Effect wear off on you?

I finally got around to trying DCS with my Vive Pro that I modified with non-Fresnel lenses and displays I swapped in from an Odyssey+ that have the SDE minimization film on the OLED panels.

When I first started playing, that feeling of being "in" the cockpit was truly amazing and jaw dropping.

After a while though, does the honeymoon end? I swapped back to my really nice TrackIR5 and 55" 4K OLED setup and some huge deficiencies of DCS VR became apparent:

1. The constant swapping from 90 FPS to 45 FPS even on my EXTREMELY powerful PC got on my nerves.

2. With VR being 1:1, having to completely turn my head around to check my six is tiresome. Being a real military helicopter pilot, I'm no longer 25 anymore and it wears on my already well worn neck. Having like the 1:2 head turn of TrackIR is a nice relief.

3. Being able to see the real world, controls/keyboard/mouse, look out the window has its benefits. Less eye strain with regular setup.

4. How hard it is to read dials and gauges in VR.

5. How incredible hard it is to spot aircraft and keep track of them in VR.

I just think that VR isn't mature enough clarity/performance wise for me, even having THE fastest gear on the market.

I feel like my regular setup makes me more competitive and wears on me less, even though some of the "WoW" factors is removed.

Anyone else experience a diminished DCS VR Honeymoon?

Yes, I have felt it. I am thinking it's the lack of hand cockpit interactions. The constant fumbling around throws it off. I guess I have no muscle memory! So I am working building a physical cockpit.

I actually miss the first time wow experience.

My brain has gotten accustomed now so much so that that initial sense of vertigo, sense of height/falling and more has wore off.

I played epic roller Coaster recently and did not express any fear of height/falling going down those rails. I still remember my first roller coaster with Samsung goggle vr, I was screaming and grabbing tightly to the chair.

So yes, the honeymoon has thinned out but nevertheless, VR is still my preferred choice. 2D flightsim has been relegated permanently.

I've still got a foot in both camps.

I've just bought the AV-8B so assigning controls and key bindings on the warthog and UFC controls while checking the manual and watching tutorials is a task best performed in 2D.

On the other hand, It's taken me a year to become proficient with the A10C to the point that muscle memory means I can enjoy the full VR experience including using 2 x Thrustmaster MFCD, UFC, and Warthog Hotas.

I'm not sure there will ever be an affordable solution for us PC based simmers, I fly in the real world and in multi million pound simulators, and trying to condense that experience into anything that fits on a desktop in a spare bedroom is a very big ask.

I finally got around to trying DCS with my Vive Pro that I modified with non-Fresnel lenses and displays I swapped in from an Odyssey+ that have the SDE minimization film on the OLED panels.

 

When I first started playing, that feeling of being "in" the cockpit was truly amazing and jaw dropping.

 

After a while though, does the honeymoon end? I swapped back to my really nice TrackIR5 and 55" 4K OLED setup and some huge deficiencies of DCS VR became apparent:

 

1. The constant swapping from 90 FPS to 45 FPS even on my EXTREMELY powerful PC got on my nerves.

2. With VR being 1:1, having to completely turn my head around to check my six is tiresome. Being a real military helicopter pilot, I'm no longer 25 anymore and it wears on my already well worn neck. Having like the 1:2 head turn of TrackIR is a nice relief.

3. Being able to see the real world, controls/keyboard/mouse, look out the window has its benefits. Less eye strain with regular setup.

4. How hard it is to read dials and gauges in VR.

5. How incredible hard it is to spot aircraft and keep track of them in VR.

 

I just think that VR isn't mature enough clarity/performance wise for me, even having THE fastest gear on the market.

 

I feel like my regular setup makes me more competitive and wears on me less, even though some of the "WoW" factors is removed.

 

Anyone else experience a diminished DCS VR Honeymoon?

Nope. The realism and immersion has definitely not worn off. I actually enjoy the physical sensation of having the bend around to check six and I'm no spring chicken. But it adds to the realism. I think the thing that is hardest if you're in a fixed seat is there are no canopy rails to push against like there is in a real cockpit. I am toying with the idea of building a sort of VR sim pit that has physical rails for just that purpose. It makes a HUGE difference in neck and back strain if you do it correctly.

I have the Reverb to replace the HTC Vive pro, and the difference in all of the issue you mention is SOOO much better. Its still not a 4K HD flat screen. But its fricken close. I have no trouble reading displays or dials and the world outside is crystal clear and frame rates smooth.

I could never in a million years go back to a flat screen. The WOW is the whole point. A flat screen is just a game in your office. VR is as close to actually being in the cockpit as you can get.

For me no, I still have that wow factor every time I fire up DCS in VR, which is all I have done since Jan 2017.

For me no, I still have that wow factor every time I fire up DCS in VR, which is all I have done since Jan 2017.

For me no, I still have that wow factor every time I fire up DCS in VR, which is all I have done since Jan 2017.

Same here. I can't get enough of it, even though there obviously are flaws

Some people may call me a VR fanboy :P but I don't care..

Almost every of my dcs sessions, I feel so lucky for being able to enjoy the VR experience and sit inside a cockpit

Nope. The realism and immersion has definitely not worn off. I actually enjoy the physical sensation of having the bend around to check six and I'm no spring chicken. But it adds to the realism. I think the thing that is hardest if you're in a fixed seat is there are no canopy rails to push against like there is in a real cockpit. I am toying with the idea of building a sort of VR sim pit that has physical rails for just that purpose. It makes a HUGE difference in neck and back strain if you do it correctly.

 

I have the Reverb to replace the HTC Vive pro, and the difference in all of the issue you mention is SOOO much better. Its still not a 4K HD flat screen. But its fricken close. I have no trouble reading displays or dials and the world outside is crystal clear and frame rates smooth.

 

I could never in a million years go back to a flat screen. The WOW is the whole point. A flat screen is just a game in your office. VR is as close to actually being in the cockpit as you can get.

I had a Reverb and honestly I wasn't that impressed. It wasn't nearly as large of an image clarity/quality increase as I was expecting. And the image contrast and colors were very flat with those cheap LCD panels.

That and also the inferior inside out tracking combined with needing bright lights on during the night so the HMD can track properly, I sent it back.

I really need an Xtal..

After a year in VR , the only time i use a monitor is for DCS or PC maintenance .

Still getting the wow factor from VR. The 1:1 head movement, along with the depth perception, makes missile/gun evasion a snap compared to the pancake. Those same things also made it so I actually enjoy dogfighting. Just couldn't get into a never-ending turning fight where I had no spatial awareness on a monitor. With the Reverb, I can easily read all of my instruments and haven't really had issues with being able to spot and track other aircraft. I have even managed to eyeball my Mavericks all the way to their targets. Its also pretty cool to squint and instinctively put my hand up to shield my eyes from the sun or its reflections off the canopy.

After almost 25 yrs of flat screen air combat flying. VR is the only way I will flight sim anymore. The advantages out weigh the disadvantages I think.

I finally got around to trying DCS with my Vive Pro that I modified with non-Fresnel lenses and displays I swapped in from an Odyssey+ that have the SDE minimization film on the OLED panels.

 

When I first started playing, that feeling of being "in" the cockpit was truly amazing and jaw dropping.

 

After a while though, does the honeymoon end? I swapped back to my really nice TrackIR5 and 55" 4K OLED setup and some huge deficiencies of DCS VR became apparent:

 

1. The constant swapping from 90 FPS to 45 FPS even on my EXTREMELY powerful PC got on my nerves.

I don’t really see what you mean By changing from 90 to 45fps. Ive got the Oculus Rift since > 3 years and Reverb since 3 months. Both of these do 90hz and when seeing 45fps in DCS its actually 90 new frames each second. I think ASW and reprojection work quite ok.

Do you suffer from ghosting? Or is do yo have stutter? Even if yuo have the best hardware, the settings in DCS can not be set on highest settings, that will get you stutter because the computer can not deliver 45fps(sometimes it say 45fps but its not smooth gaming, then you need to lower the settings to get it smooth if you get disturbed from it.)

I’d say, if you have a desent PC and take some time do perform the settings it should work ok. Might be a bit lower graphic settings than you’d expect but you’ll get smooth gaming.

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]

2. With VR being 1:1, having to completely turn my head around to check my six is tiresome. Being a real military helicopter pilot, I'm no longer 25 anymore and it wears on my already well worn neck. Having like the 1:2 head turn of TrackIR is a nice relief.

I’m also a active mil pilot, not that long from retirement. My neck is also worn and makes crackling sounds quite often. Still, the VR headset isnt really any weight on the head compared to the flying helmet+NVG+batterys+counterweight. As there is no vibrations or G-force at all I don’t have any problem and I think VR-gaming is more of a mobility training of the neck than A load making problems.

That said, I tried with a NVG counterwieght from work(they’re adaptable number of lead plates) with my oculus rift earlier, just to test if balancing the VR-headset on the head would make any difference and because I have four collegues that got herniated in the neck because of NVG flying in helos.

I didnt really notice any big difference from the counterweight(I think the VR headset is quite lightweight and beacuse I bought the HP Reverb I actuallt forgot about it. I will make a more permanent counterweight, probably 3d print a holder easy to attatch using my lead weights from work.

Did a lot of PC gaming 20-25 year ago, mostly car racing but also a little flying games.

What got me going again was VR, and for me, without VR I wouldn’t play.

I’m actually much more for VR racing but my gaming friends are more of flying nerds so in the end I seem to end up in DCS anyway.

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]

4. How hard it is to read dials and gauges in VR.

It is to some extrent with the oculus rift but with the Reverb I most of the stuff in cockpit without leaning forward.(leaning forward was the main trick with the Oculus rift)

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]

5. How incredible hard it is to spot aircraft and keep track of them in VR..

Well, it isnt going to be like the real world anyway, I guess. At least not yet.

I havent really played DCS on a flat sceen but i guess neither a flat screen give the same viewing distance. In some cases I guess a PC game could make it easier than in real life to spot the enemy due to the weather fenomenas you dont have in DCS, or that its always a black dot in-game but IRL it can be very much masked by the background.

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]I fi I just think that VR isn't mature enough clarity/performance wise for me, even having THE fastest gear on the market.

What hardware do you have ? Is it tuned properly(BIOS settings, drivers etc).

I actually think I have more fun sometimes by the computer doing VR racing or DCS -VR than being at work flying. I of course wouldnt choose VR only before work but I can look more forward to a gaming night than another sortie at work.

I had a Reverb and honestly I wasn't that impressed. It wasn't nearly as large of an image clarity/quality increase as I was expecting. And the image contrast and colors were very flat with those cheap LCD panels.

 

That and also the inferior inside out tracking combined with needing bright lights on during the night so the HMD can track properly, I sent it back.

 

I really need an Xtal..

Lol go for it, get two of em while you are at it.

:smilewink:

I had a Reverb and honestly I wasn't that impressed. It wasn't nearly as large of an image clarity/quality increase as I was expecting. And the image contrast and colors were very flat with those cheap LCD panels.

 

That and also the inferior inside out tracking combined with needing bright lights on during the night so the HMD can track properly, I sent it back.

 

I really need an Xtal..

I agree with all of that. The Reverb was not the quantum leap over the Vive Pro that I had hoped. However, it is better and I'll take any improvement I can get. And yes, the tracking is getting cumbersome as of late.

I'm almost tempted to shell out for an Xtal. Almost. But my main concern is that even the most high end machines are likely to struggle to run it. I assume the engineers who developed it likely had a $15K+ super tower computer to be able to run it. If not, and it will run on a current high end commercially available CPU and GPU setup, then that's very bad news for my checkbook.

I don’t really see what you mean By changing from 90 to 45fps. Ive got the Oculus Rift since > 3 years and Reverb since 3 months. Both of these do 90hz and when seeing 45fps in DCS its actually 90 new frames each second. I think ASW and reprojection work quite ok.

Do you suffer from ghosting? Or is do yo have stutter? Even if yuo have the best hardware, the settings in DCS can not be set on highest settings, that will get you stutter because the computer can not deliver 45fps(sometimes it say 45fps but its not smooth gaming, then you need to lower the settings to get it smooth if you get disturbed from it.)

I’d say, if you have a desent PC and take some time do perform the settings it should work ok. Might be a bit lower graphic settings than you’d expect but you’ll get smooth gaming.

 

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]

2. With VR being 1:1, having to completely turn my head around to check my six is tiresome. Being a real military helicopter pilot, I'm no longer 25 anymore and it wears on my already well worn neck. Having like the 1:2 head turn of TrackIR is a nice relief.

 

I’m also a active mil pilot, not that long from retirement. My neck is also worn and makes crackling sounds quite often. Still, the VR headset isnt really any weight on the head compared to the flying helmet+NVG+batterys+counterweight. As there is no vibrations or G-force at all I don’t have any problem and I think VR-gaming is more of a mobility training of the neck than A load making problems.

That said, I tried with a NVG counterwieght from work(they’re adaptable number of lead plates) with my oculus rift earlier, just to test if balancing the VR-headset on the head would make any difference and because I have four collegues that got herniated in the neck because of NVG flying in helos.

I didnt really notice any big difference from the counterweight(I think the VR headset is quite lightweight and beacuse I bought the HP Reverb I actuallt forgot about it. I will make a more permanent counterweight, probably 3d print a holder easy to attatch using my lead weights from work.

 

Did a lot of PC gaming 20-25 year ago, mostly car racing but also a little flying games.

What got me going again was VR, and for me, without VR I wouldn’t play.

I’m actually much more for VR racing but my gaming friends are more of flying nerds so in the end I seem to end up in DCS anyway.

 

 

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]

4. How hard it is to read dials and gauges in VR.

 

It is to some extrent with the oculus rift but with the Reverb I most of the stuff in cockpit without leaning forward.(leaning forward was the main trick with the Oculus rift)

 

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]

5. How incredible hard it is to spot aircraft and keep track of them in VR..

 

Well, it isnt going to be like the real world anyway, I guess. At least not yet.

I havent really played DCS on a flat sceen but i guess neither a flat screen give the same viewing distance. In some cases I guess a PC game could make it easier than in real life to spot the enemy due to the weather fenomenas you dont have in DCS, or that its always a black dot in-game but IRL it can be very much masked by the background.

 

QUOTE=Callsign.Vega;4271296]I fi I just think that VR isn't mature enough clarity/performance wise for me, even having THE fastest gear on the market.

 

What hardware do you have ? Is it tuned properly(BIOS settings, drivers etc).

 

I actually think I have more fun sometimes by the computer doing VR racing or DCS -VR than being at work flying. I of course wouldnt choose VR only before work but I can look more forward to a gaming night than another sortie at work.

1. Even though the FPS is interpolated from 90 to 45 FPS drops (motion smoothing), I think it screws with my brain because it's still not as smooth/natural feeling as the real 90 FPS. I have a Vive Pro which has OLED panels, so it should have less ghosting than LCD panels. Not really getting any stuttering, I did all the "VR tweaks" I could. Like I said in VR, DCS seems to be CPU limited and not GPU limited. I do hate turning down graphics settings cause it looks SO good on my 4K OLED with TrackIR. Another down-side to VR I forgot to mention, less graphics quality...

2. Oh cool what do you fly? I am Army over in Saudi Arabia teaching them how to fly my aircraft (Blackhawk). I am worried that VR could actually make the beginnings of arthritis in my neck (according to flight surgeon) even worse after all those NVG hours. You think it could help? I think I may give the HP Reverb a go again because it is a little bit lighter and less bulky than my Vive Pro. But then again my Pimax 8K-X is due in the summer...

5. Oh on a nice big 4K screen I think definitely easier to see enemy planes. I of course play with labels off as that is immersion killing.

I do tweaking to the umpteenth degree and have been building some of the worlds fastest gaming computers for about a decade and a half.

Stuff like this:

My current highly overclocked PC is a 5.4 GHz 9900K and a modified RTX Titan running at 2175 MHz. All liquid cooled obviously.

I agree with all of that. The Reverb was not the quantum leap over the Vive Pro that I had hoped. However, it is better and I'll take any improvement I can get. And yes, the tracking is getting cumbersome as of late.

 

I'm almost tempted to shell out for an Xtal. Almost. But my main concern is that even the most high end machines are likely to struggle to run it. I assume the engineers who developed it likely had a $15K+ super tower computer to be able to run it. If not, and it will run on a current high end commercially available CPU and GPU setup, then that's very bad news for my checkbook.

Do you remember how the motion blur of the Reverb LCD is compared to the OLED panels in the Vive Pro? I'm wondering if I would regret getting another HP Reverb or if I should just wait for my Pimax 8K-X to come in.

There is no special super tower computer that would run DCS faster in VR. It's the single main thread speed limit that is the problem. So something like my very fast CPU is going to run the game the fastest out of anything in the world, commercial or not.

Oh on a last note, is anyone coming from using something like a large gorgeous 4K TV like my LG OLED into VR? The large OLED 4K TV is pretty amazing, the cockpit is almost life-sized instruments in front of you. I only ask as obviously if you've only played DCS on a computer monitor before; VR is going to blow it out of the water. Now going from a large gorgeous TV, I think the VR "upgrade" may be a much smaller feeling upgrade.

My WOW :surprise: factor is gone but the wow is still there. Still find it very immersive.

It's like the first time on an airplane vs the 100th time. You get used to it.

Things that bother me in VR versus 2D:

- Performance.

- Readability.

- Doing a lot of things blindfolded (for that i bought a StreamDeck because i did see a video using it in VR which would cope with doing things "on search and feeling". Works nice but... you need SteamVR for that and me and Steam don't go well together).

I'm almost tempted to shell out for an Xtal. Almost. But my main concern is that even the most high end machines are likely to struggle to run it. I assume the engineers who developed it likely had a $15K+ super tower computer to be able to run it. If not, and it will run on a current high end commercially available CPU and GPU setup, then that's very bad news for my checkbook.

The way XTAL does what it does is by superior optics mostly. It doesn't need to render in higher res than native of the panels and still is very clear. Which means, you'll have MORE performance with it, not less.

I'd wait for the Reverb G2 and see what that brings. Also, the features the XTAL currently has will probably be standard in consumer VR equipment in 2-3 years form now. But if you can afford to shell out several grand for just a HMD in times of economic uncertainty, go for it!

1. Even though the FPS is interpolated from 90 to 45 FPS drops (motion smoothing), I think it screws with my brain because it's still not as smooth/natural feeling as the real 90 FPS. I have a Vive Pro which has OLED panels, so it should have less ghosting than LCD panels. Not really getting any stuttering, I did all the "VR tweaks" I could. Like I said in VR, DCS seems to be CPU limited and not GPU limited. I do hate turning down graphics settings cause it looks SO good on my 4K OLED with TrackIR. Another down-side to VR I forgot to mention, less graphics quality...

 

2. Oh cool what do you fly? I am Army over in Saudi Arabia teaching them how to fly my aircraft (Blackhawk). I am worried that VR could actually make the beginnings of arthritis in my neck (according to flight surgeon) even worse after all those NVG hours. You think it could help? I think I may give the HP Reverb a go again because it is a little bit lighter and less bulky than my Vive Pro. But then again my Pimax 8K-X is due in the summer...

 

5. Oh on a nice big 4K screen I think definitely easier to see enemy planes. I of course play with labels off as that is immersion killing.

 

I do tweaking to the umpteenth degree and have been building some of the worlds fastest gaming computers for about a decade and a half.

 

Stuff like this:

 

 

My current highly overclocked PC is a 5.4 GHz 9900K and a modified RTX Titan running at 2175 MHz. All liquid cooled obviously.

1. On the reprojection/ASW/motion smoothing I actually think the Reverb is really good( this is probable the same for all WMR headsets?). The ghosting I am talking about isnt mainly the LCD lag but the issue of the reprojected frame not being consistent with hte "real" following frame, in many cases causing a displaced pitcure with for example the frame rate counter showing dual frame rate numbers. This was much more pronounced with my Rift CV1 than it is with the Reverb. I am really happy about that part. I do not really suffer from the reprojection and sometimes I Think I do not notice if its true 90 fps or 45 reprojected during gaming.

I was planning to get the Pimax 8KX but as these wasnt available I got the Reverb as a in between step from the Rift CV1 waiting for the 8KX. Even Before getting the first VR I knew that what we really want is FOV closer to our own FOV. For this reason I have been looking at the Pimax for a long time, and actually as I enjoy racing games more then DCS I already could have gotten them as the main game (Asetto Corsa) apperently runs really well on the Pimax. For DCS, we know that performance could be a problem. I'm planning to get the 8KX as soon as they are out and when its known that the performance is good enough.

With my old rig ( i7@4.7ghz and GTX1080 + Rift CV1) I was CPU bound but with the new rig(down in the signature), the GPU Always have higher frame time = GPU bound. Its really easy to see with the fpsVR software.

2. I fly the NH90(I'm PF of the NH90 in my avatar). I've been using NVG since 20 years and the last ~10 as a main instructor on NVG flights so my neck is really "proven". I havent checked with our AME but some parts of our neck training program isnt that different from moving the head in game. The nimber of hours /year with VR headset is way lower than I would like due to working away or other family bussiness etc, so I guess VR isnt the main reason if I develop more serious neck issues.

Do you run your CPU on 5.4ghz on all cores ? As DCS only do mainly one core for graphics etc and that is the highest numbered physical core by default it would be needed to make sure that the cores that DCS is using is not lower clocked.

I can se that other with the same hardware use higher SS than I do(I'm at 120%) and also some settings higher. I do not Think that they actually have better harware performance than I do, but they might be less sensitive to non smooth gaming. Long time Home Cinema fanatic made me sensitive to all kinds of non smooth video.

I prefer smooth gaming before outstanding graphics. I can not enjoy gaming if the 'video' isnt smooth.

I cannot imagine flying in anything, but VR. The difference is "playing" vs. "flying". (Valve Index)

I - Just - Can't - Go - Back......

It is VR or nothing!

I tried to run VR on main setup and TrackIR on other location, and I just couldn't fly with the TrackIR anymore.

The TrackIR benefit is that you can have your printed manuals and actual kneeboard open, that's it.

Since the Rift S came out, I can read 99% of the instruments in the cockpit, some are slightly problematic but not "killing the game" like it was with Rift CV1!

If I would have been smart, I would have waited Rift S, Valve Index or something else. But that would have been few years. And probably wouldn't have interested DCS so much.

The Rift CV1 was bad for instruments, HUD's were not a problem, some major instruments were not a problem, but when you couldn't even read a speedometer in Su-25T or what was in A-10C cauges... It just was annoying if you couldn't tell from heart that what the needle position was suppose to mean.

Then when Oculus offered way to bring a any Windows window to VR, you didn't need anymore real kneeboards, manuals etc. You opened PDF to your PDF reader and then you brought that to VR. Position that PDF reader to your virtual knee and that's it!

Now you had your flight manual, maps, coordinates, radio frequencies etc in the cockpit.

Then another major change came, the virtual gloves became usable with Oculus Touch Controllers!

That was major thing. No more extra bindings, no more multipliers, no more extra button boxes etc!

I only bind the aircraft HOTAS to real HOTAS and that's it. If the HOTAS doesn't have something in the aircraft, then it doesn't exist as binding. Everything I do else in the cockpit is with the virtual hands. Immersion^10 by that alone!

So no more PC mouse, no more PC touchpad, no more keyboard... It is just the HOTAS, seat and VR. Simplified dramatically the whole "simpit". Learning curve got extremely shallow as you learn with first try that how to start-up aircrafts and so on. You put a Youtube video rolling on the knee and you follow that through and you get instant muscle memory that what you need to do in cockpit as you are literally moving your hands around the cockpit instead moving a mouse cursor and click things around.

In 2016 the Rift CV1 was such that you couldn't spot things well, you couldn't see is the A-10C turning on you or flying away. Is that a tank or a building? Yeah...

Then some update got major difference in the clarity, even CV1 became usable to spot things, but not to actually see the finer details.

Quick jump to Rift S and it is far more different than specs can ever tell you. Spotting became realistic on air targets, but ground targets are still in DCS unrealistically too easy! And then as mentioned the instruments became clear. No need to lean forward, no need to use any zoom (haven't used that for years), and the tracking is super easy.

I can check my six easily, with the same challenge that real pilots has, but just even easier because no G-forces. If someone can't turn their head, it is their own personal problem and physical limitation. And that is what makes some feel old while that is as well reason why young people do combat and not old one, a 40 year old can't just perform same combat operations that 20 years old can.

The VR as well teach new things, it teaches such things that TrackIR can't. It is to learn how to do the attack runs, how to use the weapons, sensors and fly with your own body limits etc. There is no more external camera, no more automatic tracking, no more many tiny assisting things that cheats the designs of the aircrafts.

The VR makes to value each designer ideas in their aircrafts. Why there are buttons in specific places, why they are colored specific way, why they operate in specific manner etc.

If someone is interested about the aviation and engineering and designs of the various aircrafts, trackIR and displays doesn't show it!

I am waiting next big thing, that is hand tracking. So that the Rift S cameras could track my index and thumb fingers tips and I could use those to push, flip and rotate instruments in cockpit. With little software trapetsy to visually indicate when you have "contact" and that's it.

As it is so great in VR to move hand to button, check that you have hand in correct place and then keep looking out and then in correct moment press the button without looking it. Now remove the controllers and let the hand to do it and it is faster and easier.

Only additional thing that I take as bonus is increased horizontal FOV. Just to add the immersion more effective in the cockpit. Not that there would be difficulties to look at six, as it is the aircraft cockpit design limitation only if something (like why you value F-16 bubble so much over example MiG-21Bis bad rearward visibility).

I take all other improvements for performance, increased definition etc gladly too, but not require them. Maybe a true HDR panels are next bigger thing.

But what comes to Immersion, VR totally still has it.

Now when the Corona virus has closed most places and you are required to stay at home etc. You can spend more time indoors than wanted. But now and then sitting on the flight chair, placing VR on and starting DCS, and two hours later when you take VR off, you are few moments smiling as you were all the time at home, even when you actually were just performing the night strike, fought your way in, delivered the bombs and got out back to home.

You weren't at home, you weren't you....

And that time spent in VR in DCS is way better than going to movies alone or watching something from TV on couch etc.

And when the VR game manages to create you that fantasy, let you live a while in it and doesn't remind you too bad way that it is just a game, it is all more than the price you paid for it all.

I have never been big car simulator fan, I have valued few driving games for their realism point but very very few. And I purchased few of the most hyped driving simulators in steam and tried those, and I just can't get that feeling in VR from those. Tried with a FF wheel, rejected that for a Steam Controller (gyroscope driving with controller) and I just get so bored to drive the same routes and same old same old... But flying, when you have been flying in real life (other than sitting as passenger), it is like getting a bicycle as a kid, now you could go anywhere! But instead in your town, you could go anywhere in your country or in the globe! You could just fly... It is little similar with the boats, you can just take off and go whereever.

If I would denied access to VR from now on, I would stop DCS in that moment. There is nothing in it to be used from desktop. Simply nothing.

The same thing is with the space simulators, you park your craft to some place and you just admire the cold space... Live the sci-fi story. You are in the space.... You are not at home...

And to do that computer screen.... LOL... Pathetic.

After almost 25 yrs of flat screen air combat flying. VR is the only way I will flight sim anymore. The advantages out weigh the disadvantages I think.

This!!! ... with a few more years!!!

I only open DCS in "2D" for ME or other admin tasks.

So, no, the effect does not wear off.

Only hoping for better resolution/FOV/performance for the ultimate experience.

1. On the reprojection/ASW/motion smoothing I actually think the Reverb is really good( this is probable the same for all WMR headsets?). The ghosting I am talking about isnt mainly the LCD lag but the issue of the reprojected frame not being consistent with hte "real" following frame, in many cases causing a displaced pitcure with for example the frame rate counter showing dual frame rate numbers. This was much more pronounced with my Rift CV1 than it is with the Reverb. I am really happy about that part. I do not really suffer from the reprojection and sometimes I Think I do not notice if its true 90 fps or 45 reprojected during gaming.

I was planning to get the Pimax 8KX but as these wasnt available I got the Reverb as a in between step from the Rift CV1 waiting for the 8KX. Even Before getting the first VR I knew that what we really want is FOV closer to our own FOV. For this reason I have been looking at the Pimax for a long time, and actually as I enjoy racing games more then DCS I already could have gotten them as the main game (Asetto Corsa) apperently runs really well on the Pimax. For DCS, we know that performance could be a problem. I'm planning to get the 8KX as soon as they are out and when its known that the performance is good enough.

 

With my old rig ( i7@4.7ghz and GTX1080 + Rift CV1) I was CPU bound but with the new rig(down in the signature), the GPU Always have higher frame time = GPU bound. Its really easy to see with the fpsVR software.

 

2. I fly the NH90(I'm PF of the NH90 in my avatar). I've been using NVG since 20 years and the last ~10 as a main instructor on NVG flights so my neck is really "proven". I havent checked with our AME but some parts of our neck training program isnt that different from moving the head in game. The nimber of hours /year with VR headset is way lower than I would like due to working away or other family bussiness etc, so I guess VR isnt the main reason if I develop more serious neck issues.

 

Do you run your CPU on 5.4ghz on all cores ? As DCS only do mainly one core for graphics etc and that is the highest numbered physical core by default it would be needed to make sure that the cores that DCS is using is not lower clocked.

 

I can se that other with the same hardware use higher SS than I do(I'm at 120%) and also some settings higher. I do not Think that they actually have better harware performance than I do, but they might be less sensitive to non smooth gaming. Long time Home Cinema fanatic made me sensitive to all kinds of non smooth video.

I prefer smooth gaming before outstanding graphics. I can not enjoy gaming if the 'video' isnt smooth.

Yup! All cores at 5.4 GHz. I don't do that single fast core nonsense. ;)

Ya I have my finger hovering over the buy button for another Reverb... I wonder if the 8K-X will just be too much for DCS for quite a while.

Yup! All cores at 5.4 GHz. I don't do that single fast core nonsense. ;)

 

Ya I have my finger hovering over the buy button for another Reverb... I wonder if the 8K-X will just be too much for DCS for quite a while.

All cores = thats good!

I will probably order 8KX anyway because Im confident it will work fine with Asetto corsa. I will probably wait with the order until consumers got them and I get peoples rating of them.

BTW, racing games isnt 3d oriented in the “whats behind” sentence. The head movement is much less then ACM in DCS.

And, wider FOV means less scanning with the head and reduces the need for twisting the head.

For the Reverb buy button, I think the lenses isnt that good on the Reverb: very small area where the picture is sharp. Still, I dont think there really is an better option today. Maybe better/upgrade lenses would be an good thing.

I finally got around to trying DCS with my Vive Pro that I modified with non-Fresnel lenses and displays I swapped in from an Odyssey+ that have the SDE minimization film on the OLED panels.

 

When I first started playing, that feeling of being "in" the cockpit was truly amazing and jaw dropping.

 

After a while though, does the honeymoon end? I swapped back to my really nice TrackIR5 and 55" 4K OLED setup and some huge deficiencies of DCS VR became apparent:

 

1. The constant swapping from 90 FPS to 45 FPS even on my EXTREMELY powerful PC got on my nerves.

2. With VR being 1:1, having to completely turn my head around to check my six is tiresome. Being a real military helicopter pilot, I'm no longer 25 anymore and it wears on my already well worn neck. Having like the 1:2 head turn of TrackIR is a nice relief.

3. Being able to see the real world, controls/keyboard/mouse, look out the window has its benefits. Less eye strain with regular setup.

4. How hard it is to read dials and gauges in VR.

5. How incredible hard it is to spot aircraft and keep track of them in VR.

 

I just think that VR isn't mature enough clarity/performance wise for me, even having THE fastest gear on the market.

 

I feel like my regular setup makes me more competitive and wears on me less, even though some of the "WoW" factors is removed.

 

Anyone else experience a diminished DCS VR Honeymoon?

If you are having issues reading dials then you need to switch to the HP Reverb or Pimax 8k+. I am not a youngster either and I have no issues reading instruments with the Reverb. As far as having to turn your head to see behind you is what I like about it honestly. Makes realize just how dynamic and physical flying fighters really is but without the risk of dying.:)

I agree that the clarity is not there yet and spotting can be difficult but flying on a 2D monitor feels like I am just playing an arcade game and I do not feel involved in the flying at all. I tried DCS out almost 10 years ago with the A10 and stopped after an hour because the realism of the sim was lost on me since I wanted to feel like im in the plane and now I do.

I simply could not go back to 2d flying or driving sims and lose that feeling VR gives me and how it tricks my brain into thinking Im there.

P.S. As far as the 8kx and DCS I just saw MRTV's review and he did hint that most peoples PC's are not going to be able to run it at full 8k res in DCS or other games due to the stress of 8k. Also you are limited to 75hz at 8k still which is also a deal breaker. I would just stick with the Reverb, but take it from me. I have recently been through 3 of them. I got one from Amazon and 2 from BH photo. The ones from BH were older ones made in Sept last year. They had issues with lower native res reported in steamvr than my one from Amazon which was made in Jan 2020. Also the ones from BH had more obvious SDE than the one I have from Amazon. I was going to return it since it came with a broken earphone but I decided to keep it when I got two duds in a row from BH which is not their fault. Order from Amazon if you can. I think they are getting more recent builds with better image quality.