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Old 11-05-2019, 02:06 PM   #31
viper2097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCatGoad View Post
Both the issues you gave as examples I have never had an issue with although you and others may have.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=249134
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=254368
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253877
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=229879
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=249959
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=240734
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=249958
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=250346

You don't need to dig deep to find them. Just fly the Harrier and use its systems.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:10 PM   #32
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I do. I don't get the tdc one for certain or some of the others. I didn't say it was perfect. I said it was worth half price. As per the OP's question.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:37 AM   #33
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Thanks so much for your answer. I got home determined to purchase it and......

It's back to regular price.

DOH!

Still, I know now, so if and when it is reduced again, I will be quicker off the mark.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:39 AM   #34
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...and they do fix them, as expected.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4092413

And they are just bugs and no showstoppers, and they are not different from what other modules experience, especially the ones still in Early Access, so I don't understand this extreme Razbam/Harrier bashing, unless it has something to do with you feeling ignored with your bug reports, although Razbam is working on the module, just not giving feedback and acknowledgement on every single bug reported.
Yes, it would be nice if they could spare the time to give more feedback, but on the other hand that time is better invested in fixing bugs and getting JDAM integrated.
My statement still stands, the AV-8B N/A Harrier II is worth it's money and though still in Early Access and having some bugs, you can have a lot of fun with it and enjoy a great air-to-ground platform, while it's still getting better and better.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis44UK View Post
Thanks so much for your answer. I got home determined to purchase it and......



It's back to regular price.



DOH!



Still, I know now, so if and when it is reduced again, I will be quicker off the mark.
Wags noticed a Steam sale being close, as well.
Since there is the option to move Steam keys to DCS, that may be an option:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3751441
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by shagrat View Post
...and they do fix them, as expected.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4092413
Are we talking about different modules / Devs? Did you ever took a look at the bug section?
Bugs are reported over years with not a single comment, neither a fix.
Bug reports get moved without any word to the resoveld section, and they are not fixed.
ONE(!) bug got now a response and probably a fix in the next update.
Once again, no bugfix, neither any kind of update since 4 months.

I like this comment very much: (Source)
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
At half price maybe, but not really a bargain imo. The thing is, if you just want surface level detail, bugs that exist for literally years and so forth then by all means. And honestly its fine for the first few months you own it since you are learning it. Then you start going deeper, reading the tac man and other docs and then you start to realize all is not well. Then you one flight you are like fuuuuuuu. Its missing xyz, and abc are bugged etc. And then some tosspot comes and tells you its EA or some bollocks, and you look at every other EA module that is getting fixed and updated faster/better. Then you rethink it or consign yourself to "it is what it is" but its certainly not what I would call "brilliant". YMMV...

Shagrat, if you are fine with the quality of the Harrier and the behavor of Razbam its also fine for me.
If not working core functions and CTDs as simple bugs, and not showstoppers for you, thats ok for me. But accept it that this is just your opinion - for me those are showstoppers.
But when I bring up hard facts, don't talk them away with a helpless phrase like "You don't get enough attention, thats why you are bitching at Razbam".
Grow up and discuss facts with facts, not with any personal opinions you think that you have about me.

Everyone else I would strongly advise to build his own opinion on facts, not phrases. The forum is full of both, they just need to be seperated.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:58 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper2097 View Post
Are we talking about different modules / Devs? Did you ever took a look at the bug section?
Bugs are reported over years with not a single comment, neither a fix.
Bug reports get moved without any word to the resoveld section, and they are not fixed.
ONE(!) bug got now a response and probably a fix in the next update.
Once again, no bugfix, neither any kind of update since 4 months.

I like this comment very much: (Source)



Shagrat, if you are fine with the quality of the Harrier and the behavor of Razbam its also fine for me.
If not working core functions and CTDs as simple bugs, and not showstoppers for you, thats ok for me. But accept it that this is just your opinion - for me those are showstoppers.
But when I bring up hard facts, don't talk them away with a helpless phrase like "You don't get enough attention, thats why you are bitching at Razbam".
Grow up and discuss facts with facts, not with any personal opinions you think that you have about me.

Everyone else I would strongly advise to build his own opinion on facts, not phrases. The forum is full of both, they just need to be seperated.
When you look at the changelogs of the last couple years you will notice, that virtually ALL modules including old and new ones get bugs fixed. Some of the fixed bugs on those modules were around for years, others surfaced multiple times.
It is nothing special to the Harrier or Razbam.
Modules like the C-101 are in Early Access far, far longer than the Harrier and that is not uncommon producing modules for DCS.
What are may be critical bugs to you are not "showstoppers" as they don't prevent the further development or fixing of the module. As I tried to explain, this is an important detail in the wording! Showstopper (related to development) stands for a problem preventing further work or fixing on a product! This is misleading, as you imply the Harrier can't be worked on, while these bugs are not fixed. The correct term is "critical bug" or "bug preventing the proper use of xyz", but they are per definition not showstoppers.
I personally did not encounter more than two or three CTD issues in the last months, and one wasn't even related to the Harrier.
I'll dig a bit deeper and try reproducing these issues and see if I was just lucky the last year... I hope in the end we all want to see Razbam succeed with the AV-8B N/A Harrier II module.
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Last edited by shagrat; 11-06-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:19 AM   #38
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Guys, showstopper is a colloquial term, and as such it lends itself to be used in an ambiguous manner. What I mean is that I don't think the both of your actually understands what the other means to say.

Viper, pick another expression that exactly express what you mean, or describe it such that your meaning can readily be understood. Then a conversation can be had over the critique expressed, and maybe a fruitful discussion can be had.
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:50 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Orso View Post
Guys, showstopper is a colloquial term, and as such it lends itself to be used in an ambiguous manner. What I mean is that I don't think the both of your actually understands what the other means to say.

Viper, pick another expression that exactly express what you mean, or describe it such that your meaning can readily be understood. Then a conversation can be had over the critique expressed, and maybe a fruitful discussion can be had.
Dude, you all speak German right (at least based on your location)? I mean I know there are differences between Hochdeutsch and Österreichisches Deutsch etc. (and I'm not gonna get the swiss into it) But really? Go drink some beer, chill out etc.

I think shagrat is missing the point. Yes all modules get fixes, some more than others. But Vipers complaint I think is valid IMO. It looks pretty bad when one day all the bugs just get moved over to the "Solved" section, and they haven't been (This happened). You can clearly see that people weren't too happy about it either. And you do have bugs that have been around for nearly 2 years without so much as "yeah we know" from razbam.

I mean I dunno, maybe the grand plan is to add all the functionality or halfway do it, and then go back and fix all the bugs and add the remaining parts. But that doesn't strike me as particularly effective way to do it.

PS: I'm still waiting on moving target compensation and wind compensation...
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:23 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by shagrat View Post
I'll dig a bit deeper and try reproducing these issues and see if I was just lucky the last year... I hope in the end we all want to see Razbam succeed with the AV-8B N/A Harrier II module.
Of course I would like to see Razbam succeed with the Harrier. I really like the Harrier, and honestly, after the cat, it is maybe together with the Viggen the module I fly the second most.
So I'm not bitching around because of lack of personal attention, I don't get tired of bitching around because I really fell in love with the Harrier and want it to work properly. Thats why I have a problem with the behavor of Razbam.
And as Harlikwin said, (I had the same experience) as long as you only scratch the surface, everything looks fine, but the more you like the aircraft, and the more you dig into it, the more you see what big mess it is. And then you try to help Razbam with provoding bug reports, take the time to search everything in the NATOPS, provide it to them on the silver tablet, and it just get ignored, nothing gets fixed, and instead another module is being developed.
Then there is the big promise that now everything will change, and everything will be finished and that it is worked full steam on the Harrier. Then, no update since 4 months.
So why should we, paying customers, not feel like they are playing tricks on us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shagrat View Post
What are may be critical bugs to you are not "showstoppers" as they don't prevent the further development or fixing of the module. As I tried to explain, this is an important detail in the wording! Showstopper (related to development) stands for a problem preventing further work or fixing on a product! This is misleading, as you imply the Harrier can't be worked on, while these bugs are not fixed. The correct term is "critical bug" or "bug preventing the proper use of xyz", but they are per definition not showstoppers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Orso View Post
Guys, showstopper is a colloquial term, and as such it lends itself to be used in an ambiguous manner. What I mean is that I don't think the both of your actually understands what the other means to say.

Viper, pick another expression that exactly express what you mean, or describe it such that your meaning can readily be understood. Then a conversation can be had over the critique expressed, and maybe a fruitful discussion can be had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
Dude, you all speak German right (at least based on your location)? I mean I know there are differences between Hochdeutsch and Österreichisches Deutsch etc. (and I'm not gonna get the swiss into it) But really? Go drink some beer, chill out etc.
Maybe we should clean up terms:
If I search the definition of "showstopper", google write me, that it is "an obstacle to further progress".
This is the exact definition for the bugs I'm talking about, which are disturbing the most and which are not getting any attention by Razbam.
In that context, a showstopper is a bug, that prevents me from finishing my sortie with success, if I would have been able to do it without the bug. Especially if there is no workaround.
(And workarounds shouls also be never an argument for something broken)

Example:
CTD at startup -> If I can't even get off the ground, I can't finish a sortie. Known since more then a month.
Laser stops working -> If I can't guide my bombs into the target anymore, my sortie has failed. Known since 1 1/2 years(!!!), not even a single comment on it.
TDC Can't be slewed with a Ministick -> If I can't slew the TDC to designate a target, how could I finish a sortie? Known since EA release, not a single comment on it.
Sidearm won't go off the rail -> If the Sidearm won't get off the rail, how should I be able to finish my sortie?

That's just some small examples for showstoppers. So should we also come to some examples for the *perfect* behavor of Razbam?
No "." when entereing a frequency the first time -> This is an annoying bug since I don't know when. One after the other says he is also faceing it. It is sooooo easy to replicate. Razbam is ignoring it, and probably not even taking a look at it without any trackfile. Any further questions stay unanswered.
Waypoints show as 0.0 and without bearing -> Would even consider to add this one to the showstoppers, however, known since nearly three months, not a single comment.
TPod point tracks and lasers while masked -> I would go as far to say that this is already some kind of cheating. Known since half a year. Not the slightest response.

And I won't even start to talk about those smaller bugs, which you find out when you start to really dig into the module, which also gets fully ignored by Razbam:
Wrong values in the VREST page or a stuck bitching betty

Or do you fly in VR? Maybe you have not yet expected that bug?
Belive me, I can't describe how annoying it is. Ignored since a 1/4 year.
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