impact)

f) realistic dynamics for damaged planes, including their rapid re-balancing due to pierced tanks/any massive parts departed. Inability to withstand high Gs for their frame any more (where it's appropriate)

g) inflammation that gradually affects plane

 

A digression: I'm not poking developers to do this right from the beginning in some stealthy manner - just wonder what depth are you willing to take?

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  • ED Team
Are there any details more, to share with us?

 

Say, plans to:

a) simulate penetration of several modules by a single projectile

b) introduce altered impact behavior, depended on the load (HE/AP) => surface/submerged explosions, ricochets where applicable

c) internal/external fuel tank flame bursts or varied leakage rates depended on hits number/their nature

d) hydraulic fails - drop out chassis, etc

e) stun effects on the pilot (HE "close call" impact)

f) realistic dynamics for damaged planes, including their rapid re-balancing due to pierced tanks/any massive parts departed. Inability to withstand high Gs for their frame any more (where it's appropriate)

g) inflammation that gradually affects plane

 

A digression: I'm not poking developers to do this right from the beginning in some stealthy manner - just wonder what depth are you willing to take?

 

a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

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Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

 

Awesome :thumbup:

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

 

This is incredible!

 

Thank you :thumbup:

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First of all, we hope that undamaged FM of 3rd Parties will meet the requirements of DCS standards...

 

Agreed! ED sets a level of quality that is stunning, and I am glad that 3rd party devs will have to adhere to that. :thumbup:

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When we talking about model itself the new model is an addition to current one. So the main difference in number of components and accuracy of their positions. Plus improvements in damage states and their spread (for example fire) from one component to another.

 

Excellent. Will wings bend before they break off? Will it be possible for fires to extinguish?

 

These would be great to finally see corrected. I'm not sure every taxi accident resulted in a fiery explosion in RL.

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  • ED Team
Is it just me, or is there some heat between you and VEAO?

 

I dont think it was meant to target any one team, just that the standards for FM are high, and ED is going to do a better job making sure those standards are met. Good for us, good for ED and good for the 3rd Parties.

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  • ED Team
a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

 

SO I assume loss of fluids will be modelled as well. Not only visually but physically as well, weight and effect. Leaky oil, gas, coolant, and the effects of losing those. Would be nice to have the P-51 have its scoop tore up, and have the engine fail shortly after due to loss of coolant.

 

And as we talked about, if you scare the pilot too much, the loss of urine :D

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I dont think it was meant to target any one team, just that the standards for FM are high, and ED is going to do a better job making sure those standards are met. Good for us, good for ED and good for the 3rd Parties.

 

+1

 

I can't wait for VEAOs P-40 and Spitfire XIV :pilotfly:

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8<

 

And as we talked about, if you scare the pilot too much, the loss of urine :D

 

That's why all the seat-shells have those little hole drilled into them, silly

 

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I dont think it was meant to target any one team, just that the standards for FM are high, and ED is going to do a better job making sure those standards are met. Good for us, good for ED and good for the 3rd Parties.

 

It's great for everybody in my books. No beef on our side.

We want to make sure that the highest quality module's are built for DCS also, as do all 3rd party developers.

 

And to be clear, I respect Yo-Yo's experience and views very much. We had a good chat at Legends last weekend.

 

In terms of pilot testing, any pilot will tell you that the "books" will only get you so far on a flight model, it's the nuances of the aircraft that make it unique so to get it real you need that feedback.

And everyone wants realism right....

Stick a pilot in a moving flight chair with a VR headset on and you can increase the feedback ten-fold.

 

 

Back on topic:

We look forward to receiving the updated DM model from ED to hook into.

 

Chris

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Glad to listen about all that news, DCS is getting hotter :beer:.

 

And ANY model will be tested, especially if this model is planned to be in line at the DCS arena as an counterpart to DCS/BST modules.
Don't want to be nitpicky, just curious, you mean "DCS/BST" just as partners that used to be a single company so they have similar standards or "DCS/BST" suggesting Belsimtek is also getting into WWII stuff? :huh: :shocking: :D

 

S!

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  • ED Team
Glad to listen about all that news, DCS is getting hotter :beer:.

 

Don't want to be nitpicky, just curious, you mean "DCS/BST" just as partners that used to be a single company so they have similar standards or "DCS/BST" suggesting Belsimtek is also getting into WWII stuff? :huh: :shocking: :D

 

S!

 

He is only saying that FM standards should meet those set by ED & BST.

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He is only saying that FM standards should meet those set by ED & BST.
Had to try, so we are having so many good news lately :lol: :smilewink:.

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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